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Weak Reverse, Rough Shift 1st to Second.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24327		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  xm15e3 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Weak Reverse, Rough Shift 1st to Second.
My wife's 03 KJ (3.6L 45RFE 4x4) started acting up about 8K miles after having the tranny flushed. Flush was at 90K she has 98K on it now.
Local Mom and Pop shop proudly proclaimed they used ATF +3 w/ Lubegard black..that pissed me off. After about 1000 miles on this mix we noticed it would occasionally slip shifting from 1st to 2nd, and then catch abruptly. This was typically when accelerating somewhat aggressively and may have happend 4 times in 8K miles.

Then, we noticed it would shift into reverse, but not pull itself up a steep grade in reverse. Lots of shutter, almost like a clutch is slipping. We immediatly took it back to the mom and pop shop, paid them $90 for a "diagnostic" and to hear them extole the virutes of Lubegard (they are Napa affiliated). They claim to have pulled; P0731 Incorrect 1st Gear Ratio, P0732 Incorrect 2nd Gear Ratio, and P1790 After Shift Fault (doesn't exist, P1790 is TCM Check sum). They also noted that they do not change the filters when they do a flush (our bad, should have checked). So the poor thing went 90K on original fluid and filter (yes, we deserve what we have comming to us..but really she's Schedule A personified...).

So, we took it to a dealer to have tranny flushed with ATF +4. Dealer claimed no-codes found and function checked fine. The jeep drove like new for a week (reverse was stronger, but still slipping) , Now it is back to where we started. I was able to force a miss shift and get the engine light on so the dealer will have a code to look at. However, the tranny oil looks about the same color, and has the same odor and Mercon/Dexcron.....Apprently ATF +4 should smell different.

Any thoughts?
Author:  Guest [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have Dexron III in my 45RFE with an additive (used specifically for Hondas and Chryslers, like the stuff you mentioned)

Transmission performance is flawless. Did you have them change the filter too?

As long as you evacuate the entire system of ATF4, you can even use REGULAR Dexron III with no ill effects. the problems come when all you do is drop the pan and drain it, and then fill it back up, which is commonly misunderstood as a flush. a FLUSH is when you have the transmission use its own power to purge the old and suck up the new, usually with a flush machine which is basically two glorified buckets with a volume counter. if you just drop the pan and drain it and refill, that's not a flush, and you will always run into problems if you don't replace the filter frequently.

BTW, crawl under your KJ and look at the sticker on the driver's side of your transmission, above the pan. if it doesn't say RFE on it, it's a 42RLE.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
You should only use ATF+4 in the 45rfe. That is most likely the reason of the slipping.

I personally do not like a flush. Everyone says they are ok but I hear alot of people complain after getting one done.

Dropping the pan every 30k along with a filter change seems like the best all around thing to do for a tranny IMHO..
Author:  xm15e3 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:
.

BTW, crawl under your KJ and look at the sticker on the driver's side of your transmission, above the pan. if it doesn't say RFE on it, it's a 42RLE.


No sticker, but she had the joggled cross member and an April 03 manufacture date (possibly one of the last RFEs). Yah, the filter went way to long. I didn't start reading up on them until things started acting up.
Author:  Guest [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
As long as you don't wait until your fluid is BLACK to flush your transmission, flushes are great. I flush mine every 30k, then drop the pan and install a new filter.

Maybe you SHOULD only run ATF4 in the 45RFE, but the stuff with the additive works just fine. If all you're doing is dropping the pan and changing the filter and filling, then you SHOULD only use ATF4 to avoid mixing em. I've never tried it, but it's cheaper to listen to people that say don't mix ATF4 and Dexron/Mercon III than to find out the hard way.

I'd like to know what the difference is in the chemical composition of the two that would make the transmission slip with the DexIII? anybody?

If it was already acting up and you hadn't changed the filter, then I think you're a little quick to judge the shop that performed the work. Once a trans starts acting up it's a bit too late, visit a transmission shop and get their opinion
Author:  kjfan18 [ Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
My jeep also shutters when in reverse on an incline, but i think its kind of normal for jeeps since my 95 grand cherokee did it and my buddys 2002 grand cherokee also does it. I think it may be something to do with the programming in the transmission.
Author:  Guest [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:01 am ]
Post subject: 
it's not normal. consult a transmission shop.

I'm not good with actually working with automatic transmissions, since as far as I'm concerned they're a magic box bolted to the back of the motor that makes things happen and I have to change fluid every 30k, but the reverse clutch and planetary set and pump (or something like that) are related to forward gears too, so GET IT CHECKED OUT ASAP. Fix it now, or spend MORE later to fix things that AREN'T wrong NOW.
Author:  Rush345 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  A diffferent way to flush
Back in 1976 or 1977 I had a Datzun 260 Z 2+2 with automatic. I had already started using Amsoil way back then but this is how different things were. Amsoil had not started making ATF yet just engine Oil gear lube and wheel bearing grease. Any way I had to replace the rear end so I figured why not go all synthetic with this repair. After much discussion with my Amsoil sponser I went to my Mech and told him to put this Amsoil gear lube in change over the engine oil an drop the tranny pan change tranny filter then start filling the Auto trans with Amsoil 10W-40 synthetic engine oil disconnect the return line from the radiator and when he saw the engine oil coming out the return line hook everything back up and top it off. After a lengthy discussion as to my intelligence sanity and parentage I got him to agree to to it. At the end of the day when I showed up to pick up my "Z" he was shaking his head and said he couldn't beleive it. The car not just ran it ran darn good better then anything he had ever seen. That day I set up my first Amsoil dealer. If you don't have the true equipment needed to do a true flush try that technique and "OH YEAH try AMSOIL". Stange tail but true. :lol:
Author:  Sir Sam [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A diffferent way to flush
Rush345 wrote:
Back in 1976 or 1977 I had a Datzun 260 Z 2+2 with automatic. I had already started using Amsoil way back then but this is how different things were. Amsoil had not started making ATF yet just engine Oil gear lube and wheel bearing grease. Any way I had to replace the rear end so I figured why not go all synthetic with this repair. After much discussion with my Amsoil sponser I went to my Mech and told him to put this Amsoil gear lube in change over the engine oil an drop the tranny pan change tranny filter then start filling the Auto trans with Amsoil 10W-40 synthetic engine oil disconnect the return line from the radiator and when he saw the engine oil coming out the return line hook everything back up and top it off. After a lengthy discussion as to my intelligence sanity and parentage I got him to agree to to it. At the end of the day when I showed up to pick up my "Z" he was shaking his head and said he couldn't beleive it. The car not just ran it ran darn good better then anything he had ever seen. That day I set up my first Amsoil dealer. If you don't have the true equipment needed to do a true flush try that technique and "OH YEAH try AMSOIL". Stange tail but true. :lol:


ew, s30 2+2!
Author:  wildrussian [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Rush345 wrote:
Back in 1976 or 1977 I had a Datzun 260 Z 2+2 with automatic. I had already started using Amsoil way back then but this is how different things were. Amsoil had not started making ATF yet just engine Oil gear lube and wheel bearing grease. Any way I had to replace the rear end so I figured why not go all synthetic with this repair. After much discussion with my Amsoil sponser I went to my Mech and told him to put this Amsoil gear lube in change over the engine oil an drop the tranny pan change tranny filter then start filling the Auto trans with Amsoil 10W-40 synthetic engine oil disconnect the return line from the radiator and when he saw the engine oil coming out the return line hook everything back up and top it off. After a lengthy discussion as to my intelligence sanity and parentage I got him to agree to to it. At the end of the day when I showed up to pick up my "Z" he was shaking his head and said he couldn't beleive it. The car not just ran it ran darn good better then anything he had ever seen. That day I set up my first Amsoil dealer. If you don't have the true equipment needed to do a true flush try that technique and "OH YEAH try AMSOIL". Stange tail but true. :lol:


Hold on here... You used 10w-40 engine oil in the transmission? is that even legal? :lol:
Author:  Rush345 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
wildrussian wrote:
Rush345 wrote:
Back in 1976 or 1977 I had a Datzun 260 Z 2+2 with automatic. I had already started using Amsoil way back then but this is how different things were. Amsoil had not started making ATF yet just engine Oil gear lube and wheel bearing grease. Any way I had to replace the rear end so I figured why not go all synthetic with this repair. After much discussion with my Amsoil sponser I went to my Mech and told him to put this Amsoil gear lube in change over the engine oil an drop the tranny pan change tranny filter then start filling the Auto trans with Amsoil 10W-40 synthetic engine oil disconnect the return line from the radiator and when he saw the engine oil coming out the return line hook everything back up and top it off. After a lengthy discussion as to my intelligence sanity and parentage I got him to agree to to it. At the end of the day when I showed up to pick up my "Z" he was shaking his head and said he couldn't beleive it. The car not just ran it ran darn good better then anything he had ever seen. That day I set up my first Amsoil dealer. If you don't have the true equipment needed to do a true flush try that technique and "OH YEAH try AMSOIL". Stange tail but true. :lol:


Hold on here... You used 10w-40 engine oil in the transmission? is that even legal? :lol:


Back then that was all Amsoil had available I like the mechnanic couldn't beleive me ears when I first heard it but as I said as strange as it sounds that was what was reccomended. Much to alls surprise it worked. The way it was explained to me was Automatic trams fluid at that time was just a cleaned up vegatble oil with some extra addidtives. Not as sufisticated as fluids today. Remember this was back around 1977,. Computers running your cars was something from Star Trek or Star Wars. I was only 21 back then so when my Amsoil sponcer told me to use it and that this was the procedure to do it. I was just as surprised that it not only worked it did a great job :shock: :shock: . But the procedure for the flush was more of the point I was trying to make :roll: AS I stated earlier Strange But TRUE :o
Author:  meh_kick [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 
I think I remember reading on the forum that it was good to take it to the dealer and have them do a "quick learn" procedure on the Jeep's computer to correct the funky-ness after a tranny flush. Takes a couple minutes to reset the vitals...

EDIT: Check out this link for more info. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=14750
While the linked thread is addressing for "clunks" and "hard shifts", the procedure will probably help you too.
Author:  wildrussian [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey Rush I got another question
so the mechanic took off the tranny pan, disconected the return line and started filling it up?
I don't know exactly whats inside the tranny but wouldn't oil just pour out when you fill it up with the pan not on?
Am I missing something?
Author:  Rush345 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:05 am ]
Post subject: 
wildrussian wrote:
Hey Rush I got another question
so the mechanic took off the tranny pan, disconected the return line and started filling it up?
I don't know exactly whats inside the tranny but wouldn't oil just pour out when you fill it up with the pan not on?
Am I missing something?


I thought I had said that he had put in the new filter and then put the pan on before pouring in then oil then unhooked the return line then continued to pour in oil while the old was pushed out through the return line. When he saw the differnt color (oil) coming out stoped the motor, toped it off and test fdrove it surprised on how well it ran.
I didn't mean to be confuseing, some times I'm writing so fast I will miss a detail that I truly wanted to state. :oops:
Author:  Rush345 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:05 am ]
Post subject: 
wildrussian wrote:
Hey Rush I got another question
so the mechanic took off the tranny pan, disconected the return line and started filling it up?
I don't know exactly whats inside the tranny but wouldn't oil just pour out when you fill it up with the pan not on?
Am I missing something?


I thought I had said that he had put in the new filter and then put the pan on before pouring in then oil then unhooked the return line then continued to pour in oil while the old was pushed out through the return line. When he saw the differnt color (oil) coming out stoped the motor, toped it off and test fdrove it surprised on how well it ran.
I didn't mean to be confuseing, some times I'm writing so fast I will miss a detail that I truly wanted to state. :oops:
Author:  wildrussian [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:22 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Rush I got in now.

xm15e3 Im sorry about hijack. :(
Author:  xm15e3 [ Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
No worries, it's all good info.
Author:  JohnnyCash [ Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:58 am ]
Post subject: 
kjfan18 wrote:
My jeep also shutters when in reverse on an incline, but i think its kind of normal for jeeps since my 95 grand cherokee did it and my buddys 2002 grand cherokee also does it. I think it may be something to do with the programming in the transmission.

That's normal for the 42RLE. It's doesn't seem like a good thing, but it's normal.
There are a few threads on it. My '07 does the same thing.
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