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| Will gas be around in 15 years? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26177 |
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| Author: | dieselenthusiast [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Will gas be around in 15 years? |
This is an interesting thought. Seems like our world is trying to move away from gasoline engines, at least from using straight petroleum based gasoline. I love my KJ, but will I be able to buy straight gasoline for the Liberty 10-15 years from now? If so, how much will it cost? We see Diesel moving to the world market and now creeping in the United States. Diesels can burn various forms of fuel, both plant based, petroleum based, or coal based. Nissan, Toyota, GM, Chrysler, VW, Ford, and many other domestic and foreign auto manufacturers are wanting to fade out the gasoline engine. Of course the auto manufactures do not want to make it public as they try to sell current gasoline engines. Even with the current rise of ethanol, our KJ’s can’t run those blends of fuel either. So what is the future for straight Gasoline engines and how does this effect your KJ 10-15 years from now? |
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| Author: | JJsTJ [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:07 pm ] |
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I'm thinking of looking into converting to CNG for my current gas powered Jeeps. Imagine a CNG engine w/ full synthetic oil and by-pass filtration. The clean burning properties of CNG and longevity of the syn oil and you could probably go a million miles w/out a full oil change. Heck, big diesel rigs are going hundreds of thousands on initial oil changes so CNG should go much further. I would also like to delve into a bio diesel powered Jeep in the future too. It certainly isn't going to get any cheaper to drive gas powered vehicles in the coming years. On the lookout for an early diesel powered XJ to work with. |
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| Author: | snowsport [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:07 pm ] |
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I think it will be still available, and the cost will likely be significantly higher than it is now, in terms of percentage of your overall budget. As the demand for non-gasoline/diesel vehicles increases, the demand for gasoline/diesel will gradually decrease. The "smart" money will be on alternatives. The "fun" and "interesting" and "actually have a life" money will still be on internal combustion engines. For a while. Til the pumps dry up. That'll be more than 15 years though, much more IMO. |
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| Author: | Cowcatcher [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 2:22 pm ] |
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This is an interesting interview I reviewed this moring in the "reading room". Of particular interest is his comments on creating bio-mass synthetic fuels that mimic todays gas and diesel. Check it out: http://www.newsweek.com/id/62308 |
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| Author: | myjeepwalks [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:14 pm ] |
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12years ago when i got my license gas was 90 cents a gallon for premium. I just paid $2.75 a gallon for regular today. The cost of everything has gone way up in the past few years its ridiculous. At this rate in 10-15 years i see gas being $10 per gallon. Think im gonna get a crd next. Just dont want the car payments now. |
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| Author: | dieselenthusiast [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:14 pm ] |
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JJsKJ wrote: I'm thinking of looking into converting to CNG for my current gas powered Jeeps. Imagine a CNG engine w/ full synthetic oil and by-pass filtration. The clean burning properties of CNG and longevity of the syn oil and you could probably go a million miles w/out a full oil change. Heck, big diesel rigs are going hundreds of thousands on initial oil changes so CNG should go much further.
I would also like to delve into a bio diesel powered Jeep in the future too. It certainly isn't going to get any cheaper to drive gas powered vehicles in the coming years. On the lookout for an early diesel powered XJ to work with. The CNG or HCNG are very good options. Here’s my dilemma, I’m thinking about trading the KJ for a Grand Cherokee with the Mercedes CRD. For those of you who don’t know my earlier situation, I had a KJ CRD which unfortunately was a complete disaster. It wasn’t a diesel problem, it was Daimler/Chrysler’s poor design problem. Anyway, according to the “NEW” Chrysler, I’m pretty certain that we will be seeing a Wrangler diesel in our North American market for the 09 year. I know I will want a Wrangler diesel. The Cherokee CRD would give the wife and I the cargo room that the KJ doesn’t have. After reading multiple articles about the future for straight gasoline engines and listening to talk radio concerning peak oil and the motivation for auto manufactures to fade out the gasoline engine, I think the next 15 years will be used as the transition period between petroleum based fuels moving to alternative fuels. Diesel engines will require very little modifications to adapt to newer fuels whereas (nonflex fuel) gasoline engines will require significant changes to the point of unrealistic modifications. Automakers are already designing clean diesels that surpass the EPA guidelines for the future, have reported substantial fuel increases, reduced maintenance costs, and have increased the longevity of vehicles. |
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| Author: | Sir Sam [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:31 pm ] |
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JJsKJ wrote: I'm thinking of looking into converting to CNG for my current gas powered Jeeps. Imagine a CNG engine w/ full synthetic oil and by-pass filtration. The clean burning properties of CNG and longevity of the syn oil and you could probably go a million miles w/out a full oil change. Heck, big diesel rigs are going hundreds of thousands on initial oil changes so CNG should go much further.
I would also like to delve into a bio diesel powered Jeep in the future too. It certainly isn't going to get any cheaper to drive gas powered vehicles in the coming years. On the lookout for an early diesel powered XJ to work with. I had a 96 CNG crown victoria, after 10k miles the oil would still be as clear as the day you put it in, however something would happen to the oil and the engine would develop a lifter tick, new oil always cured it. I was running mobile one in it. very clean running car. CH4, very simple combustion. torquey engine, but not alot of power. |
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| Author: | Pablo [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:34 pm ] |
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Not that I am a naysayer, and am certainly not your run of the mill sierra club tree hugger, but sometimes I think the real question is will we be around in 15 years to worry about it? The water is running out faster than the oil. I can't believe all the people that are moving here in the west. The water table keeps getting lower and lower. Streams that flowed regularly 15 years ago are intermittent today. Then there is good old Georgia, so we can see the water problem is not getting better elsewhere. |
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| Author: | Jeepjeepster [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:40 pm ] |
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I hope its still around b/c I plan on keeping my KJ longer than that! Its going to take me over 10years to get 100k on it. |
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| Author: | Sir Sam [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:44 pm ] |
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Pablo wrote: Not that I am a naysayer, and am certainly not your run of the mill sierra club tree hugger, but sometimes I think the real question is will we be around in 15 years to worry about it? The water is running out faster than the oil. I can't believe all the people that are moving here in the west. The water table keeps getting lower and lower. Streams that flowed regularly 15 years ago are intermittent today. Then there is good old Georgia, so we can see the water problem is not getting better elsewhere.
Well with california STEALING 5.5 million-acre feet of water out of the Colorado river for so many years what do you expect?(thankfully they finally agreed to stop doing that by something like 2013) Course we could go way into detail about the colorado river water compact and the many ways in which it needs revision. |
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| Author: | k99jk99j [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:46 pm ] |
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will gas be around in 10-15 years? heck yes it will. what is going on now is nothing more than a foreign led shake down of the american consumer! i remember when we hit "peak oil" during the embargo in the 70,s. years later it came out that the embargo was a shakedown engineered buy countries over in the middle east. if you believe the above theary or not it doesn't matter we all have to deal with 96$ barrel oil every day! mike |
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| Author: | dieselenthusiast [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:33 pm ] |
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k99jk99j wrote: will gas be around in 10-15 years? heck yes it will. what is going on now is nothing more than a foreign led shake down of the american consumer! i remember when we hit "peak oil" during the embargo in the 70,s. years later it came out that the embargo was a shakedown engineered buy countries over in the middle east. if you believe the above theary or not it doesn't matter we all have to deal with 96$ barrel oil every day! mike
Good observation and interesting theory to throw in the pot. Is there tons and tons of oil that hasn’t been tapped into yet? Will gasoline engines be around for the next 50 years? Is Peak Oil a myth? |
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| Author: | dieselenthusiast [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:56 pm ] |
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Pablo wrote: Not that I am a naysayer, and am certainly not your run of the mill sierra club tree hugger, but sometimes I think the real question is will we be around in 15 years to worry about it? The water is running out faster than the oil. I can't believe all the people that are moving here in the west. The water table keeps getting lower and lower. Streams that flowed regularly 15 years ago are intermittent today. Then there is good old Georgia, sowe can see the water problem is not getting better elsewhere.
Another good observation and twist in our future. Is our climate stable to depend on plant based fuels? Is our economy stable? Will we develop a strong trade for foreign oil for years to come? Is there enough water to irrigate the corn and other plants for ethanol and bio-diesel? |
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| Author: | ATXKJ [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:13 pm ] |
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there's lots of oil left - it's shale oil - not as easy to extract - it's only profitable above $100 barrel - but at that level you open up several new oil fields. so be prepared to pay $5 a gallon - but it's there. |
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| Author: | k99jk99j [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:55 pm ] |
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i also find it "suspicious" that in roughly 100 years of the automobile we are still using the same technology today, that we did on the model t! o yea today's cars have computers and elec windows and fuel injection, but when it comes down to it we are still using the same crank,piston,cam,valve set up. that gets the same mileage (with the same fuel ratio) it did back in the early 1900's. it even uses the same spark plugs as the model t! and in that same time period we discovery the computer, which has revolutionized society, and cures for many illnesses, and diseases, and also transitors for elctronics? and then you still want to tell me our scientific and engineering community can't solve the mpg riddle? come on!!!!! and answer me this! why did a honda civic (crx) in 1985 get close to 55mpg's on the highway and todays civic gets 38-40 roughly on the highway? yea the 1985 model was alot lighter, but why have we gone backwards in the case of the civic? the # one reason is: their is to much MONEY to be made in the world from oil! mike |
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| Author: | JPaul [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 8:09 pm ] |
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Pablo wrote: Not that I am a naysayer, and am certainly not your run of the mill sierra club tree hugger, but sometimes I think the real question is will we be around in 15 years to worry about it? The water is running out faster than the oil. I can't believe all the people that are moving here in the west. The water table keeps getting lower and lower. Streams that flowed regularly 15 years ago are intermittent today. Then there is good old Georgia, so we can see the water problem is not getting better elsewhere.
Ehh, we just need to increase global warming to free up the water that is stuck in the poles. (just kidding!) |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:40 pm ] |
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Going to CNG is good,loose a butt load of power and the fuel range is drastically shortened but a good alternative.But just think,no gas=no CNG either. I think I'll mod my KJ to run on 90% Nitromethane and 10% methenol,can you say 4000HP KJ  !(oh and only about $75 a gallon)
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| Author: | Rush345 [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | In 1978 a guy I knew! |
He was the leads Peugot mechanic at the Cadilac dealership where I works. He helped me modify my 260Z to headers free flow exhaust , Canaon intake manifold and 3 2barrel side draft weber carbs. He had a Ford 66 lowboy oick up truck. Not Lo-rider. Any way he had a motor he had built up himself, 351 Cleveland with a holly double pumper and headers and straight pipes. Every connecter holding this beast together where hardened allen head bolts. But now this is where thing gey different. He 2 wheels a drum next to the tank. Then he starts cranking a pump with a meter and starts pumping pure alcohol into the tank. Don't ask me what kind, I was young and it was a long tome ago. After he reached a mark on the guage that he has adequate amount of alcohol in the tank he pulled over the garden hose and topped of the tank.. By this time I started to think the buy helping me build up my Z was an order of fries short of a Happy Meal. He rocked it back and forth a few times then climbed in and started it up. It not only ran but ran quite well, he bragged that the most fun was going for vehicle inspection and when they said start the truck and he said it is they would tapp the guages an switch machines since it was reading "0". I have lost touch with this guy over the years, but now nothing they call alternative fuel surprizes me  
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| Author: | Guest [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:21 pm ] |
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tjkj2002 wrote: Going to CNG is good,loose a butt load of power and the fuel range is drastically shortened but a good alternative.But just think,no gas=no CNG either. I think I'll mod my KJ to run on 90% Nitromethane and 10% methenol,can you say 4000HP KJ !(oh and only about $75 a gallon)30% nitro/10% castor oil/60% methanol only costs me $25-30 depending on where I go per gallon:) (Yeah, my other hobby keeps me from bitching about gas prices  )k99jk99j wrote: and answer me this! why did a honda civic (crx) in 1985 get close to 55mpg's on the highway and todays civic gets 38-40 roughly on the highway? yea the 1985 model was alot lighter, but why have we gone backwards in the case of the civic?
Funny you raise this point. I figured up my girlfriend's gas mileage (07 Civic) today, and she's averaging just under 31 mpg. my '83 Accord (Although not as nice, but way lighter, and I think the engine is the same size) got about 35 city/40-45 highway. But the other side of it is, your KJ gets better gas mileage than my dad's 84 XJ Wagoneer. The problem with cars nowadays that the fuel efficiency point is driven SO HARD that they're going about it the wrong way. the KJ would get BETTER (highway) gas mileage with a 3.55 or 3.21 gear and a 4.7L V8, and aforementioned Civic would get better fuel economy with Honda's 3.0L DOHC V6 and similarly taller gearing. I could go on all day long about how my old-technology cars got respectable fuel economy in largely stock form with V8s and ancient transmissions (and conversely, ancient engine/trans combos getting dismal mileage)...but that's beside the point. Case in point: the '03 4runner's EPA estimates for a V6 4wd model were 17/20 city/hwy. the V8 (1.3 liters larger, obviously two extra cylinders) was 16/19. That's with no gearing change. obviously, with the bigger engine turning the same RPM on the freeway, you're going to see a bit of a mileage drop. and the last time somebody brought up the mythical 100 mpg carburetor up...I said "Yeah, I used to have one. it was on my 50cc scooter" |
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| Author: | durangotang [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:21 pm ] |
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Will gasoline be around then? Absolutely... it just seems to be going to way of Kerosene. (Remember that gasoline used to be an unwanted byproduct of Kerosene production and was dumped) One would first think that phasing out the gasoline engine would be a ridiculously lengthy process. Could everyone afford the 'new' fuel engines? Probably not until the used market became saturated and the cost of a gasoline engine passed those of the alternative fuels. It would be a MUCH larger version of the switch from leaded to unleaded gasoline.... perhaps in the future people will be adding "gasoline additive" to their CNG haha. But when all is said and done.... I would be pissed because I just bought a new lawnmower....and it isn't a diesel |
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