I would say, thats the point, it's harder and harder to find american goods. We are loosing our manufacturing base. It's bad enough to be held hostage over oil, I guess our every day goods will be next. It really should be a national security issue. There is no them or us, it's us, there isn't going to be a one world economy, or peace and love on earth. Half of the world would cut our throats in a heart beat, they do every day in the UN. 911 was just an example of whats to come when they catch us napping again. This ole wise tale that japanese stuff is better is just pure bunk, people use that for an excuse to ease thier concenus for buying the junk. If we don't take care of our own, nobody else will. I don't complain about who is richer or poorer in this country, I just help where I can and thank God every day for what I have. No matter how bad I have it, there's allways someone who has it worse. If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem. I don't want the japaese plants to close, I want a level playing field, either all auto companies in the usa should be in the uaw, or none should have to be. I thought this was a jeep liberty forum, not toyota's -R- us !!!

_________________
06 jeep liberty 4x4 65th aniver edition

04 ranger xlt sc 4x4, 4.0 sohc, 5-speed, gibson dual sport, cai, udp, bama tune, BFG's, and tru-trac

07 redfire mustang GT, 4.6 3V, 5-speed

well said wendell.

this issue make people get emotional because it digs deep. I work with people who are being, for all intents and purposes, fired. and these people are not slackers, or bums. rather very pleasant, knowledgeable and hardworking Americans that are having their lives turned upside down.

I'm glad this topic is showing both sides of the issue. And it's not like I really care what people buy, just like i don't care who anyone votes for.



speak for yourself. and if that's what you really think of America, I feel sorry for you.

toyota R' us - nice i like that one!!! And this is a liberty forum but that doesn't mean that everybody or anybody for that fact has to be completely against Japanese vehicles. In some aspects its what keeps the American companies on their toes. Without competition from foreign companies the prices of American cars would go up and quality would either stay the same or may even go down. When American auto companies step up to the plate and make better cars then more Americans will buy them!!! Now don't get me wrong I love my Jeep but other cars i was looking at the same time i was planing to buy a new car: were the new civic SI and mitsu eclipse and i decided that i would rather play in the mud then on the pavement. And since i was a little kid everyone has said Jeep is synonymous with Mud so hence my pick. But overall i think most Japanese cars have number 1. better reputation(whether they hide recalls or not) 2. styling wise is more cutting edge 3. Foreign cars come with better warranties. And yes most of the foreign people would cut our throat, which may or may not be our fault. And yes we are being held hostage for oil, which last time i heard there was oil in Alaska we could be tapping but were not; so i consider that our own fault. And no there will never be one big world economy and will not be peace and love on earth(unless we blow everybody else away). But enough complaining, what reasonable thing do you suggest we do???(I don't think this includes another Boston Tea Party with Japanese vehicles) I also don't think thats its reasonable to believe that trading will stop.

_________________
Drop what your doin, and go drive your jeep!!!!
03 Jeep Liberty Limited
4X4

If you think every business at the top of the food chain is honest, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

You people seem to forget the American cars of the 70's and early 80's. They sucked. Why? Because they were allowed to make crap and sell it. No real competition. UAW didn't help matters either. In comes the foreign cars (not just Japanese) with better quality, better looking, and cheaper priced cars. They forced the US makers to change. Without those foreign cars, the US cars would still be crap today.

You don't care about the rich man? Who do you think has moved the factories to foreign countries where workers get paid 30 cents an hour so the rich man can get richer and the American worker that used to do the job is out of a job and on a corner begging for food? Who allows that to happen? Congress. China is a great example 9as mentioned earlier). Why does this happen? Because there are other big things involved besides commerce. Think bigger picture.

Don't go blaming the other countries about oil control. Go blame the oil companies and their lobbyists that have our politicians in the palm of their hands. There have been many ways to come up with alternative fuels/energy sources yet the oil companies strike them down or convince the car companies NOT to make autos that use them....or they buy them out and make them disappear. Go look at the money spent on lobbyists and the power they have in DC....uh, Washington, DC.


Wendell, you say we are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Well, complaining on here does not solve anything. One person can make a difference, but most of the time, he/she is left in the mud slinging it around with people and doing nothing about it. If you feel that this is Pro or Con only and no in-between, then you should talk to your Rep in Congress.

_________________
===
New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

It also doesn't help that President Bush happens to be a big oil man!!! Now plz don't let this become a discussion on president bush, but i'm just trying to make a point. Bush is in a position of major power, and eventually that power will be taken away, why would he vote on something that is going to make him lose money when right now he has the power to veto it??? He won't!!!

_________________
Drop what your doin, and go drive your jeep!!!!
03 Jeep Liberty Limited
4X4

Careful folks...this isn't going any place good and will be closed if necessary. Please try to keep politics out of this.

Back on topic - If America BUILDS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT AT A COMPETITIVE PRICE then people will buy it. Simple as that. You can't question peoples' patriotism based on the fact that they find MORE VALUE in a product that happens to be built elsewhere...that's capitalism and that's what this country is built on. Artificially propping up our manufacturers by keeping others out or boycotting products only serves to hurt American industry in the long run. That line of thinking leads to less competition, less innovation, and higher prices (look where it got the Russians - that nation is largely bankrupt with just a few wealthy individuals and a huge lower class...ironically, that's what they tried to avoid through communism and isolationism).

We have people here from all walks of life, with different political and religious views. And I know politics and religion play a roll in all our daily lives, but this is not the place to discuss that. This is a jeep board. A fun, informational jeep board. And if I get the "well... he started it", the whole thing will get locked down, and deleted A.S.A.P. Any problems, please feel free to PM me.

Thank you for your understanding and please continue to enjoy your forum. L.O.S.T. KJ Staff

_________________
- Burchie

A coworker of mine just bought a 2007 KJ. She was considering a Hyundai Santa Fe
After a week of owning the KJ, she is happy with her decision. I used the "support domestic workers" argument
as well as side-by-side comparisons of specifications and price.

_________________
MikeP
L.O.S.T. #000202
2021 Compass

I would say, contrary to your assertion that cars in 70's and 80's sucked because the big three didn't want to build good cars. rather that we didn't have the engine technology to meet federal emissions regulations, such as fuel injection, accurate oxygen sensors and high speed embedded computers. all technologies mastered by American auto manufactures, and quickly copied buy asian import brands.

this still rings true today, the liberty CRD was discontinued because it was not designed to meet '07 or '08 emissions. so do any cars or trucks have the required '08 DPF technology now? Ford's 6.4L powerstroke does and so will the jeep Grand Cherokee CRD. I can't think of a east asia import brand with DPF that can be purchased in '07 that meets '08 guidelines. but when japanese and Korean imports catch up they will be perceived as the technology champions, throwing the towel in Americans automobile manufactures collective faces and beating them to the clean diesel technology. but thats not how it's unfolding right now, i'm going to watch the mass media twist this issues, diesel technology,(as they have with reliability of asian cars in the '90s) just as I have perdicted.

ditto

_________________
PETE
ADMINISTRATOR
L.O.S.T. 4 LIFE
04 COLUMBIA ED. & 04 SPORT

Many apologies to the forum staff if I had crossed any lines... I was just trying to express my viewpoints on the state of the American auto manufacturers.

At least we are all on this board as the proud owners of Jeeps!

_________________
02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

You didn't cross the line. I was enjoying the conversation. I like a good debate every now and them. There are just some guide lines to follow.

In most cases people will agree to disagree at the end of the day. But not when it comes to politics, and especially regions. (and I wouldn't want someone to give in) These conversations can get real ugly real fast, with no real end in sight. This is just not that type of board. Maybe we need to add unions to that too. My wife is a school teach and they have a really strong union out here in CA. She got a little bent.

But as far as the thread, there was some good info. I'm personally debating between a Dodge Ram, or a Tundra. But the WK is winning me over.

_________________
- Burchie

Speaking of the Dodge Ram - right now, DCX (or the Dodge Dealer) will upgrade you to the Hemi engine for free. Not that I would probably choose the ram myself but it is nice to have all the facts..

_________________
02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

Good timing Burchie! And well put BTW.

I will have to agree with Ripple at least for the Current epa regs, (im not old enough to remember the 70's regs) I do remember the 70-80's cars though, big engines(sometimes) ,low compression, smog pumps?, vacuum lines everywhere, no power, and poor fuel mileage. What a joke. And we all know for sure the EPA is tough for the diesels today. Everyone wants whats good for the environment, I just hope they dont kill the upcoming diesel trend this time.

_________________
It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox

With the introduction of Low-Sulfer diesel fuels into todays service stations and the latest technology of emmisions contol systems - Diesel powered vehicles will contine to gain in popularity while still meeting all of the strict requirements set forth by the EPA.

Remember - Jeep has the CRD Commander coming out soon. MB just released their BluTech diesels and hopefully soon VW will return with an updated TDI powerplant.

_________________
02 Liberty Limited
Silver Outside & Taupe Inside
Heated Seats, Sunroof & Infinity speakers
USA Spec I-Pod adaptor, Mopar Sub, Garmin GPS
Tow Package, Select-Trac
Rock Rails, Tow Hooks

And they are all using Bluetec, maybe DC got this one right.

_________________
It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox

Any chance of seeing that out here in CA?

_________________
- Burchie

Im not sure about the others, but VW claims they can pass your req's

http://www.dieselforum.org/newsarticle/article/683/118/

_________________
It may be that your only purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

06 CRD Sport
Built 5/11/06
Jeep Green
Rocklizard diff cover
V6 Airbox