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My front alingnment story...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22619		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Science_Guy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  My front alingnment story...
I have an interesting alingnment story I wanted to share and get feedback on.

In October of last year I lifted my 2004 KJ with a Rusty lift. I had an alingment done on it after about 300 miles and one offroad trip after. The specs at that time were:
Left Front
Camber Actual -0.6 Before -0.2 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.9 Before 1.9 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.09 Before 0.12 Range 0.04 0.16

Right Front
Camber Actual -0.4 Before -0.8 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.5 Before 1.5 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.04 Before 0.06 Range 0.04 0.16

Everything was going great. Drove great and I took it offroad a few more times. Earily this year, I took in my jeep to the dealership to have the LBJ recall done. I was concerned they would give me a hard time with the lift but they did not say anything so I did not push them on if they did anything to the alingment. My wife noticed that the jeep was now pulling right when breaking but I did not think that was a hugh deal. I rotated the tires once, again not seeing anything that raised my concern.

On July 5, we leave for a 5000 mile trip to Jackson, WY. After two days of driving we arrive in Jackson, WY. As I begin looking the jeep over, I notice the front tires are not wearing right. Both front tires were showing wear on the outside. I thought about my options and decided to wait until I got home to a trusted shop to get it looked at. Yesterday I took the jeep to a local shop and, as expected the front alignment is WAY off:
Left Front
Camber Actual -0.4 Before -0.4 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.9 Before 1.9 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.78 Before 0.72 Range 0.04 0.16

Right Front
Camber Actual -0.5 Before -0.5 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.8 Before 1.8 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.75 Before 0.84 Range 0.04 0.16

I called Rusty just to check on the specs and they said just set them back to factory specs. We were able to correct them and rotate the tires again.
Left Front
Camber Actual -0.6 Before -0.2 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.9 Before 1.9 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.10 Before 0.72 Range 0.04 0.16

Right Front
Camber Actual -0.4 Before -0.8 Range -0.8 0.0
Caster Actual 1.5 Before 1.5 Range 3.4 4.4
Toe Actual 0.10 Before 0.84 Range 0.04 0.16

The two front tires now look like this:
Image

Image

My thinking is that the jeep dealership did something while replacing the LBJ that messed up my front alignment. I know there has been some debate on these forums if a realignment is part of the LBJ recall. Tech at Rusty's thinks that is where the problem was. Tech at Goodyear says they really could not say without knowing how jeep did the LBJ recall. I am going to contact the jeep dealership today with these facts to see if they will credit me some of the value of the tires. Depending on how that goes, I may also contact the DaimlerChrysler Company people. My fear is they will say, you have a lift so we owe you nothing. My plan is to not mention the lift just as I did not mention it when I took it in for the recall. We will just have to see how it goes...

Thoughts?
Author:  new92xj [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I would suggest IFS suspensions s/b aligned after replacing BJ's all the time. Depending on the set up, doesn't take much to move things around.
My VW is a good example. BJ changes result in a necessary alignment all the time.
Author:  Science_Guy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
new92xj wrote:
I would suggest IFS suspensions s/b aligned after replacing BJ's all the time. Depending on the set up, doesn't take much to move things around.
My VW is a good example. BJ changes result in a necessary alignment all the time.


Some here agree and others with say it depends on how the LBJ were replaced. As I understand it, it really depends on how the IFS was taken apart (if the control arm was taken off...) Either way, it really does not matter to me other then my situation seems to show something was messed up and I would hope jeep would help cover some of the cost.
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good Luck you know they will find some excuse, plus if nothing else they will say it was OK when they had it in the shop and you must of hit a hole or a curb on the trip
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
How many miles do you have on those tires?

And I agree with tommudd. From what Ive read, DC says that an alignment is not required with new balljoints. :?
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Unless you can verify that it was in alignment every day up to the ball joint replacement and then afterwards afraid you may be stuck with buying new tires. Of course they look as if they were getting pretty worn down anyways. Slight wear on one side but otherwise ready to replace. You can get an alignment done and go three miles and if you hit something the right way it will be out, so well like I said before good luck.
Author:  QuestMan [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
A year ago, my liberty was pulling to the left. I took it to Pep Boys, they couldn't align it. I took it to the dealer, they tried 3 times, then finally took it to an alignment shop, which was able to correct the problem. After I had the LBJ, it now pulls to the right. I didn't do anything, since I was going to lift it in a couple of weeks. After lifting, I drove for a month, then had my local mechanic align it. It STILL pulls to the right, I took it back to my mechanic, and he said, "It's in spec. You know, after you lift, you can't always GET it aligned, correctly". I KNOW taking back to the dealer won't help, since they are going to claim, "The lift did it".

I'm going to take to the alignment shop, and see if they can do their magic, again.

The long and short of it is, my alignment has been off since the LBJ recall. I suspect that the previous alignment corrected a problem that was caused by the ball joints as they wore. Now that the new ball joints are in, the previous alignment is shifting the Jeep off in the other direction.

There's a good deal of irony in my previous comments. Of this, I'm certain. :?
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine has NEVER been in any dealership, only time in any garage was for alignment(s) at a good local shop that all the guys have been around vehicles there whole life, they get mine in specs as close as they can, and going down the road at 75 I can take my hands off anytime and it tracks true. Search out a good local shop and let them align it.
Oh I guess mine is in the LATE NITE CREATIONS garage every night but thats a little different! :wink:
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine has pulled to the right for along time now. Its been aligned twice and the tires are wearing great.
Author:  Science_Guy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
tommudd wrote:
Unless you can verify that it was in alignment every day up to the ball joint replacement and then afterwards afraid you may be stuck with buying new tires. Of course they look as if they were getting pretty worn down anyways. Slight wear on one side but otherwise ready to replace. You can get an alignment done and go three miles and if you hit something the right way it will be out, so well like I said before good luck.


The only tires showing wear are the two that were on the front. The others look like new. I have only had them for about 18 months. I contacted the service manager at the dealership who said we have done over 300 LBJ recalls without any trouble and followed the DaimlerChrysler recall instuctions. He said what you did tommudd in that there are many things that could cause a problem. A pothole was just one of the examples he gave. I did not mention to him I take it offroading. I also called DaimlerChrysler customer service who took down my story, but said they could do nothing more then that. I have since called the general manager at the dealership who said he would look into it. He called back later but I was not here. He sounded like he was eager to help me. I told him that they have always treated me fairly and I was eager to continue giving them my business. I am not asking for new tires but some compensation for the wear is fair IMO (but I am biased). He seemed to understand a token payout will go along way to secure a repeat customer.
Author:  struggle07 [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
what dealer do you go to? just curious.
Author:  Science_Guy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
struggle07 wrote:
what dealer do you go to? just curious.


Tom O'Brien of Greenwood is who sold me my jeep (used) and who did the LBJ recall. I do most of the service myself.
Author:  tommudd [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
WELL ...if it is just the front two then that is a little different, some dealers will try and help as long as you talk to them pretty good, I thought that if all four had the same but then thats a different story (with just the front ) They really dont look feathered much at all, but I have seen new tires were off in 2/3000 miles before due to alignment issues

Good Luck

tom
Author:  LiLredLibby [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Science_Guy wrote:
tommudd wrote:
Unless you can verify that it was in alignment every day up to the ball joint replacement and then afterwards afraid you may be stuck with buying new tires. Of course they look as if they were getting pretty worn down anyways. Slight wear on one side but otherwise ready to replace. You can get an alignment done and go three miles and if you hit something the right way it will be out, so well like I said before good luck.


The only tires showing wear are the two that were on the front. The others look like new. I have only had them for about 18 months. I contacted the service manager at the dealership who said we have done over 300 LBJ recalls without any trouble and followed the DaimlerChrysler recall instuctions. He said what you did tommudd in that there are many things that could cause a problem. A pothole was just one of the examples he gave. I did not mention to him I take it offroading. I also called DaimlerChrysler customer service who took down my story, but said they could do nothing more then that. I have since called the general manager at the dealership who said he would look into it. He called back later but I was not here. He sounded like he was eager to help me. I told him that they have always treated me fairly and I was eager to continue giving them my business. I am not asking for new tires but some compensation for the wear is fair IMO (but I am biased). He seemed to understand a token payout will go along way to secure a repeat customer.


How many miles in the 18 months?.......How many times have you rotated them? Be prepared to show them that you have rotated them at least every 9,000 miles or more.We deal with this on a daily basis.With every set of 4 tires we sell,we due a "Free" rotation,not to sell our tires,but to make sure they will wear evenly for their warrant period.All they have to do is show up every 9,000 miles,and most will neglect to do it.

Ron
Author:  Science_Guy [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
It is hard to say how many miles I have gone but I will estimate about 25k. I rotated the tires myself so that will be impossible to prove. I did a rotation every other time I changed the oil (3,000 miles). I did not notice a problem until I drove it the 1500 miles from IN to WY at 70 MPH.
Author:  LiLredLibby [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Science_Guy wrote:
It is hard to say how many miles I have gone but I will estimate about 25k. I rotated the tires myself so that will be impossible to prove. I did a rotation every other time I changed the oil (3,000 miles). I did not notice a problem until I drove it the 1500 miles from IN to WY at 70 MPH.


Thats about right for suv's and 4x4's.My tires also show hard outside edgewear after just 3,000 miles and only 4 months of service.I feel mine is justifiable,cause when I aligned it,without Al's upper a-arms,I could'nt get camber close enough to prevent it.I've been putting off buying them,but I'm thinking that they might be a good investment.

Ron
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can say without a doubt that Fremont Motors in Lander (they may even have a branch in Jackson, not sure) would have done an alignment for you, for nothing and not have said ANYTHING about a lift. Good luck getting everything you want. I'd agree that a LBJ replacement of any kind should include an alignment.
Author:  Dutchy [ Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Had exactly the same thing, only on the inside of my front tyres and it started going wrong after the second ball joint recall.

I showed it to my tyre and brake specialist and he told me that the dealer should have done an alignment after repacing the ball joints.

I have the tyres checked for uneven wear every 5000 Miles or so and before the recall they where 100% ok and 4000 Miles after the recall I had to replace them still with 5MM in the middle and totally bald at the sides.

My KJ is total stock and until now has allways been serviced by the same Jeep Dealer.
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