It is currently Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:03 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:29 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Hi all,

I got 2006 Liberty CRD Limited with stock towing package and suspension. Planning to tow marginally heavy trailer - it is 5000lb nominal gross weight, but I suspect it is more like 6000+ (will weigh given the opportunity). Currently unable to tow faster than 45mph, it starts swaying. Surely the first thing to check is the total weight of the trailer and the tongue weight. However even with the tongue weight set to recommended 10-15 % and even nominal gross trailer weight of 5000lb, the tongue weight ends up being 500-750lb. I suspect this might require additional modifications. Question to whoever had experience towing something similar, what was your preferred arrangement: weight distribution hitch, helper air bags in the rear or both (or neither)?

Thanks in advance,
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:34 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jk9H5AB4lM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd-hUX8memY

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:10 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Thanks Gordnado, I have seen similar videos and like I wrote, I am fully aware of the importance of correct load distribution on the trailer, but what I am towing is a boat, so my options in that respect are limited. If I find the existing distribution to be way off, I plan to move the trailer axles to correct that, but that is not a one weekend project. My question was, with tongue weight set to recommended percentage of total trailer weight, it might result in substantial sag of the vehicle rear end. What is the real world experience of dealing with that?

Thanks,
A.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:48 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 541
if you get excessive sag, you'll need to either upgrade your springs to carry the weight, go with helper springs on the shocks (monroe), or a set of air bags. I can only speak to the first, as that's what I did.

based on your posts, is this a real-world problem? As in, are you actually experiencing trailer sway? Or are you still in the theoretical phase of your towing experiment. I'm not versed in boats, but I would think they'd be fairly balanced by design, to keep them from sitting funny in the water. That would leave how the boat sits on your trailer; if there's more boat aft of the axles than fore, you're going to have a problem. If that's the case, can you add ballast to the front of the boat or trailer?

When I first started towing a car with my jeep, I spent a bit of time working out the best position of the car on the trailer, in relation to all the extra goodies I was carrying, both on the trailer and in the back of the jeep. Moving the car only an inch fore or aft caused a noticeable change in trailer performance and characteristics.

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7L 6spd
  • MOABs with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure With Kevlar 245/70R16
  • JBA UCA 4.5
  • OME 790/948/90009/N32
  • Western Suburbanite 7'4" plow
  • DetoursUSA Backbone
  • HF 12k# winch
[SIZE="1"]WTB: project liberty near N.NJ. stick shift, 4x4, working motor optional, CHEAP[/SIZE]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:50 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 4835
Location: Central GA
Most boat trailers are designed to be tongue heavy with the axles placed further back under the trailer due to most of a boats weight is in the rear due to the motor being in the back. (see picture below)
Most utility and camping trailers have the axles placed closer to the center of the trailers frame.

I have owned three and still have two and they were all built this exact way. But if you are experiencing sway, you certainly need to make sure that the tongue weight is correct.
All boat trailers that I have ever pulled always pulled very stable due to their long tongue design.

Also for swaying, there is a neat little device called an anti-sway bar that works wonders. Camping World and most trailer supply places sale them. :google:
I put one on my 30 foot camping trailer and it made a big difference with sway when passing or being passed by semi's on the interstate. :D

ImageImage

_________________
Proud Supporting Vendor of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:

Ironman Springs/Bilstein's
Yeti Stg4 MaxTune
Weeks ElbowKit/BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NOcat
V6Airbox
GM11 bld fan/NAPA HDclutch
IronrockArm/Cust.Mount
DodgeCummins,5"exh. Viair, Huge K&N


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:28 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
sota wrote:
if you get excessive sag, you'll need to either upgrade your springs to carry the weight, go with helper springs on the shocks (monroe), or a set of air bags. I can only speak to the first, as that's what I did.

based on your posts, is this a real-world problem? As in, are you actually experiencing trailer sway? Or are you still in the theoretical phase of your towing experiment. I'm not versed in boats, but I would think they'd be fairly balanced by design, to keep them from sitting funny in the water. That would leave how the boat sits on your trailer; if there's more boat aft of the axles than fore, you're going to have a problem. If that's the case, can you add ballast to the front of the boat or trailer?

When I first started towing a car with my jeep, I spent a bit of time working out the best position of the car on the trailer, in relation to all the extra goodies I was carrying, both on the trailer and in the back of the jeep. Moving the car only an inch fore or aft caused a noticeable change in trailer performance and characteristics.


Hi, thanks for your thoughts! Upgrading springs is certainly an option, however how is your ride without a trailer? Not too rough? I am contemplating set of air bags as those offer adjustment.

Yes, mine is a real world problem! I have towed my boat for about 100 miles and was unable to exceed 45mph or so, due to trailer sway starting to develop if I go any faster. Adding ballast is not an option as the boat is already marginally heavy. This is not very well designed boat-trailer combination and it is a known deficiency (I just happen to love the boat too much :) ). The only effective way of changing the weight distribution is to shift the position of the trailer axles andf it has been done by others with success. However this will require the modification of the brake lines of the trailer surge brakes. and it is quite a bit of a job.

Reason I was asking my original question: having 15% of the trailer 5000lb weight on the tongue may eliminate sway but will make it too much of a load for the Jeep rear end. Having close to 10% on the tongue may reduce the load on the Jeep, but may not fully eliminate the sway. In the former case I anticipate the need to strengthen the rear suspension, in the latter to install weight distribution hitch with sway control.

Hence I would really appreciate a feedback from someone who had experience towing comparable load.

Thanks!
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:32 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Ok I don't know what they are called, but I remember some sort of load assist device that worked to transfer some trailer tongue weight to the forward axle of the towing vehicle. I may be in left field here, but I recall folks towing travel trailers or "caravans" as the subjects of the Sovereign call them, and I believe they somehow corrected this situation a bit.

Edit . Found... something. Don't know if it's helpful.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/towing-weight-distribution-systems.htm

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:38 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
WWDiesel wrote:
Most boat trailers are designed to be tongue heavy with the axles placed further back under the trailer due to most of a boats weight is in the rear due to the motor being in the back. (see picture below)
Most utility and camping trailers have the axles placed closer to the center of the trailers frame.

I have owned three and still have two and they were all built this exact way. But if you are experiencing sway, you certainly need to make sure that the tongue weight is correct.
All boat trailers that I have ever pulled always pulled very stable due to their long tongue design.

Also for swaying, there is a neat little device called an anti-sway bar that works wonders. Camping World and most trailer supply places sale them. :google:
I put one on my 30 foot camping trailer and it made a big difference with sway when passing or being passed by semi's on the interstate. :D

ImageImage


Thanks WWD! I am fully aware of anti-sway devices, but it was my impression that they always come with some sort of weight distribution hitch. Are you saying one can have just a sway bar alone? My trailer has a long "pole" tongue as opposed to more conventional A-frame and as far as I understand the sway bar has to be mounted at some angle in respect to the rig axis of symmetry, no?

And like I said, the boat I am dealing with originally had sub-optimal trailer coming with it. The boat is a sailing trimaran and the trailer is heavily modified Venture - I guess not heavily enough though.

Cheers,
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:44 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Ok I don't know what they are called, but I remember some sort of load assist device that worked to transfer some trailer tongue weight to the forward axle of the towing vehicle. I may be in left field here, but I recall folks towing travel trailers or "caravans" as the subjects of the Sovereign call them, and I believe they somehow corrected this situation a bit.

Edit . Found... something. Don't know if it's helpful.
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/towing-weight-distribution-systems.htm


Thanks Gordnado! Yes, I am looking at e-trailer site, they have plenty of weight distribution hitches, but they can easily be like $500-$700. Just trying to figure out if I really need one :) Air bags are like $70 - $100, big difference :)

Cheers,
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:56 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Is your trimaran situated flat or stood up partially on edge. If on edge (at an angle) you may have issues with weight distribution at height as well. (accel and decel.)

Like this?
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.f-boat.com%2FMedia2%2FF-22Holland%2FF-22Mennotrailer.jpg&f=1

Or a smaller one tipped?

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Last edited by GordnadoCRD on Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:00 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Is your trimaran situated flat or stood up partially on edge. If on edge (at an angle) you may have issues with weight distribution at height as well. (accel and decel.)


No, fortunately it is sitting pretty flat.
A.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:04 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Anyone towing close to 5,000lb with Liberty, do you use any additional equipment, like upgraded springs/airbags or weight distribution / anti-sway devices?

Thanks in advance!
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:52 pm 
Offline
LOST Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 541
you can see the suspension setup I'm running in my sig.
I will be honest, it rides very "truck" like, mostly because of the diesel springs up front. I chose that deliberately based on the fact I want to run a winch up front soon*, and I plow with this jeep in the winter (500#ea added, front and rear). If I were to do it again AND I wasn't plowing, I'd go at least 1 step down on the front and rear, and if I still needed the extra support when I'd tow I'd either go with helper springs on the shocks, or air bags (in that order of attempt.) i can't speak to how it'll work with any of those changes though.
I'm hoping that when I get around to adding all the under armor plates soon* it'll ride a little less stiff with the added weight.

* god willing, the creek don't rise, I can get a break from fixing everything else seemingly all the darn time, and the money gods shine upon me.

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7L 6spd
  • MOABs with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure With Kevlar 245/70R16
  • JBA UCA 4.5
  • OME 790/948/90009/N32
  • Western Suburbanite 7'4" plow
  • DetoursUSA Backbone
  • HF 12k# winch
[SIZE="1"]WTB: project liberty near N.NJ. stick shift, 4x4, working motor optional, CHEAP[/SIZE]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:24 pm 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Bump... Guess no one is towing anything heavy anymore :)
A.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:51 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I have a 24 foot travel trailer from 196? I will have to tow shortly. Kind of curious myself, as to how it work.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:36 pm 
Offline
LOST Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 541
Image

Image

been done.

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7L 6spd
  • MOABs with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure With Kevlar 245/70R16
  • JBA UCA 4.5
  • OME 790/948/90009/N32
  • Western Suburbanite 7'4" plow
  • DetoursUSA Backbone
  • HF 12k# winch
[SIZE="1"]WTB: project liberty near N.NJ. stick shift, 4x4, working motor optional, CHEAP[/SIZE]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:11 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Thanks sota, this is certainly encouraging! However was there any weight distribution hitch in use? Jeeps look pretty much level on both pictures.
Cheers,
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:43 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:44 pm
Posts: 541
nope. I worked very hard at getting the load balance just right. with a car trailer it's pretty easy; just move the car fore and aft an inch or so at a time. what I found worked best was figuring out where the fore-aft center-of-gravity is for the car, (not too hard with a floor jack; just lift from points along the frame rail and see when both front and rear wheels come up at the same time) position that over the centerline of the tandem axles, then load up the rest of my kit ahead of the car.

_________________
2007 Jeep Liberty Sport 4x4 3.7L 6spd
  • MOABs with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure With Kevlar 245/70R16
  • JBA UCA 4.5
  • OME 790/948/90009/N32
  • Western Suburbanite 7'4" plow
  • DetoursUSA Backbone
  • HF 12k# winch
[SIZE="1"]WTB: project liberty near N.NJ. stick shift, 4x4, working motor optional, CHEAP[/SIZE]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Towing marginal load
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:45 am 
Offline
LOST Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 pm
Posts: 120
Great, thanks! Neat way to figure the center of mass! I should be able to do the same with my boat on a trailer, except that for achieving proper balance instead of shifting the load I would need to shift the trailer wheels :)

Cheers,
Alex

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited, GDE ECO tune, Provent 200, 2-stage Weeks kit, ARP studs,
Aussie fan shroud, Trans drain plug


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com