I'm not bashing the mechanics that work at dealerships.
I'm sure some if not most of them do an excellent job. I'm just asking questions because I want to know.

I read thread after thread of people going in with a problem and the dealer supposedly fixes it,
then the same day or the next day the same problem occurs again, and the process starts over.
In many threads that I've read the dealer will replace 4 or 5 different things and still not get it right.

Are vehicles that complicated nowadays that even mechanics with specialized training on a specific brand that probably see
the same things over and over still can't figure out how to fix them?
I wouldn't mind going to the dealer at all if I knew you could go in, get it fixed right the first time, and pay your bill.

They can't fix people's ESP problems. Brake caliper problems occur over and over even after the repair. They break other things as they're repairing something else. They even put the wrong oil in mine on my very first oil change.
I have seen countless threads about these problems.

What is going on?
Is it really that difficult even with specialized training?
Is there some other reason this happens over and over and over?

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

yea, i wanna know why they totally suck and make us have to go back 5 times just to put the rt passenger window back on the track.

that was just one of several things we have gone back several times for each.

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Admin note:
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Exactly the stuff I'm talking about !!!
What on earth goes on behind those garage doors?
These people do this every day for a career, are specially-trained, and must see identical problems over and over.
I really don't get it, but I know almost nothing about auto repair, so maybe there's more to it.
You tell me.

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

Well i'm not defending anyone here but i used to be a ford technician so i know how a dealer operates. First problem is flat rate warranty time. It sucks. A tech gets paid what the job pays not the actual time it takes him to do the job. Take the window track for example it probably pays .2 hrs. to check the veh out. No way you're gonna pull the vehicle into the shop, pull a door panel, figure out what is broken, order the part, and put it back together in .2hrs so the customer can take the vehicle untill the parts arrive. Next either the wrong parts were ordered because the tech half assed it and didn't diag it correctly because he figured wasn't getting paid enough. Or he just guessed and the part he thought was broken really wasn't and needed to order another part. Or the parts deptartment screwed up and ordered the wrong part to begin with. There are several different scenerios that can cause a 5 visit repair. As for the training some dealers dont keep their techs up to date with the latest training. Figure if the shop bills $100 per hour and they have 2 techs out for the day in training they are loosing about $1600 just in labor that does not include the parts that would be sold during each job. I know its not right but some dealers just think about the big picture and that is of course "money". The less money the shop bills the less the service manager's bonus is gonna be for the month. Then the General Manger of the dealer says to the service manager why are your numbers down for the month? It's a vicious cycle. Yes dealers see identicle problems sometimes, the manufacturers distribute tsb's aka technical service bulletins to fix a know problem with an updated part or procedure.

That is also the reason i do all my own work on my KJ.

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02' Sport- SOLD

07' Dodge Ram Quad Cab 1500 4x4
Yeah it's got a hemi!

Agreed. Do your own work, problem solved.

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http://www.Colorado4Wheel.com
"Its not about what you can DO with your Jeep, its about where you can GO with your Jeep."
Knowledgeable - But Caustic

and I hate to say it - but I think computers made it worse.
Most of the Tech training is how to plug in a diagnostic computer - see what the output is and replace that part - no questions asked.
If it's not in the computer - they don't know how to troubleshoot.

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

This kind of stuff isn't limited to dealers. Many places drag it out instead of just doing it right the first time.

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Nanette

03 Freedom with some neat stuff done to it that I learned about here.

Yes but they made it better too. We can complain a lot about the PIA issues when they happen but the bottom line is that most vehicles run better and longer with less maintenance today then ever. A lot of that is because of computers.

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Dave

'06 CRD Limited, Lt. Khaki, MOPAR Slush Mats/Skids, DrawTite Front Hitch, Mag Lite, Yakima Bars, Thule Bike Rack, Fumoto, ORM, 245/70 Revo 2

Wish list: Lift, Boulder Bars, Something Bigger in the Front and Back, More Lights

You are very correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I worked a GM/Jeep dealership for 3 years.WARRENTY WORK SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd rather went to the dentist and got a root canel with out numbing up first.You get hosed so bad on warrenty work that nobody wants to do it so they give it to the new guy's and they don't know jack yet.It really sucked hunting down a electrical problem or a wind noise,water leak that took 6+ hours and getting paid .3 hours !You can't really blame the Tech's,it's more the service writers/supervisors getting on you that are to blame.Getting the right training is also hard due to time/money issues.Since I worked in the bodyshop(did alot of service shop work to) sometimes it would be slow so I would get the training(and get paid for it),I have 49 GM certifications and 32 Chrysler certifications(everthing from advance diagnostics of vehicle systems to the Allison 5/6 speed auto).The classes where mostly a joke though,it's more like you learn from doing it,and screwing up to figure it out.Just remember there are alot of good mechanic's(and yes there are alot of bad one's to) and they have to make a living to.Just think about what you do and how much someone complains about your rates and such(doctors,lawyers,IT geeks,and any other service job).

if you hate your job, do something else.

thats the problem with the mechanics right there. they apparently had no idea what they were getting into. obviously if you go thru all that training to work at a dealership, you are going to be doing tons of warranty work. i guess we should lay the blame on the mechanic schools for not teaching you that you are going to hate your job because you will constantly get screwed over.

then they take it out on us that have to drive 30 minutes each way, 5 times! just to fix a simple thing.

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Warrenty work is a nessecary evil,you can't get away from it in almost any job.I love turning wreches,hate getting screwed out of my valueable time/talent.I would say more but I'll keep my mouth shut(mostly about whinning little customers with stupid problems that are not warrenty work).

I would actually pay a higher rate if they told me they'd put their best mechanic on my Jeep, do a high-quality job, and fix it correctly the first time. There should be some kind of guarantee on the work. Each time I have to bring it back for the exact same repair I want a free rental if necessary, and I want some of my money back for their mistake. Luckily I know of a former dealership mechanic that works out of his home, so I'll be going to him once the warranty is up. He'll hook his computer up to your Jeep while you're watching, and then he'll actually explain what he thinks is wrong. He said he finally got out of the dealership because he got tired of being dishonest. His boss would tell him to do extra repairs on vehicles even if they weren't really necessary justifying it by saying that the BMW drivers they serviced had plenty of money anyway.

At the dealership I go to you pull in and talk to a service advisor (glorified customer service rep). The mechanics are hidden from view..........you don't talk to them, you don't see them. If you have questions you talk to the service advisor, and he just reads what is on the invoice for his information. No matter what question you ask you always get a general, generic answer, or he just stares at the invoice and repeats the little blurb describing the work that was done.

The bad thing is that the dealership is a 3 minute walk down my street. It's so convenient. I can just drop off my Jeep and walk home. Just wish they ran it better.

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

[quote="JohnnyCash"]I would actually pay a higher rate if they told me they'd put their best mechanic on my Jeep, do a high-quality job, and fix it correctly the first time. [/quote]

that is an AWESOME idea!!! i would definitely pay more if i knew for a fact things would be fixed right the first time every time.

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Admin note:
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It's not just warranty work. I was 500 miles from home when I blew the head gasket, bent 2 valves, and scorched 2 cylinders at Rockingham. Still ran a 15.7 even though it shut down 3/4 the way down the track and only coasted across the line. I took it over to the 5 star dealership there and asked them to check to see how bad the damage was. If it wasn't much, to fix it there, otherwise I was going to move up the building of the motor by a couple months and would get a truck to transport it down to KRC in Florida. It was running rough and was shaking. They checked it for a few hours, and came back and told me the block was cracked, the heads were ruined, and it was a complete loss. I would need a new long block. This was on a Monday, and they said they could get the new long block installed and ready to go by Friday, with a 3 year warranty, and I could come back and pick it up that weekend. On Friday, when I called them, they said good news and bad news. They had the motor dismantled, and the heads weren't destroyed. I only needed a short block. Bad news, the short block wasn't there, and neither was the new long block. Thursday, the next week, good news and bad news. The block was in it, but it's missing on all cylinders, so they keep telling me it's the B&G computer must have partially failed and is causing the problem rather than my idea that they did the timing wrong. I give in and overnight the stock PCM morning delivery. I call them and verify they got it, and then again in the afternoon to find out they haven't touched my Jeep. It's Tuesday of the start of the third week before another tech tell's me that he thinks the tech working on my Jeep, which hasn't been in for days, built the timing wrong. They start working on it again and told me it was finished on Thursday. After working all day Friday, a friend of mine and I left Lexington, KY around midnight to arrive there Saturday morning at 8:00 am. The Jeep is absolutely filthy. We pop the hood, and see that the K&N FIPK is installed completely wrong and bent up. I start the Jeep, and it runs so rich that you can see the exhaust clouds from 100 feet away on a warm July morning, and smells like you're huffing gasoline. The shark nozzle for the N2O system is still in the air tube, but with no lines connected to it, pulling in unfiltered air. They had driven it 50 miles like that and didn't understand why I was a little angry at this point. They fixed those problems except the bent up air filter, and handed me my edited invoice for a used short block with no warranty, and machining on the heads that cost almost as much as new heads. After an hour long heated argument with the manager that obviously had no idea how much firepower was on us KY boys, I ended up agreeing to them refunding $1000 in labor, and a year warranty, so I could take it to a good mechanic to fix anything else they did wrong, and took my short block that just needs to be bored so it can be rebuilt. I didn't want to be without my Jeep for a few more months or longer, or I would have pulled in one of the big law firms I do forensics for, the president of the BBB of that area that I had the president of the BBB here talk to, and get Chrysler to pull their 5 star status. I took it to my mechanic so he could pull the transmission and fix the housing they bent when they installed the motor that was causing really weird scratching noises from the transmission. I've still got the short block they claimed was cracked. One of these days I'm going to decide how I want it built and swap it back in.

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June 2001 Liberty Limited 4X4
Frankenlift II Premium, Al's Upper Arms, 245/75R16 C Silent Armors on Moabs, RL Skink Super Sliders, Rear DTT, Riddler Diff Cover, Fastman Throttle Body, Profinish-Proglass Hood, Borla Dual Outlet Exhaust, TransGo Reprogramming Kit, APS Stall Converter, 4.10 Gears, B&G Chrysler PCM, Lots of Line-X, etc...

If you knew as much as you think you did,you would be ABLE to fix it yourself and quit whining about US techs that have to try and do it for a livin'. NUFF SAID!!!!!

Ron

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest

Who said anyone knew anything? I know absolutely nothing about mechanics, and I am a complete idiot when it comes to doing my own repairs.
I've met a few mechanics and they seemed like very honest, hard-working people.
I only started this thread because I don't understand what goes wrong that a vehicle can go back to the dealership 5 times for the same problem with something like a broken window as someone posted. My uncle is a school bus mechanic in Tennesse and he's as honest and hard-working as they come.
I am just trying to understand why there are so many threads about people getting repairs for something, then going back for the same thing, then getting it repaired, then going back for the same thing, then again and sometimes again. I'm not insulting the mechanics that work at dealerships......sorry if it sounds like I am. Just frustrated and trying to figure out where it all goes wrong.
From all the comments it sounds like they are:
-too hurried and pressured by their bosses to get a job done as quick as possible
-reluctant to take much time to do warranty work because they are not fairly compensated
-not trained properly because their bosses don't want to pay for it
-and I'm sure there are just some mechanics who are just not as skilled, just don't care, and hate their jobs, just like they are employees anywhere else the same way

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

I think I was replying to the one who said something like "If I knew for a fact "....not you JohnnyCash.I really did'nt think your topic or replies where out of line......but someone else seems to insist on thinking that no one is smarter than them,and in reallity are really just showing thier ignorance.And besides.......Who said anything about "hating thier job",it's people that try to tell us HOW to do ours, we dislike.

Ron

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest

That is the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I bring the same level of skill to jobs that I did at a dealer as I do for fixing Military vehicles going in(or fixing them while in) combat.I do care and I do try my hardest,but sometimes you get those "mystery" problems that do require more than one trip(we can't possibly know everything,there are some really confusing problems that pop up from time to time).Yes I understand that when something strange happens(noises and etc) that sometimes it's not going to do it with a tech tagging along,but if you work on a brand enough you get to know what are common problems with a certian model.With these "common" problems you might have the symptoms but it may not be the correct fix sometimes.Just saying "sorry" for all tech's that do this trying to save time and make some money(I have been guilty of it to,it happens get over it).For all of you I don't want to do your job(and have all your gripes) but put yourself in a tech's shoes and you'll understand a little more,that's all I ask.If in doubt yell at the service manager,that's the main culperate(trust me on that,they even try to screw the tech's).

I hate my job.
Mechanics at dealerships would probably hate me.
My job is to decide how high of a warranty rate to pay dealerships for their warranty work.

I think most mechanics are probably pretty darn good.
It seems to just be the way service departments are run that ruins it.
I just took my watch to the jeweler because it got moisture inside that wouldn't come out. They told me to walk around for 10 minutes. I come back and it's fixed at no charge.
I had a flat tire a couple months ago. Took it to the tire store down the street. Repaired it no charge; asked me to come see them when I'm ready to buy tires. Will I? You bet !!!
I never hear stories like this when it comes to auto repairs at dealerships.
They really need to work on the "service" part of the service centers.
They'd probably make more money in the long run, and have happier customers, and enjoy their jobs more.

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2007 Jeep Liberty Sport
Not Just Red..............Inferno Red !
Automatic, 4WD
Mopar Skids, Tow Hooks

Well, I"ve said before that I don't like bashing dealerships cause I would'nt want them bashing our independent shops,but where I work we try to be just like the two instances you just mentioned.Good oldfashioned service as fairly priced as posible.And as mentioned by someone else earlier....If you take a vehicle back 5 times for the same thing....Who is the dumb one here?

Ron

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Ron
03 Red Libberty Sport
3.7 V6 Auto 4x4
Lifted
Cooper Discover ATRs 265/75/16
American Racing 16x8 Polished Baja Wheels
Moog Lower Ball Joints
Member#051397 L.O.S.T. Midwest