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 Post subject: REAR BRAKE BACKING PLATES
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:01 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 604
Hello, Everyone!

I am interested in starting a discussion to determine if there is enough demand for manufacturing upgrade stainless steel brake backing plates for the rear disc brakes of KJ Jeep Liberty vehicles.

These brakes, where the main brakes are a standard rotor/caliper and the emergency brakes are a simple drum set up, are a commonly used design on many vehicles. They work well when things are new, but as these brakes age some fairly serious problems with the emergency brakes occur frequently.

I have had emergency brakes not engage properly, despite repeated application with the emergency brake lever. I have also had them not release properly, again despite my efforts to get them to release with repeated applications of the emergency brake lever. This has resulted in severely overheated brakes on several occasions.

Why is this occurring? Here is my theory, with help from an explanation by a technician I spoke to about this...

Unlike full drum brakes where the backing plate is very robust and designed to take the torque of the braking action, the rear brake backing plates on KJ Libertys and other vehicles that have this style rear disc brakes are very flimsy. This is because they are NOT designed to take the torque of the braking action, either by the regular disc brakes or the emergency brakes. The brake torque is handled by an iron arm that is bolted to the axle; it holds the caliper and has a boss that sticks through the brake backing plate to take the torque of the emergency brake shoes.

While the backing plate of our rear disc brakes does not take brake torque, it IS used to hold down all of the emergency brake components. This includes the brake shoes, the hold down hardware, the pins, and such. These backing plates are painted from the factory, but that paint does not last long. When that thin, flimsy carbon steel backing plate corrodes, it loses even more strength. Subsequently the holes for the pins and the pins themselves wear, and they can no longer hold the brake shoes in proper alignment. This is when the problems start... the emergency brakes will not fully engage, and they may not fully release.

These backing plates are not available to purchase separately - from ANYWHERE!! Therefore, when they corrode and are no longer any good, the Liberty owner has to purchase an entire rear brake assembly from the dealer at extremely high cost, even if all of the other components of his rear brakes are in great shape. I firmly believe that these backing plates were deliberately designed flimsy to engineer this scenario.

This is just one example of an auto manufacturer designing and making parts to artificially and unnecessarily increase service costs to the consumer. In the Liberty CRD, the engine thermostat assembly is another.

My solution to this problem is to develop a series of stamping dies, (at a cost estimated to be about $15,000.00 CDN), to cut and stamp out much heavier backing plates made of stainless steel. The end result would be a part that - outside of being crushed or folded in an accident - would NEVER fail.

Thoughts and feedback to this idea are gratefully accepted.

_________________
Jeffrey Allan Bauer
4J/1G Hi Performance Engine Thermostats
3727 - 117 Street N.W.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
T6J 1S5

Tel: 1-780-434-2324
Mobile: 1-780-844-0135
E-mail: INTCOMBUSTION2@hotmail.com


Last edited by TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK on Mon May 15, 2017 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: REAR BRAKE BACKING PLATES
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:21 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 531
Location: Central Oregon Coast
You've mentioned this before, and I've been waiting for you to get a set of backing plates to go off of :SOMBRERO:

Mine are currently in good shape but will be operating in a salty pacific coast environment, so I expect them to be trouble at some future point.

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 Post subject: Re: REAR BRAKE BACKING PLATES
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:27 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 604
GordnadoCRD wrote:
You've mentioned this before, and I've been waiting for you to get a set of backing plates to go off of :SOMBRERO:

Mine are currently in good shape but will be operating in a salty pacific coast environment, so I expect them to be trouble at some future point.



Yes, I have. But I believe I only posted the thread in "Liberty CRD...Love that Torque!!!". There must be 50 gas powered KJ Libertys for every CRD.

I just purchased a set of backing plates in very good condition, and am giving serious consideration to using them as a pattern for a set of stamping dies.

The problem is development costs of parts like this and the H.D.S. Model 001 are considerable, and I must be able to see a return on my investment. Just ask "tommudd" about his troubles trying to get people to really commit to a KJ rear bumper project. In a thread I started about 4 years ago about developing an aftermarket upgrade thermostat, (which Heather has since deleted because I am no longer an official vendor), half of the CRD LOSTJEEPS Members who SAID they would purchase a Model 001 simply disappeared when the true costs of development and production were borne out. That scenario can cause financial ruin. :cry:

I am trying on this broader forum to see how common this problem really is, and to see if I can get people interested in purchasing a set as a preventative step to emergency brake failure. I would also like to know if the rear brake assembly on KJ Libertys is also used on other vehicles.

Just like I have done with the Model 001, I want to make a backing plate that my customer would install once and have the problem permanently rectified. Curious gas powered KJ Liberty owners wanting to know about my commitment to quality only need to ask about the quality of my thermostat assembly from one of my customers.

_________________
Jeffrey Allan Bauer
4J/1G Hi Performance Engine Thermostats
3727 - 117 Street N.W.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
T6J 1S5

Tel: 1-780-434-2324
Mobile: 1-780-844-0135
E-mail: INTCOMBUSTION2@hotmail.com


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 Post subject: Re: REAR BRAKE BACKING PLATES
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:29 am
Posts: 6011
Location: Hillsborough, NC / Petersburg VA
the issue i see, and its just a generalized broad perspective look at the situation

the replacement plates that include new e-brake hardware , shoes, flanges, etc run about 80-100 dollars per side
while i totally understand the appeal of an upgraded backing plate so that you dont have to spend an extra (what amounts to probably) about 70 dollars per side in order to replace the backing plates

i figure theyre charging about 20 bucks for the backing plates, 80 bucks for the e-brake hardware and shoes etc

you'd have to sell a ton of upgraded backing plates to make up for the cost of the stamp and die

so at least for me, replacing the e-brake backing & entire hardware at 80-100 dollars per side every 10-15 years isn't a huge deal for me- that said, if there were upgraded backing plates for 20-25 dollars each, i'd probably buy a set - that said.. the backing plates - based on the cost of the stamp and die, would end up being significantly more expensive than the current 80-100 dollars per side cost without a full bore operation marketing to rockauto and every other parts distributor, and i just dont see that there's a volume market for just the plates without forming a co-op with a manufacturer and generating a "problem solver" line of parts that end up being the equivalent price of the current OEM style backing plate & brake hardware that are currently available

and i still don't see it equalizing at an accounting level due to lack of volume need

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 Post subject: Re: REAR BRAKE BACKING PLATES
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 9:27 am 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:29 pm
Posts: 604
JeepinJarhead03 wrote:
the issue i see, and its just a generalized broad perspective look at the situation

the replacement plates that include new e-brake hardware , shoes, flanges, etc run about 80-100 dollars per side
while i totally understand the appeal of an upgraded backing plate so that you dont have to spend an extra (what amounts to probably) about 70 dollars per side in order to replace the backing plates

i figure theyre charging about 20 bucks for the backing plates, 80 bucks for the e-brake hardware and shoes etc

you'd have to sell a ton of upgraded backing plates to make up for the cost of the stamp and die

so at least for me, replacing the e-brake backing & entire hardware at 80-100 dollars per side every 10-15 years isn't a huge deal for me- that said, if there were upgraded backing plates for 20-25 dollars each, i'd probably buy a set - that said.. the backing plates - based on the cost of the stamp and die, would end up being significantly more expensive than the current 80-100 dollars per side cost without a full bore operation marketing to rockauto and every other parts distributor, and i just dont see that there's a volume market for just the plates without forming a co-op with a manufacturer and generating a "problem solver" line of parts that end up being the equivalent price of the current OEM style backing plate & brake hardware that are currently available

and i still don't see it equalizing at an accounting level due to lack of volume need



From what I and other LOSTJEEPS members have discovered, the backing plates are only available through your friendly local stealership as part of a rear brake assembly. The price they charge for this assembly will give you a heart attack; the last time I checked at a Canadian FCA dealer, they cost $579.00 CDN before taxes for each side.

If you have some kind of source where you can get this assembly for about $100.00 USD per side, P-L-E-A-S-E share it with the rest of us.

_________________
Jeffrey Allan Bauer
4J/1G Hi Performance Engine Thermostats
3727 - 117 Street N.W.
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
T6J 1S5

Tel: 1-780-434-2324
Mobile: 1-780-844-0135
E-mail: INTCOMBUSTION2@hotmail.com


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