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 Post subject: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:22 am 
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Posts: 7
Good morning everyone

I'm from SA and I have a Liberty 3.7 V6 and a Liberty 2.8 CRD

The CRD ran fine but one morning it refused to cranck, I bypassed the starter relay and it crancks fine but no start. The small light on the dash did not go off, I swapped the keyes and now the idiot light went off but still no crancking and when bypassed it crancks but no starting. Tested all power points on starter relay and ASD relay, all relevant points tested 13v, when I switch the key on and replace ASD relay I can hear it click and everything switch on in the engine bay but still not crancking from key. When I earth point 85 on the starter relay I can cranck the motor from the ignition but it dont start and give me fuel pressure fault. Also it seems as if the clutch switch has no effect clutch pressed or not, point 86 on the starter relay gets 13v. Is there some other component that is supposed to switch on the ecm?
The wire on point 85 from starter relay goes to the small plug on the ECM so I assume the ECM are supposed to earth the relay for the starter but it doesnt. So I was thinking the ECM is shot but I can read fault codes and it only gives me an age old fault off vacuum relay or something, a small black box with vacuum pipes on top off the motor. I have no access to dealers or fancy faultcode readers, only my trusted fault reader that is not the best on the market. Can any one please help I've been struggling 2 months now.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:24 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
Welcome to Lost!

What part of SA are you in?
I am in White River Mpumalanga and have a 2002 2.5L CRD 5 speed manual.

Firstly the Jeep Dealers here have always been pretty useless but lately with the re-structured Dealer setup they are now Totally Useless!
When my Jeep was still fairly new the Battery Light came ON on the dashboard...Owners manual says "Alternator not Charging"
I tested the Alternator output and it was fine so I took the Jeep to an AutoElectrician
who confirmed that the Alternator was OK and I should go to the Dealers and ask them to reset the Battery Light.
I went to the Dealer and asked them to just reset the error.
About an hour later I sneaked into the Workshop area where I saw some youngster looking very confused and the main Wiring Harness in the engine bay totally undone and all over the place while he tried to use the Jeep DBIII Reader to work out what was wrong!
He stated "I think it is the ECM but we do not have one in stock and the 2 CRDs in the bays next to you in for a Service have the wrong part numbers of ECM"
So if you take your Jeep to the Dealers for a Service it may get returned to you with a faulty ECM that they swapped out!
I told them to wrap it all up and drove it home.

Enough of the complaining about the Dealers....let's try fix your Jeep!

I found Jeep Service Manuals here on this site and was able to fix my problem...fortunately I know my Electronics!

Download the 2006 Service Manual here.....section 8W has the wiring diagrams.
If you can get the Dealers to at least read-out the stored Cel Codes...you can use the bottom of the Manuals Index Page to go to the relevant section for that code.

The Manuals will also give you an explanation of how the SKREEM anti-theft system works. Basically the Red LED for the SKEEM system will stay lit if the ECM is happy with the key code but may let the engine turn over but not fire if the ECM has not received confirmation from the ASD Relay that it...the ASD Relay...has energised.

I had this exact problem due to a wire coming off the ASD Relay being broken.
If the RED LED flashes then the SKEES Code was not recognised.

So firstly buy yourself a cheap Digital Multimeter....does not have to be a fancy model as the cheap ones are accurate enough but must be able to read Resistance, DC Voltage, AC Voltage and Current up to 10 Amps Fused.

Then download the complete 2006 Service Manuals here:

http://www.colorado4wheel.com/manuals/Jeep/KJ/

Once you have the Manuals and a Multimeter I can assist you in tracing down your problem hopefully......the "not cranking" error should be easy to find...if not a wiring issue it could be the well known "Starter Actuator Pin Broken Problem"

First check Fuse #8 40A in the relay box under the hood is OK.

Remove the Starter Relay and you will see that the Female Pins inside the empty socket has pins 30 and 87 among others. With the gearbox in Neutral and the key in the ignition slot and turned "ON" and clutch depressed.....briefly jumper Female Pins 30 and 87 together...the Jeep should turn over and hopefully start.

Get back to me on the result of this above Jumping Out procedure and we will take it from there! :wink:

_________________
2002 Export CRD


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:34 pm 
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This is a visual on how to jumper the two connectors #30 (10) & #87 (9) with the starter relay removed / unplugged.
(Place Ignition switch in the on / run position, transmission in Park or Neutral, with Emergency Brake ON)

Results of this test will define how to proceed to the next diagnostic test. :POPCORN:

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:13 am 
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Hi Billibop, Im in Tzaneen. Thanks for the reply, first I have fairly knowledge of electrical fault finding on trucks, I have a multimeter and downloaded the diagrams thank you.
I jumped the starter relay and the engine turns over just fine. I have traced the power supply 30 to the relay 100%. The signal from the ignition switch on the relay 86 is 13 V when I turn the ignition to start position. The connection between the relay 87 and started is good, when jumped between 30 and 87 it turns over. But on 85 where ground is supposed to be there are no continuity to ground. When I earth 85 the motor turns over with the ignition switch but dont start.
85 runs from the relay to the ECM plug no 2 (small one) and has continuity.
It seems as if the ECM are supposed to supply the ground when switched on but it doesn't.

Only dealers close by are Merc and there are only 1 or 2 autolecs that can connect and read codes at about 3k a shot. But if you dont leave the vehicle for them to fix they are not keen on helping.

Thanks again.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:48 am
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
I presume this is an automatic?

Try it in Park and Neutral.

Is the red LED on the Cluster ON permanently or flashing?

If either of the two then you have a SKREEM problem ie. the code on the chipped keys is not being acknowledged by the ECM! :?

I think to be on the safe side you need to check that the Actuator Pin Assembly has not broken...a common problem! This is what turns the Ignition Switch when you turn the key.

Remove the two plastic covers over the steering column.

You will see the Ignition Switch attached to the Actuator Pin Assembly by single female Allen Screw.

This is a "Security Screw" in that the Male Allen key used to undo this Screw has a hole drilled down its center. My 2002 CRD does not have this feature and uses a normal Male Allen driver.

Try undo this screw with a Vice Grips or whatever works and pull the ignition key off from the Actuator Pin Assembly...if you see bits of debris falling down then the Pin Assembly is broken or in the process of breaking.

With the ignition key in the slot, in Neutral and in Park, use a small flat screwdriver to rotate the ignition switch all the way to see if it starts! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:00 am 
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Billybob wrote:
I presume this is an automatic?
Try it in Park and Neutral.
Is the red LED on the Cluster ON permanently or flashing?
If either of the two then you have a SKREEM problem ie. the code on the chipped keys is not being acknowledged by the ECM! :?
I think to be on the safe side you need to check that the Actuator Pin Assembly has not broken...a common problem! This is what turns the Ignition Switch when you turn the key.
Remove the two plastic covers over the steering column.
You will see the Ignition Switch attached to the Actuator Pin Assembly by single female Allen Screw.
This is a "Security Screw" in that the Male Allen key used to undo this Screw has a hole drilled down its center. My 2002 CRD does not have this feature and uses a normal Male Allen driver.Try undo this screw with a Vice Grips or whatever works and pull the ignition key off from the Actuator Pin Assembly...if you see bits of debris falling down then the Pin Assembly is broken or in the process of breaking.
With the ignition key in the slot, in Neutral and in Park, use a small flat screwdriver to rotate the ignition switch all the way to see if it starts! :wink:

Landyfan wrote:
The connection between the relay 87 and started is good, when jumped between 30 and 87 it turns over. But on 85 where ground is supposed to be there are no continuity to ground. When I earth 85 the motor turns over with the ignition switch but dont start.

Billy, he said the engine spins over with the ignition switch if he grounds pin 85 on the starter relay. That rules out ignition switch actuator problems.
If the ECM is not grounding pin 85 when you turn the ign. switch to the start position; the ECM is not getting one of the required signals it must receive to start the engine.
This can be gear shift position Park/Neutral, clutch pedal switch if it is a straight shift.
Not starting when you spin the engine over with the starter is another whole list of things that the ECM must be happy with to allow the engine to start. :banghead:
Without a logic tree for the ECM inputs, diagnosing any computer logic problem gets very hard! :dizzy: :furious:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:48 am
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
I agree with you as regards the Actuator Pin assembly but I have seen posts over the years where a crumbling Pin Assembly causes weird starting problems.

Most likely a wiring problem at the ECM connector....I will advise the OP on how to measure for a broken/shorted wire! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:19 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
@Landyfan....is this an automatic or manual CRD?

Have you tried re-plugging the connectors on the ECM...with battery disconnected?

We can go through the wiring diagrams once we know if its an auto or manual! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:36 am 
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Hi Billibob, hi Dizzy

This is a manual transm. If I press the clutch or not the motor does not cranck with ign switch. But when I earth point 85 on the relay I can cranck the motor with the ign switch if I press the clutch or not.
The manual said that if I put the vehicle in 4x4 low range the clutch switch is overrided and you can start with out pressing the clutch, however this also does not work.

I disconnected the battery and then removed the plugs on the ECM cleaned the terminals with electric spray, no corrosion or dirt on the terminals from the start but I cleaned it anyway. Still no joy, she refuse to turn, like Dizzy said there are some signal missing to activate the ECM.

With one key the red light on the dash stays on but if I use my spare key the light goes off. When I turn the ignition the radio goes off but not the lights on the dash. When I release the key the radio comes back on again.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:28 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
OK..these wiring diagrams are the cause of my near baldness!!

If you have downloaded the 2006 Jeep KJ Service Manuals you will use Section 8w for the wiring diagrams. The Index section will tell you to go to Page 8W-21-3 for the M/T Starting System.

Unfortunately for the Diesel this Page 8W-21-3 does not show the Clutch Upstop Switch Signal connection!
I realize that putting the Transmission into Low is supposed to let you turn over the motor without using the clutch and you did state that this did not work!

Then go to Page 9 - 1101 for the diagram of the ECM input and Output wires that we are interested in....section 9W gives a larger picture but no Diesel Switch wiring.

I realize that you did try starting with Transmission in Low and that did not work but do the test of the switch as below in any case...we can test the outputs from the ECM to the ASD Relay and Starter Relay while operating the clutch switch.

If you go to Section 6-20 it gives you a description as to how the switch works...it tells you to measure the wire coming off the switch with an Ohmeter---Switch Depressed should be Continuity and Switch in a good mood ie. Released, should be No Continuity! :wink:

So first check these wires and try shorting them out....make sure you are in Neutral!!
The Wiring Diagram that does show the wiring for this switch is on Page 9 - 1101.

Make sure Fuses #6, #28, #18, #14, #26 and #8 are OK.

Now to test signals. The female pins on the ECM are pretty delicate so avoid putting a meter probe into them. I normally tape small pins or needles to the meter probes so that I can piece the insulation of the wires to make measurements...a dab of glue will cover up the holes when finished.

Place one lead on ground and test if pin #86 on the Starter Relay has +12 volts on it when Turning Ignition key to START.....should be there if Ignition Switch is OK and Fuse#28 is OK!

Place one meter lead on +12 volts right at the battery terminal and the other lead on pin #85 and turn Ignition key...supposed to show -12 volts ie. the ECM has supplied Ground to Pin #85.
Do the two above actions while operating the Clutch Switch and the Ignition to Start.

I believe at this stage the ASD Relay should activate....do the same measurements on the ASD Relay to see if it is energizing and supplying voltage at pin #87.

I had a problem on My CRD with the ASD Relay not energizing due to a broken wire...you can remove the Cover on the ASD Relay so you can watch it to see if it energizes!

If all the expected readings are there....we need to trace them down to where they enter the ECM...may be a bad connector or broken/shorted wire between the ECM and the two Relays. This is when you need to piece the wires just as they come out of the ECM C2 Connector with respect to Ground in some case and to +12 Volts in other cases....try both Ignition Keys!
If there is voltage/ground missing somewhere...isolate the leads by disconnecting leads C2 and relevant fuses and measure the ends end to end for continuity and seeing as they should be floating in mid air....no shorts to Ground!

A decent Code Reader or the Agent's Code Reader could pullout Error Codes.

If you get some codes the bottom of the Index Page has the DTC Index...find those codes in the list and go to the page called out.

The newer CRDs I believe Code Readers are available...our USA friends may be able to help you. The Export 2002/3 CRDs like I have does not have a Code Reader available...only Dealer Reader can pull the codes. This is because the 2002/3 uses only a PCI Bus and no Code Readers are available.

On my Export 2002 CRD I could only pull some codes out using the "Key" method but that does not work on the 2006 CRD! :(

Edit to Add: This is probably a SKIM problem ie. the Anti Theft.

Section 8J-135 and 8J-69 gives a description of how the system works.

They do state that to erase a SKIM light you must perform the Cluster Check Procedure!

Try this with both keys:

Firmly press in and hold the Odometer Reset plunger on the Cluster.
While holding this in, turn ignition ON but not to the Start position.....the lamps will flash On and Off a few times and all the gauges will swing back and forth.

This is not a test of the Cluster but merely a way to check all LEDs and Gauges are working and apparently it should clear any Red Led for the Skim system.
The test ends with some numerals and digits displayed....this is just the Firmware level of the Cluster.

Have fun! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:40 pm 
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Thanks Billibop I will go try all these tests, depending on loadshedding otherwise I will try over the weekend daily job permits.
I studied the wiring diagrams, it seems as if the 2005 CRD are very close to the diesel version I have if Im not mistaken but I will go and check the pages and tests you mentioned
Have a safe and pleasant time until I bother you again.


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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:24 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
What year CRD do you have?

You post title states "2006 Liberty 2.6 CRD"

This is very different to the 2005 CRD!

Make sure you download the correct Manuals for Your CRD!

The colors of the Wiring changes between years...for instance...the 2006 CRD manual page 8W-31-11 shows the wires going down to the TCM from left to right as:

YL/TN ie Yellow main Color with Tan stripe Color.
DG/YL ie. Dark Green with Yellow Stripe.

Etc.

I am too lazy to look up these wires in the 2005 Manual but most colors will be different! :wink:

If you poke through the wires with a pin to measure continuity or a short you need to know the Color from end to end. The Wires usually keep the same color for that circuit even if it goes through various Connectors and Splices.

Check that the cover of your ECM is grounded....ground it yourself to a engine/chassis point if needed.....my ECM had a suspect ground so I fixed it by grounding it to the engine bay bodywork.
The Wiring Section 8W shows at the end of the Index where most Ground points are...sometimes with diagrams.
If you go to the Forum "Liberty CRD..Love that Torque" there is a recent post from WWdiesal showing where the Grounds for the 2006 CRD ECM are located albeit for an Automatic and LHD as apposed to your RHD Manual!
Well worth looking through this Forum often as it covers the CRDs very well!

The 2005 has a FCM Module sitting in the center of the Engine Bay which no other year KJ has so the wiring is very different! :shock:

If you are not sure what year your CRD is...check the wire colors and check if you have the FCM or not!, there is a way to check what year your CRD is by checking the numbers on the left of the windscreen....the Parts Fiche Manuals will tell you how to decode this stream of numbers.....the USA guys have Sites that decode this VIN number but I am not sure if they cover our Export Numbers! :?

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:10 am 
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Thanks, I downloaded the manuals 2004 - 2006, busy checking it and measure like you told me to, will give you a shout.

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:11 am 
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Mine are supposed to be a 2006

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:29 pm 
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Hi Billibob

Ok,I have checked everything loke you said, the results are:

Continuity on clutch interlock when clutch pressed and no continuity when released.

I used both keys to check.
STARTER RELAY
When I put a lead on ground and other on strater relay:
Pin 86 - I get 12 v when in start position clutch pressed or depressed

Lead on pos batt terminal and other on pin 85 I get -9.8v ign on and not starting pos, it stays the same when in start position clutch presses or released.

ASD RELAY
1 lead on ground other on pin 86 - 12.6v ign off and key out as well booty ign on.

1 lead on batt pos and other on pin 85 - (-0.9v) ignition off and key out.
(-12.6v) ign on


I have checked continuity on all wires from fuses and relays to ECM all is fine.
I used the diagram for 2006 CRD.

When switched on the results are:

Fuse 14 to C2 pin 19 - 12v
ASD relay pin 85 to C2 pin 5 but it is connected on the ECM to pin 44. ( Black lead from multimeter connected to batt neg - no reading.
Black lead connected to batt pos. (-12v)
ASD relay pin 87 /fuse 26 to C2 pin 44 but this one is connected to ECM pin 5.
Fuse 28 to pin 86 to C2 pin 22 - (12v) when in start position .
Pin 85 on starter relay to pin 58 on ECM - 12v clutch pressed or released.
Pin 87 on starter relay to starter - 0v.

It seem as if the 2005 diesel turbo diagram are the same but I cannot be 100% sure as my diagram doesnt have the same detail as my 2006 diagram.


I hope you can make something of this findings.

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:14 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
Welcome back....I have printed out your latest reply which will keep me busy for a while!

Very important before we go any further....you have to determine if yours is a 2005 or 2006 CRD!

Page 8E-12 in the 2005 Jeep KJ Service Manual describes the FCM and shows where it is located.
It is in the engine bay on the left side wall in front of the Alternator below the large fuse/relay box (PDC) at right angles to the radiator...looks to be about 6X6 inches.
If it is there...you have a 2005 if not there you have a 2006.
If it is there...remove it and disconnect the single connector there and clean the male and female contacts intensely!

Do this and get back to us as to whether this is a 2005 or 2006 CRD! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 2006 liberty 2.8 crd not crancking and not starting
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:16 am 
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Location: White River in the Bush South Africa
OK on the LH Side of the windscreen is the VIN number.

Write down this series of numbers/alpha characters.

Should read something like this:

Position Interpretation Description

1 Country of Origin 1---Built in US
2 Assembler J = Jeep
3 Vehicle Type 4 = MPV
4 not important
5 Vehicle Line M = RHD
6 Series 3, 4 or 5
7 Body Style 8 = KJ
8 Engine 5 = 2.8L 16v Turbo Diesel
9 Check Digit
10 Model Year 5 or 6
11 Assembly Plant L = Toledo
12 thru 17 Build Sequence

So is this a 2005 or 2006 :wink:

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