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 Post subject: Cooler AIR to my K&N air box?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:47 am 
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Location: Sarasota, FL
I have the K&N kit and there are alot of openings in the divider. I would like to get some hi temp tape and fire resistant foam. and make the inside of the box cooler. I did open the rubber part next to the radiator with hopes of getting colder air in there. However this wont do anygood unless i can keep the other hot air out of there. Any ideas? Is my idea good?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:58 am 
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Before I put any time into it I'd measure the temperature in the boxed in area. I know lots has been written about K&Ns sucking in hot air but I've never read anyone actually measured the temp of the K&N and stock box for comparison. The main air flow into the K&N is still from under the hood line just like the stock air box. The air in front of the KJ would be pressurized and the engine compartment is designed to draw air through to cool everything down. It seems to me the natural flow would be in under the hood and out through the filter or the holes on the side.

If you are infact drawing hot air in from these side gaps and you plug them up then won't you be starving the box of needed airflow? You would now have to suck the air in through some other restricted space and reduce the main benefit of having the K&N. Air will flow through the path of least resistance.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:30 pm 
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After warming up the engine i raised the hood and used a very accurate laser thermometer. I did this to check if my colder thermostat was working and it was 178-182 coming out of the engine around 138-142 going back in. Well i deciced to put it on the filter to see how hot that was and it was around 135 degrees. (basicly the under hood temperture). So now we have a measurement. I built a CAI in my Alero and the temp of the filter was around 95 degrees. I figure and this is from a reliable source that 10 degrees lower temp of air going in equels 1 horsepower. So if i could cool everything down a bit it would mean around 4-5 horsepower. As i said before i have opened the rubber piece next to the radiator and it lets cold air right in and there is plenty of air coming through. Plus i am not thinking of completly sealing it i just want to keep most of the hot air out. I guess i just want to know where i can get this stuff and i am not sure exactly what i am looking for. Any ideas (high temperture handling tape?) Fire resistant foam?


Chris

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:33 pm 
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I got this article off of the AEM site. It explains a little about what you need to know and is overall intresting.

Aluminum vs. Steel vs. Plastic

The issue of heat absorption with an intake system has a degree of validity, however we have found that too much emphasis is placed on material selection, instead of the real issue of tuning the system. Our systems feature a unique shape and diameter because this is what we found to make the most useable torque and horsepower for each individual application in testing. However, for the purposes of this discussion, we will limit it to why we choose to make our systems from aluminum and the effects of heat absorption on all materials. If you do not wish to review all of this information right now, a quick synopsis of this discussion is outlined in the following bullet points, with complete topic discussions below:


We use aluminum to eliminate any chance of the system rusting, and it's lighter than steel

We limit our use of plastic because this material absorbs some of the sound energy we work to create in the inlet duct

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power

The rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material

We use aluminum—or a combination of aluminum and plastic plenums for throttle-body-injected applications that require a special plenum—for every intake we produce. This eliminates any chance of rust occurring on the inside of the inlet pipe. We have seen chrome-plated steel systems whose inner diameter became rusted over time, causing flakes of rust to travel along the inlet path. We also choose aluminum because of its lightweight properties. Heavier components place higher loads on the brackets they are attached to—or even worse, to the pipes they are attached to. We combine our lightweight aluminum design with a flexible coupling device we call a soft mount that connects the intake system to the body of the vehicle. In addition to the soft mount, we use doublers at the point where the mounting bracket is welded to the pipe for additional strength.

We limit our use of plastic because this material absorbs some of the sound energy we work to create in the inlet duct. Although we use the best plastic material for our plenums, it is still not as resilient and does not retain the visual appeal of aluminum over long-term use. Because we have to use plastic on throttle body applications, we take extra precautions to ensure that the aluminum retaining ring that attaches to the throttle body is anchored securely into the plastic plenum; this is done by making an interlocking mechanical link between the plastic and aluminum.

Whether or not an inlet system is made from aluminum, steel, or plastic, the thermal conductivity of the duct material has little effect on engine power. We have found that the tuning of the pipe, in addition to providing the coolest inlet air source, are the keys to making useable power. We perform engine inlet-air-temp studies when developing each application to determine the coolest location for sourcing inlet air. In addition to this, we determine the safest location for the inlet source to protect it from highly dusty conditions and water. To this end, we provide a stainless-steel heat shield to help minimize heat soak into the inlet area, as well as to provide protection from dust, dirt and mud.


At light throttle opening, air speed and airflow at the inlet system are relatively low. The high residence time of air in the inlet while at low-throttle settings will increase inlet charge temps when materials with high thermal conductivity are used. Typically, when someone is at light throttle they are not asking the engine to make power. Most likely, fuel economy is the issue.

When the throttle is fully opened however, air speed and airflow increase considerably. Typically, the inlet air speed of a 5.7L engine with a four-inch duct at full throttle is 34 feet-per-second, based on a volumetric efficiency of 70% and an engine speed of 3,000 rpm. Most inlet systems for every intake manufacturer for this engine are 30 inches or less. This means that the air in the duct of a 30-inch inlet length on this engine at the given rpm is 1/10th of a second—hardly enough time to transfer an appreciable amount of heat into the air stream on any system.


Basically, the rate at which air travels through the inlet path under open throttle, when one is asking the engine for maximum power, negates the effect of material heat soak, regardless of the material. We hope that this helps to clear up the issues of material heat absorption in intake systems. Thank you for taking the time to read this, we welcome your comments and feedback!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:52 pm 
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Excellent work Chris. I'm surprised by the numbers on the filter but now its science instead of one opinion vs another.

As to your original question then. Check in the heating area of your hardware store or maybe you'll have to go to a heating contractor. I had new furnaces put in couple years ago with the A-frames for central air. The contractor had a black expanding foam that they used to seal around the pipes for the AC coils.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:14 pm 
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Thats a great idea i will check home depot tonight and see what they have. I will take tempertures again before and after and report back.

Thanks for the info limited lurker


Chris

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:22 pm 
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I happen to have the Scan Gauge in the Jeep. One of the many functions it reads is the Intake Air Temp. Being that it's the summer, on a hot day with the a/c running in stop and go traffic it will read about 135. Same situation but moving along drops it into the 120's. Without a/c depending on moving or not 110-120. On a cool night and cruising I've seen it a little over 100 or so. I'm looking forward to see what the temp readings are in the winter. The guage reads right off the OBD port so it is being told what's going on by the computer. How accurate the sensor is for the computer to read I don't know but since the computer has input from the sensor it must be pretty reliable anyway.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:16 am 
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thats really great. where is that temperture sensor located? do you have an aftermarket intake?


Chris

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Auburn LSD
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:04 pm 
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I have no idea where the factory intake air temp sensor is located. I still have the factory box hooked up. I was'nt going to change it out till next summer for the K&N System. When I got in the jeep this morning the evic outside air temp was 75 degrees. Within minutes of the engine running the intake air temp was at 82. Just before I got on the hwy. The intake air was 117, eng. temp read 202. intake air dropped down to 109 at hwy speed (55mph) with the a/c on. I've found the Scan Gauge as a very informative and useful tool. Tells all engine parameters except fuel pres.

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245/75-16 Revos
Full Armor
Powertrax NoSlip
Magnaflow Exhaust
Way more on the Horizon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:04 pm 
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The IAT is located at the neck to the throttle body, the connector is sticking out the right side, if you're facing the windsheild.


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