"What you Drive, Drives America" the Level Field I

Ripple · **Posted:** Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:17 pm

I ran into article in a magazine about these guys and found their website. I think their focus on the facts about why it's important to buy American is refreshing, and data is sobering. according to Level Field, DCX and Ford have the highest domestic part content (78% each), therefore support the most US jobs per car. european car makers have the least domestic part content and support drastically less US workers.

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/

Quote:

Level Field is a grassroots organization founded by retirees of Chrysler, Ford, GM and the companies that supply them. We welcome foreign-owned automaker investment in America – home to some of the best workers in the world. But if you care about how each automaker contributes to our economy, you should have all the facts.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:56 pm

I've seen this article before - and loved it! (I didn't follow your link specifically) but did you see the content of an Audi? It's like 0.8% or something silly like that!

Great stuff

desertkj · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:24 pm **Posts:** 677

Interesting article. I know my Jeep was built in Ohio. One foreign that I do support however is Toyota. They provide many jobs for Americans and also are big in grassroots racing now.

smitty1938 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:53 pm

I have bought two foreign cars in my lifetime and have been unhappy with both. One was a Toyota and the other a VW bug. Since then I have been strickly one of the big 3 owners.

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:31 am

Frankly, I think the US makers suck now... I bought an '87 Subaru for 600, and so far, it has been better in quality than my wife's old chevy was in its first six months! My Jeep even had a lot of warranty repairs. I had an '00 Ranger that was cheaply built too. By far the Chevy was the worst POS I have ever owned! After that car, I doubt I will ever buy a Domestic again, until they focus on quality, and with how their stock is falling, unfortunately I am not the only one that sees this. Toy and Honda are both building many plants in the US, and their quality seems a lot better than Ford or GM, everyone I know with them have nothing but praise, and those with domestics, well, they are always in the shop. They need to work on building a good vehicle like they used too, like my old '75 F-100... Those were real trucks!

As for Jeep and DC, seen alot of recall on them too, better than the other domestics, but c'mon look what we pay for vehicles, only to have them in the shop every other month... no thanks.

OK, Sorry rant is over...

wendell · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:39 am

I've allways owned fords and played with jeeps and have never walked yet. Toyota has had a lot of recalls as well, but they try and cover thiers up, they say thier not going to do that anymore and be more honest about the recalls. Back when I sold yoda's, they would have us call our customers and tell them they were entitled to a free service inspection and have us scedule it. Then while they had the vehicle, they would do the recall item. I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with toyota or any other japanese car company. They wouldn't be so high and mighty if they had to work under the uaw contracts like the big three. The big three has to keep the union happy while still trying to compete with the japanese, no easy task.

Jeger · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:02 am

Ahh yes the good ole UAW. I understand that at one time they were needed, but now im not so sure, seems like they dont care whether the company survives or not.

Emos Way · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:11 am

desertkj wrote:

Interesting article. I know my Jeep was built in Ohio. One foreign that I do support however is Toyota. They provide many jobs for Americans and also are big in grassroots racing now.

I agree.. my previous vehicle was a 2001 Toyota Celica GT-S and I had nothing but trouble free driving.. I had a VW Golf before that it also was pleasent to drive.. my buick had transmission problems.. my Caddy had computer problems.. my ford Probe GT, well let's not even go there.... I bought my jeep and I think I'll stick with it for now.. but quality wise I don't think North Americans compare to Japan or european cars.. We can't just say that oh they're foreign and by buying one I'm not supporting North America, Toyota's are being built in North America, which means more jobs for all of us and future generations, and that's nothing we should contest..

But hey our prices do reflect that...
One more point and sorry to ramble on... American car companies are forced to sell cars/trucks with little or no interest when financing.. when is the last time you saw a Toyota FJ Cruiser with zero percent financing.. I haven't.. cause if I did I may have bought one...

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:22 am

American car companies can't compete financially because of two major issues:

1. Health Care - costs have risen through the roofs and in some cases people who no longer qualify for coverage are still getting benefits. The other car companies haven't been in bussiness as long as the Americans so they haven't racked up the same amount of "dependants." Or the other countries offer differnt methods for coverage that give the auto makers less responsibility to their employee's.

2. UAW - Now before you get all upset, I have nothing wrong with the UAW as they do serve a purpose. It's just that with all of the increases in pay and that horrible 'Job Bank' the cars have to be priced right out of the competitive segment or to stay competitive, the American OEM's have to offer less content... I don't think that it is fair for others and myself if a person with no college experience - goes to the Union and starts making 2x as much as I do and I have a stinking engineering degree and student loans to pay off.

Emos Way · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:35 am

sleeve84028 wrote:

American car companies can't compete financially because of two major issues:

1. Health Care - costs have risen through the roofs and in some cases people who no longer qualify for coverage are still getting benefits. The other car companies haven't been in bussiness as long as the Americans so they haven't racked up the same amount of "dependants." Or the other countries offer differnt methods for coverage that give the auto makers less responsibility to their employee's.

2. UAW - Now before you get all upset, I have nothing wrong with the UAW as they do serve a purpose. It's just that with all of the increases in pay and that horrible 'Job Bank' the cars have to be priced right out of the competitive segment or to stay competitive, the American OEM's have to offer less content... I don't think that it is fair for others and myself if a person with no college experience - goes to the Union and starts making 2x as much as I do and I have a stinking engineering degree and student loans to pay off.

THe health care issue may be one, but that's the way it is... hey we can come up with excuses all we want as to why the pricing is different and I'm not going to argue you raise a valid point.. but on the same note, does the automotive customer really care ??.. You're point that the other car companies haven't been in business as long as say Ford, so by now shouldn't The Big Three have figured out how to make a quality product??, I mean they've been practicing for so long.. I understand one country vs. another country for health care.. but again they are starting to make them in America, where you guys do get some health coverage ...

As for the UAW point, I can't agree with you more.. I run into a similar situation in Ontario (Canada), trades people makes more (per hour) than almost everyone except high level Management... Don't get down on the issue though.. we went to school for a reason...

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:37 am

A fewof those "American car companies, own foreign car companies. Others are owned by foreign companies. Who do you want to support? The rich guy at the top or the hard worker in the factory?

UAW can go take a hike. When a man can get hired and be the best worker but be laid off because he is the new guy and some lazy bum that has been there for a few years but sits around smoking all of the time can keep his during layoffs, that is what America is all about and that leads to crap work and higher wages. Unions are old dinosaurs now. They had a role in protecting workers in the past but are now just more of a problem.

Three toyotas and never had an issue with them.

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:49 am

Toyota makes fantastic vehilces.. I know that, you know that and NOW even Ford is acknowledging it... Hopefully that is the first sign of recovery for the domestics because here in Detroit - we are hurting!

Now speaking from experience - Honda vehicles feel cheaply built when you compare them to the domestic brands. I had a new Civic in the late '90's and you could feel the floor moving around on the highway. The sheetmetal on the door was so thin that when I shut it with the plam of my hand, I dented the door.

The only problem I had with my Ranger in 2000 was the transmission would freeze in park on cold nights (when I left it outside.)

The Liberty has been fantastic with only two required trips to the dealer for repair.

I've never owned a Toyota so I will not nor can I comment on their vehicles in these terms.

wendell · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:52 am

The ford probe was bult my mazda for ford. I would put the quality of my ranger, focus or kj up against anything comming out of japan or japanese owned built here in the same price range. I've driven fords all my life and have never had a major recall or problem out of any of them. I've owned 2 new jeeps, this kj being my 2nd, the first was an 02 wrangler and a lot of used jeeps over the years and they've all been awesome vehicles. Chrysler has had some quality control problems in the past, but seem to be doing better now. The media has people brainwashed, the japanese can do no wrong and the americans can do no right. Pick up any copy of motor trend, truck trend, car and driver and so on. All they do is bash american products and praise the japanese, it's sicking. When it comes to 4x4 of the year, they pick something like the honda ridgeline over a jeep rubicon. I for one, would rather walk than drive japanese, I'm taking a stand, I was born american, I'll die american and I'll drive american. I don't hate japanese, I love all people, but thier doing well while our own companies suffer and I won't be a party to it. America has given me every thing I have, japan has given me nothing but a couple of dead uncles that I never got to meet. The rest of the world craps on us and I'm going to boost thier economy, "I don't think so". I get paid here, and I'll spend it here. Even the japanese cars built here, the profit still goes to Tokoyo, "no thanks" !!!!!!!

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:06 am

wendell wrote:

Even the japanese cars built here, the profit still goes to Tokoyo, "no thanks" !!!!!!!

I didn't want to bring this one up... But you're right so why not. Any and all profits related to sales, production or R&D is financed out of Japan. Meaning that all money feed back into that system is sent back to Japan where it may collect intrest in a Japanese bank.

Emos Way · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:43 pm

Fair enough .. .the profits go back to Japan, along with investments and everything else..

But let's keep it in mind.. they could keep building the car out of country and they still would be striking our economy.. but they are building some models here.. which means jobs for more North Americans... the profits go out of country and I agree, when it comes down to workers the wages go in their pockets.. I could be wrong but I don't hear a lot of people saying "stop creating work"..

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:47 pm

True... What really gets me is China though - we can't import more than a set number of vehilces there but the can import as many as they want here.

BTW - you guys up in the great white north are going to be building the Chevrolet Camaro soon again.

Emos Way · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:30 pm

sleeve84028 wrote:

True... What really gets me is China though - we can't import more than a set number of vehilces there but the can import as many as they want here.

BTW - you guys up in the great white north are going to be building the Chevrolet Camaro soon again.

When I read your point, it's clear that we're all on the same page about export/importing.. but let's not use this as an excuse.. the exporting and importing "laws" were set-up by the government (I'm pretty sure) and not the automotive industry.. This could turn into a whole other arguement (not that I'm against verbal exchanging). All in all importing/exporting laws will have nothing to with the quality of the automobile.. just my $0.02...

Camero looks good.. but I wanna see the new challenger hit the streets..

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:43 pm

Let's see.....make one Japanese man rich or make one American man rich? Does THAT really matter? One rich sensored word in the world and it doesn't matter to me what country they are in. They are rich off of us and we are poorer. That is what it is about. Profits go to stockholders. Usually one person is a major stockholder and they make most of the money.

How many jobs would be lost and Americans out of jobs and in the poor house if the Japanese closed down their plants in the USA?

This country isn't about buying "American." It is about Capitalism and the liars, cheaters, and corrupt owners (and politicians that help) that can get all the power to make their business survive over the others. Talk about brainwashing......."Buy American" is a brainwashing theme. As a capitalist, you buy the best for what you want and can afford (actually it is "Can't Afford"). :lol:

Wendell, You can't tell me everything you have/own is American made/grown. Don't eat any bananas or drink coffee.

Maybe if people start thinking of everyone as one and not Us vs Them, the world would be a better place. I know, it will never happen with all of the problems out there especially the religious nuts that think their religion is better than the other persons religion and is willing to fight over it. Another topic for another forum.

adamkrz · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Just bought a new Pontiac G6 for my wife,For 17k it was alot more car than the hondas and toyotas we looked at,We traded a 1994 grand am we had for 12 years with zero problems.

We also own a 97 honda civic which is a good car but has plenty of repairs the last 2 years but also have a 2002 chevy s10 with many issues,The worst car I have owned was a Mazda626 with plenty of ford parts..

gone_jeepin · **Posted:** Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:55 pm

So from what i've gathered is that since foreign cars are obviously built in foreign lands that we shouldn't buy them!?!? I understand that when you buy foreign things that it cuts back on the US economy, but how many people bought electronics for christmas or how many people wear clothes made by Ralph Lauren or Nike??? Those things are also made overseas! I would even guess that 85% of the toys in your local toy store for instance Toys' R Us are made in china. So should we quit buying everything made overseas??? My answer is NO, i like my Polo clothing made in Bolivia, and i even like my moms VW diesel bug made from parts from Germany and put together in Mexico. I think we are just over analyzing things just a little bit. I'm done now : )

"What you Drive, Drives America" the Level Field I

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