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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:20 pm 
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Coal Country Wheelin
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So does any one know th eamp ratings for the alternators for the sport and the renegade by chance?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:30 pm 
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I believe the standard alternator is rated 136A and the Renegade 160A.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liber ... /Batteries

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:34 pm 
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Coal Country Wheelin
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Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:55 pm 
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I'm looking at doing a dual battery hook-up as well in my Jeep, came across this article while doign some research about the project...

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techarticl ... p_battery/

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Tokyojoe wrote:
Pete,

The HUD, Nightvision, and targeting tracking systems are cool but.......


:lol: :lol: :lol:


I got all that stuff figured out, it's just the laser rangefinder/designator and the mast mounted sight I'm having problems fabricating the wiring for. :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:14 pm 
:shock: Unless you are a car audio enthusiast who competes, or you are leaving your high-power lights on for an extended period of time with the engine off, the two battery set up is a waste of money! If you just HAVE to get rid of hundreds of dollars, there are many people in 3rd world countries dying because they don't have clean drinking water. Find a charity that can actually do something USEFUL with the cash! :roll:

I don't mean to sound preachy, but geez, two batteries won't help you with the engine on! :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:18 pm 
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KJpilot wrote:
:shock: Unless you are a car audio enthusiast who competes, or you are leaving your high-power lights on for an extended period of time with the engine off, the two battery set up is a waste of money! If you just HAVE to get rid of hundreds of dollars, there are many people in 3rd world countries dying because they don't have clean drinking water. Find a charity that can actually do something USEFUL with the cash! :roll:

I don't mean to sound preachy, but geez, two batteries won't help you with the engine on! :shock:


Not to mention the extra pounds you don't need to help with your gas mileage problems.And if you don't know when to turn your accesories off before running down your battery,then just carry a jump pack with you,and are also able to move it around easier for use in other places.I could go on all night...better not. :roll: Optima yellow top and big altenator is all you'll ever need.

Ron

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:16 am 
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Wow, thanks KJPilot and also spoonplugger1. That is how I assumed it worked but was never positive. But that clears things up very well. Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:56 am 
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KJpilot wrote:
I'd do the alternator & upgrade the one battery, & see where that gets you. the alternator is the bigger piece of the puzzle here. Theoretically, once the engine is started, the battery just recharges. It is only drawn from when the electrical demand exceeds what the alternator can produce. I agree that a better battery is a good purchase, but the solution to your concern lies in the alternator.

P.S. clowns never creeped me out, until I saw that one :wink:


this is what i would do...
also, optima batteries are awesome!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:27 am 
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KW AV8R wrote:
Tokyojoe wrote:
Pete,

The HUD, Nightvision, and targeting tracking systems are cool but.......


:lol: :lol: :lol:


I got all that stuff figured out, it's just the laser rangefinder/designator and the mast mounted sight I'm having problems fabricating the wiring for. :wink:
So where are you going to mount the .50 cal(or other big gun)?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:11 am 
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My Cummins naturally comes factory with two batteries to supply the powerhouse it needs. Dual batteries do provide a great deal of comfort. Optima is probably the best battery out there for storing the extra needed power for winches, extra lights, or other accessories. When pulling my travel trailer down the road, I’m constantly charging my RV dual batteries. Two batteries can hold more power than one battery. Dual batteries might seem like overkill in our KJ‘s until you need it. Two winters ago we did a search and rescue in the mountains of New Mexico. We took two equipped off-road vehicles. The weather was pretty tedious and the forest roads were nearly impassable. The Wrangler with the single battery couldn’t keep up after several hours of using a winch and off-road lights. The battery stress was too much. The other vehicle was a Pinzgauer 6x6 Military All-Terrain Vehicle with super swampers. I can not verify for sure that it had dual batteries, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it did. I do know that it is very important to be prepared. There are times that I have been miles and miles away from a town and in sub zero temperatures. If your battery or alternator decides to stop then you could be left in a world of dismay. I do know that the 6x6 Pinzgauer was by far the most amazing off-road machine that I’ve ever witnessed in action.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:08 pm 
If your vehicle came from the factory with 2 batteries, then it was designed to have two batteries by engineers. Comparing a vehicle with an electrical system designed around 2 batteries to one that was not is comparing apples & squares. As far as your examples of the wranglers, If they had had an alternator that was up to the task of the electrical demands, it would not matter how many batteries they had. You cant just slap a bunch of high amp equipment on a car & expect it to work in extreme conditions. Did the owners of the Wranglers upgrade the alternators? did they replace & upgrade the power cables & grounding straps? How much corrosion had built up on the wiring terminals?

Even with 2 batteries, if the alternator is not up to the task, you will run out of juice. Where does the change in the batteries come from? after you discharge the batteries, what has to recharge it? If all of the alternator's current & additional current from the battery are needed, what exactly is replacing the charge in the batteries as they are being used?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:01 pm 
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Diesels(3/4 and 1 ton+) come with 2 batteries because the starter is 24volts,the rest of the electrical system is 12 volt.They have the 24volt start because of the high torque/high amp demand to turn over a bigger diesel engine.Adding a additional battery does/will take it's toll on a alternator not designed for a dual battery setup,unless you isolate the 2nd battery for emergency use only.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Every Car Audio enthusiast knows that it takes dual batteries to get the power you need. 2-3 amplifiers continually sucking juice is hard on the alternator and single battery. Batteries get very hot when stressed. Consider how many off-road lights you have, the power each light needs, the duration you might use them, and factor in other power uses such as a winch and other accessories. Compile this information into some type of formula that provides you with an idea if an extra battery is needed. Upgrading to a bigger alternator is part of the negotiation, but there is no doubt that one battery is going to feel the stress. If your interior lights and/or off-road lights are dimming, that might be one sign that you need more juice. The Optima technical Representative told me that extreme heat is much more stressful on a battery than cold temperatures. The Jeep in my above Post was an example of over working the battery until it got so hot it wasn’t able to hold a charge. Ultimately the battery failed and we had to leave it stranded and come back two weeks later to retrieve it when the roads were permissible. Having the dual battery setup for emergency would have been nice in that current scenario. But having it wired for dual usage would have been convenient as well. There are thousands of cars/SUVs/Trucks out there who are running dual batteries for their car audio setup and aren’t having problems. My recommendation is to either go to a reputable Off-Road or Car Audio Shop and ask what types of aftermarket Alternators are being used and what appropriate electrical design is best used for your setup. If I have time I will call Optima and ask them. Most guys that I’ve seen with dual batteries are using Optima.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:24 pm 
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KJpilot wrote:
If your vehicle came from the factory with 2 batteries, then it was designed to have two batteries by engineers. Comparing a vehicle with an electrical system designed around 2 batteries to one that was not is comparing apples & squares. As far as your examples of the wranglers, If they had had an alternator that was up to the task of the electrical demands, it would not matter how many batteries they had. You cant just slap a bunch of high amp equipment on a car & expect it to work in extreme conditions. Did the owners of the Wranglers upgrade the alternators? did they replace & upgrade the power cables & grounding straps? How much corrosion had built up on the wiring terminals?

Even with 2 batteries, if the alternator is not up to the task, you will run out of juice. Where does the change in the batteries come from? after you discharge the batteries, what has to recharge it? If all of the alternator's current & additional current from the battery are needed, what exactly is replacing the charge in the batteries as they are being used?


A dual battery setup is fine for winching and off-road lighting purposes. The batteries will discharge during winch and off-road light use and recharge otherwise. They'll act like a buffer; drained in times of need and otherwise filled.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:39 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Diesels(3/4 and 1 ton+) come with 2 batteries because the starter is 24volts,the rest of the electrical system is 12 volt.They have the 24volt start because of the high torque/high amp demand to turn over a bigger diesel engine.Adding a additional battery does/will take it's toll on a alternator not designed for a dual battery setup,unless you isolate the 2nd battery for emergency use only.


If someone were to run dual batteries in our KJ’s, wouldn’t the extra battery be a deep cycle? Maybe I don’t understand how the dual batteries are being wired. :oops: I thought in Car Audio both batteries are directly wired to the alternator in series. Maybe I’m confused! How would you wire a dual battery for an emergency battery backup? I’ve seen people mount an extra battery for a winch. I’m assuming they built in a switch to pull from a deep cycle battery, yet able to trickle charge from the alternator. Is this the emergency battery that you are talking about?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:43 pm 
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A dual battery setup is fine for winching and off-road lighting purposes. The batteries will discharge during winch and off-road light use and recharge otherwise. They'll act like a buffer; drained in times of need and otherwise filled.[/quote]

Thanks Unixxx, I thought that's how it worked. I know I've seen many offroaders use the dual batteries, especially after mounting lights and for the use of a winch. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:35 am 
dieselenthusiast wrote:
Every Car Audio enthusiast knows that it takes dual batteries to get the power you need. 2-3 amplifiers continually sucking juice is hard on the alternator and single battery. Batteries get very hot when stressed. Consider how many off-road lights you have, the power each light needs, the duration you might use them, and factor in other power uses such as a winch and other accessories. Compile this information into some type of formula that provides you with an idea if an extra battery is needed. Upgrading to a bigger alternator is part of the negotiation, but there is no doubt that one battery is going to feel the stress. If your interior lights and/or off-road lights are dimming, that might be one sign that you need more juice. The Optima technical Representative told me that extreme heat is much more stressful on a battery than cold temperatures. The Jeep in my above Post was an example of over working the battery until it got so hot it wasn’t able to hold a charge. Ultimately the battery failed and we had to leave it stranded and come back two weeks later to retrieve it when the roads were permissible. Having the dual battery setup for emergency would have been nice in that current scenario. But having it wired for dual usage would have been convenient as well. There are thousands of cars/SUVs/Trucks out there who are running dual batteries for their car audio setup and aren’t having problems. My recommendation is to either go to a reputable Off-Road or Car Audio Shop and ask what types of aftermarket Alternators are being used and what appropriate electrical design is best used for your setup. If I have time I will call Optima and ask them. Most guys that I’ve seen with dual batteries are using Optima.


I am a car audio enthusiast. I've designed & built several systems, many times with the help of an electrical engineer or two. Competitors use dual batteries for competition purposes. Many tournaments are held indoors, where running the engine is not allowed, so they can't use the alternator. The way to compensate for the occasional transient peak is with a capacitor, not 2 batteries. Batteries are not over-stressed when they are part of a well designed electrical system that includes a properly sized alternator. The proper way to design that system is to first consider the alternator's capacity in amps, & how many amps are used by the equipment the vehicle requires to run. Then you have the left over for use. If you have installed equipment that exceeds that, you shouldn't run everything at once! If you are winching, turn off 5 of your lights, or all of them & have your buddy light the scene from his rig. Using a bigger battery, or two batteries to compensate for an overloaded system is not the proper way to approach this, & it can cause problems. Note that I am saying that abusing the system will cause problems, I am not saying that a properly installed dual battery system will cause problems. I've said that unless you are a car audio competitor, or you use the rig's electrical system a lot without the engine running, it is a waste of money to install 2 batteries.

If you are relying on the battery to compensate, THAT is when you are stressing the battery. How do you not stress the battery? By using a properly sized alternator, or adjusting the electrical load demand to stay within the parameters of the alternator.

By the way, I admire you & your friends for risking your own safety to help others in need. The world needs more people like that!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:08 am 
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Fair enough KJpilot, sounds like you’ve done your homework and have a lot of experience to boot. :wink: These threads help bring good topics like this to the table. We can have a better understanding from hearing other members perspectives and experiences. Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:32 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Diesels(3/4 and 1 ton+) come with 2 batteries because the starter is 24volts,the rest of the electrical system is 12 volt.They have the 24volt start because of the high torque/high amp demand to turn over a bigger diesel engine.Adding a additional battery does/will take it's toll on a alternator not designed for a dual battery setup,unless you isolate the 2nd battery for emergency use only.


Sorry for dredging up this ancient thread, but nobody caught this error. Look up starters for your favorite diesel pickup. They're 12 Volt systems. The reason for the two batteries is the same as why someone would need two batteries for a Jeep: capacity, which is why they're hooked up PARALLEL (one lead goes to all +, the other to all -), not in series, which would give more Voltage. You need more Amps. Note that it's not always easy to trace the lead from terminal to terminal in some messy battery boxes, or more to the point, across a truck engine compartment where you have two batteries on opposite sides of your engine.

Compare the automotive stuff (which even our diesel pickups and Cab/Chassis rigs are included)
http://westernstarter.com/automotive (all 12 V)

with the Heavy Duty stuff (some 12V, some 24V)

http://westernstarter.com/caterpillar-h ... alternator

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