LOST JEEPS :: View topic - ABS brakes question?

I've noticed this on a few different vehicles now, and I'm sure they all were ABS. When I'm on sheet ice (or deep slush, etc) and I brake, then steer the only thing that happens is the vehicle goes straight and stops, however when I keep the wheel turned, and take my foot off the brakes the vehicle moves in the direction intended. So is this a flaw of ABS on ice, a flaw of the driver not applying brakes hard enough, or maybe a flaw of the vehicle?

Just my .02...
ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice.

Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow.

Well this makes no sense, because Im sure I have ABS. Were there 02 KJs without ABS or am I looking at brakes problem? Next question, if I don't have ABS... can I get it?

Chief BK

Just my .02...
ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice.

Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow.

So can I get ABS installed?

ObiHann wrote:

So can I get ABS installed?

Yes,how much money you got? Because your going to need a butt load to put it in.Your better off learning how to drive then having ABS anyways.It has been found that ABS causes more accidents then prevents by insurance companies.

ObiHann wrote:

Well this makes no sense, because Im sure I have ABS. Were there 02 KJs without ABS or am I looking at brakes problem? Next question, if I don't have ABS... can I get it?

ABS was not standard on any KJ until '06,my '02 KJ does not have ABS.Easy way to tell is open your hood,look at your master cylinder,then look just a little below it and to the passenger side,if you have this(in pic below)............

Then you do not have ABS,if you have ABS there will be a big pump looking thing in place of the above pictured perportioning valve.

Quote:

Not true at all,I have driven ABS equipted vehicles on ice and they will turn just fine with the brakes applied on ice,now if your going like 65mph then no it will not turn very good but at 30mph it will.

Friction is required for traction which is required to turn the vehicle. Not saying you're wrong...I'm just not sold on it. If you are correct, my Libby's ABS is horrible. I really am not happy with the ABS in the KJ. I'd rather not have it. Other vehicles I've had were ok in the ABS department. I can't say that for the KJ.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:	ABS brakes question?
I've noticed this on a few different vehicles now, and I'm sure they all were ABS. When I'm on sheet ice (or deep slush, etc) and I brake, then steer the only thing that happens is the vehicle goes straight and stops, however when I keep the wheel turned, and take my foot off the brakes the vehicle moves in the direction intended. So is this a flaw of ABS on ice, a flaw of the driver not applying brakes hard enough, or maybe a flaw of the vehicle?

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ABS brakes question?
ObiHann wrote: I've noticed this on a few different vehicles now, and I'm sure they all were ABS. When I'm on sheet ice (or deep slush, etc) and I brake, then steer the only thing that happens is the vehicle goes straight and stops, however when I keep the wheel turned, and take my foot off the brakes the vehicle moves in the direction intended. So is this a flaw of ABS on ice, a flaw of the driver not applying brakes hard enough, or maybe a flaw of the vehicle? What you are stating is the absence of ABS.If you had ABS and hit the brakes and steered left/right on ice you would still turn,without ABS the front wheels would be locked thus unable to provide traction to stop and turn until you let off the brakes.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:
Well this makes no sense, because Im sure I have ABS. Were there 02 KJs without ABS or am I looking at brakes problem? Next question, if I don't have ABS... can I get it?

Author:	Chief BK [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Just my .02... ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice. Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Chief BK wrote: Just my .02... ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice. Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow. For sure, but my issue is when I take my foot off the brakes, I steer, but when I apply the brake, I go straight. I just checked the sticker that came on the Jeep, and it looks like the guy that bought it had everything installed (custom order) except abs and the trailer package.

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Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:
ObiHann wrote: Well this makes no sense, because Im sure I have ABS. Were there 02 KJs without ABS or am I looking at brakes problem? Next question, if I don't have ABS... can I get it? ABS was not standard on any KJ until '06,my '02 KJ does not have ABS.Easy way to tell is open your hood,look at your master cylinder,then look just a little below it and to the passenger side,if you have this(in pic below)............ Then you do not have ABS,if you have ABS there will be a big pump looking thing in place of the above pictured perportioning valve. Quote: Chief BK Just my .02... ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice. Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow. Not true at all,I have driven ABS equipted vehicles on ice and they will turn just fine with the brakes applied on ice,now if your going like 65mph then no it will not turn very good but at 30mph it will.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:
So can I get ABS installed?

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:
ObiHann wrote: So can I get ABS installed? Yes,how much money you got? Because your going to need a butt load to put it in.Your better off learning how to drive then having ABS anyways.It has been found that ABS causes more accidents then prevents by insurance companies.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:
tjkj2002 wrote: ObiHann wrote: So can I get ABS installed? Yes,how much money you got? Because your going to need a butt load to put it in.Your better off learning how to drive then having ABS anyways.It has been found that ABS causes more accidents then prevents by insurance companies. Well I dont have buckets of cash so that option is out. Crap. In a emergency situation, my reaction is to always slam the breaks...

Author:	Chief BK [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:
tjkj2002 wrote: ObiHann wrote: Well this makes no sense, because Im sure I have ABS. Were there 02 KJs without ABS or am I looking at brakes problem? Next question, if I don't have ABS... can I get it? ABS was not standard on any KJ until '06,my '02 KJ does not have ABS.Easy way to tell is open your hood,look at your master cylinder,then look just a little below it and to the passenger side,if you have this(in pic below)............ Then you do not have ABS,if you have ABS there will be a big pump looking thing in place of the above pictured perportioning valve. Quote: Chief BK Just my .02... ABS or not...steering the wheel or not, you're gonna go straight on ice unless you have studs or chains and even they're no guarantee that you can steer on ice. Keep in mind we're talking ice, not snow. Not true at all,I have driven ABS equipted vehicles on ice and they will turn just fine with the brakes applied on ice,now if your going like 65mph then no it will not turn very good but at 30mph it will. Friction is required for traction which is required to turn the vehicle. Not saying you're wrong...I'm just not sold on it. If you are correct, my Libby's ABS is horrible. I really am not happy with the ABS in the KJ. I'd rather not have it. Other vehicles I've had were ok in the ABS department. I can't say that for the KJ.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Chief BK wrote: Friction is required for traction which is required to turn the vehicle. Not saying you're wrong...I'm just not sold on it. If you are correct, my Libby's ABS is horrible. I really am not happy with the ABS in the KJ. I'd rather not have it. Other vehicles I've had were ok in the ABS department. I can't say that for the KJ. Sounds like it's time for some better tires.

Author:	Chief BK [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:
My Destinations have been great on everything....except for ice. Then again I've never had any tires on any vehicle that were good on glazed ice.

Author:	sleeve84028 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Chief, the ABS in the KJ will allow you to turn when you are going slow enough that the mementum of the KJ won't plow (the nose) on an icy surface with the ABS in full pulsation. I've never really needed the ABS, but I find it does help when I'm slowing down and not expecting ice. Especially on black ice situations. Another easy way to tell if the KJ had ABS would have been to look for the ABS indicator on the insturment cluster. The light illuminates evertime the KJ is started and the ABS system goes through its self test process.

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Well I didn't check under the hood, but when I start there is no ABS light, and from a driving standpoint, it seems like I don't have it. I guess I will have to learn how to drive again and not just hit the brakes when I am in ice, or see a stopped car...

Author:	Chief BK [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Driving for the conditions is key for any kind of traction control or braking assistance. I see examples of this quite often considering I drive for a living. Some examples are good...others not so good. ABS has saved may lives for sure. It even saved my wife's tail once. Next ice we get, I'm going to experiment with some things in an open parking lot. As previously mentioned though, Newton will likely prevail.

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Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Yea, if youre trying to turn on solid ice it doesnt matter what kinda ESP, ABS, traction you have, youre going straight. Those dang newton laws get you every time. Given you dont have studs or chains. Ive not driven our WK on ice but in the ZJ the ABS just makes a bunch of noises, takes longer to stop, scares the crap out of you b/c you think youre not going to stop, then you stop and realize you never turned.. Works great!

Author:	ObiHann [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:
I guess I'm better with no ABS then...

Author:	sleeve84028 [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Well driving for the conditions is one thing... (being able to turn with or without ABS) but the General public does not know about threshold braking and thus the invention of ABS. It does save lives..