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My life with the KJ... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4394	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Spike6901 [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:	My life with the KJ...
This is simply a narrative of my experiences with my KJ, both my praises and disappointments, over the last year and a half. I guess this is more of a “blog” whatever that is. I came from a wheelin’ background and my first rig was a ’84 Toyota 4x4, then a ’70 Jeep CJ, ’96 Bronco, ’98 XJ and then the ’04 KJ and not one of them wasn’t lifted and modified. I have never wheeled really hard (like you see on tv and such) but I will put a rig to the test and usually get it home safely. I sold my lifted and locked XJ and bought this KJ a year and a half ago and have not been sorry, but not because of the rig’s quality or off-road prowess. It is a great Jeep but has had its share of problems like having the rear end, transfer case and front differential rebuilt under warranty but it is a Jeep and that is to be expected (in my experience). The service guy said that they almost voided it because they found “mud and rocks” in the front skid plate. Again, there is Jeep backing up its “Trail Rated” selling slogan. I knew right form the start that the stock dampers were junk too. The first time I took the KJ wheeling (about two weeks after purchasing it) I was both impressed and very disappointed. It was very stable and rode quite well but the ground clearance under the front differential was a joke. I mean, how can you really do a whole lot with 5” of clearance besides listen to you skid plate sing to the animals and trees? I was impressed at how much the rear axle articulated and how sure footed it was though. It followed the terrain much better than my XJ did. I then took a road trip to Big Bend National Park when the KJ was still stock and every 5 seconds I would wince and the skid plate rang. It was at that point, I decided that if I was going to live with this Jeep, it was going to need a little suspension work. On the other hand, the 8 hour drive to and from the park was quite nice as compared to any other vehicles that I had owned. I really like the way the seats sit up high like a truck. I spent a considerable amount of time researching suspension kits and decided on the Rusty’s kit (no Frankenlift back then) and got it with this club’s group buy last year for a darn good price. I slapped it on and WOW, it really woke this little rig up. I then got rid of the Badyears and installed some 245/75 AT’s and a K&N drop in. Now this rig cracks 20mpg on the highway easy and is much, much improved off road. It also doesn’t look like it could be bested by a mini-van anymore. It actually looks like a real Jeep. I made another trip to Big Bend and quickly discovered that although the rig was taller and was no longer dragging the ground, I topped out the struts quite a bit and if you have done that, it is not a pleasant sound. I quickly realized that 2.5” is really too much lift for the stock suspension geometry as was really wishing for 2” or 1.75” even though that brings it rig closer to the ground. If I did it again I would order 2” BDS springs and use Rancho dampers. I popped the rear diff on a rock so ordered a Rusty’s diff cover when I got back and it fit perfectly. Soon after, the KJ began squeaking, rattling, clicking and making all manor of noises. I figured that something had jarred loose in the front and rear so I busted loose all of the front and rear suspension bolts, cleaned everything up, silicone sprayed the bushing and re-torqued everything down. That helped but it still squeaks and clunks a bit. So, then my rear pinion seal when out for the third time and the rear end was shuttering. I took it in under warranty and they looked at me like I was the devil because the Jeep had been modified. I tried a couple of places and gave up. It really wasn’t leaking very bad and with as often as you need to change the gear grease in these, it wasn’t a problem. The shuddering comes back on occasion but I have attributed that to the limited slip getting confused. If I was starting again would I buy a KJ? No, I don’t think that I would because it just isn’t tough enough and there isn’t much aftermarket stuff for them, but where can you get a 4x4 as capable and as comfortable as this and with these type of amenities for $20k? Nowhere. So, I picked up a FJ40 with 5-6” of lift and 35’s for the real wheeling and leave the family stuff to the KJ which is really what it was designed for. Once it is paid off, I’ll get a Super Duty truck and tow my FJ to the trails for the serious wheelin’. Until then, maybe I will see you on the trails in my little KJ with dogs and kids hanging out of the windows and the air conditioner blasting, lol! …that is if it doesn’t fall apart first.

Author:	pixeldzn [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:
Nice speech, but I'm not quite sure why you took the time to post it here. I don't think the majority of us share your sentiments. Most of us wheel our KJs because it is a challenge. Most of us enjoy modifying our KJs, because again, it is a challenge. I don't think you are going to find many here that share your sentiment. I also don't think you're gonna find as sincere and dedicated a group of 4x4 enthusiasts as you do here. I think it is the unique challenge the KJ provides that bring us all together. Good luck with your new trail rig. Sorry to hear your KJ experiences were so disappointing.

Author:	LibertyCRD [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Yeah, that is true. When I go to these big off-road parks, one of the greatest things is seeing everyone stare at my KJ out on the trail. Let's face it, you don't see many of them out there. Tons of YJs and TJs, and even several XJs....but almost no one wheels the KJ. So for me to be out there in the mud flexing my suspension and squeezing my way through tight obstacles and following all the "real Jeeps" everywhere they go...that is what gives me the great feeling of accomplishment. It's like a challenge...to take these things and make them truly trail ready.

Author:	jpzkj [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Nice story... Im always kind of amazed at people with really built 4x4's running trails that my KJ can do. I've seen people that have spent LARGE amounts of cash on their rigs get irate to see a little KJ follow them up the trail... Nothing quite as cool looking and as tough as a built FJ40 I will agree, have you posted pics of it ? If you haven't already found this...you'll probably be spending some time here http://www.ih8mud.com/

Author:	the1jferg [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Opinions are like stupid Holes, Mine included.
I agree with you Spike, The libby is a substandard 4x4, not useless though. Thats why I purchased a 2 wheel version. As far as those folks that say they do it for the challenge, you can do better with a set of hiking boots. That warranty thing...The dealer told me they were going to see what was wrong with my axle because of my powertrax, I said, "I came in for my ball joint recall, if you open my diff cover I will beat the Flug out of you." I've never had a ford or chevy truck dealer threaten to void a warranty...period It is an Awsome locked 4x2. I have about 10.5 inches of clearance on the rear and more up front. I've yet to bust anything (I've tried), my powertrax sucks, the seats suck, The rear window gets too dirty, the rear wiper is only good to cause scratches, the 16" rims are a stupid Idea. It turns sharp, gets good milage, its strong, carrys grocery bags or camping equipment, and gets me ANYWHERE I've tried to put it off road, including places I should never try to put it. I am changing to Mudders to finish her capability off. I was afraid to bust an axle with the added traction of mud grips, but I no longer care. I've tried to break it with no luck. I can hit an obstacle harder that the 4 wheelers too without the front diff exploding. This actually gets me over and thru a bunch of crappy stuff. About the best 2 wheel drive ever!!

Author:	krazz1e [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:
i agree with what LibertyCRD & pixeldzn had to say. it's about the challenge. I can take my KJ to 95% of the trails around here, and the people I go with doubt I can make it. A lot of time I climb up EASIER. If your lookin for the absolute hardcore trails then that is different I suppose.... my KJ is a great weekend warrior and excellent dd. When I retire it to a trail rig only it may then get a SFA conversion.... until then it's doing a great job. Zero problem here btw. CYA on the trail.

Author:	Eddo [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:
jpzkj wrote: Nice story... Im always kind of amazed at people with really built 4x4's running trails that my KJ can do. I've seen people that have spent LARGE amounts of cash on their rigs get irate to see a little KJ follow them up the trail... Nothing quite as cool looking and as tough as a built FJ40 I will agree, have you posted pics of it ? If you haven't already found this...you'll probably be spending some time here http://www.ih8mud.com/ I think the KJ is an excellent Jeep and has served me wheel. Yes I would love extreme crawler, but I need a DD also. The KJ is no trailer queen. It can really hold its own and done some trail that I though where impossible in moab, along with towing a 2000lbs pop-up to the campsite with easy. The wheel base is just about perfect, and the small overhangs REALLY help. I bought a CJ, lifted it and locked it, because I though the KJ couldn't wheel. Then I lifted and locked the KJ and was darn suprized that the KJ could do just about everything my CJ could and not have reliability problems (brake calibers freeze, ignition module die, valve cover gasket fall out, shackle break, hubs cracking, fuel pump) out on the trail. Getting a new fuel pump or ignition module is not fun in the middle of the desert. Glad I had people willing to shuttle me out to a parts store. I never really though the KJ was that capable, until the lost west people showed me what I can do with it at moab. Then I ended up selling my CJ.

Author:	zeero [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Not everything in this world is absolutely perfect....I tend to agree with the warranty problems DC likes to play with....voiding warranties because of a tire choice or finding mud...my dealer said that he wouldn't warranty repair any failure caused by trail driving......I mean this what I bought the thing for....they sold it as a "Trail Rated" capable vehicle with skid plates, rock rails, locking diff, tail light guards (all show I guess to them)....and continue to do so on every TV commercial, DC website and car show! But the second you wheel it...the dealers are shaking their heads at you like you've done something wrong....mods?? forget it...my dealer in a polite way said they would disown me as a customer....I asked what the whole problem was with it and he said "We're not in the off road business"....so why are ya selling jeeps moron?! Anyway, to H**L with the dealer, my KJ has kicked arse time and time again so far...even with the stock tires and suspension...which will change very soon....but I couldn't have asked for a better vehicle!

Author:	Tokyojoe [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:
I wonder why people say the KJ is not a real jeep. What is a real jeep? Anything that is made by Jeep and has its name on it. That is a Jeep. I get tired of hearing people say they have a Jeep when they are talking about a Wrangler, but when you (the KJ owner) say you have a Jeep, they tell you that isn't a Jeep. Well, then what is it? It IS a Jeep. Same as a Grand Cherokee. Same as the Commander. Same as the Cherokee., Same as the Commanche. Same as the Commando. Same as the Grand Wagoneer. If you wanted a vehicle that could be modified with huge tires and super lift, you shouldn't have bought the KJ. That is that. The Wrangler has been around forever and is long known as the off-road vehicle of choice. Why would you buy a KJ and think it could be the same thing? It is not. In about 2-3 yrs, when warranty's have expired and more and more people are ready to truly modify the KJ for huge lifts, I promise that there will be a lot of mods coming out for the KJ. In the meantime, the KJ is too new of a Jeep and still misunderstood as an off-road capable vehicle. It is LOST that is leading the way to make these changes. Not in building the mods, but in getting the builders to look at the possibility of making mods for the KJ. Patience is needed here. We have barriers to break just like many other things in life having to go through that. Time is needed. I bought my KJ not to be an "Off-roader" but to be able to go to many places throughout the Rocky Mountains that others could not so I could enjoy all the Rockies have to offer, yet still not break my piggy bank. There are no other small to medium-sized SUV's out there that can provide comfort, be off-road capable, and not cost an arm and leg like the KJ. I was originally looking at the 4-Runner, but it was way too expensive. As far as dealers and warranties. Never had a problem here in Colorado. It might come down to mindset and location. Colorado is known for off-roading and Jeeps are every other vehicle here. Jump in your KJ, be proud of it, and drive on.

Author:	krazz1e [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:
well put Tokyojoe. On warrenty issues, make sure you pickup a new brochure where it has LOST KJ members WHEELING. It says "dozen of local offroad groups are around for you to join" Give that to the service manager and see what he says then....

Author:	the1jferg [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:
One of the most Awsome 4x2's ever

Author:	zeero [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:28 am ]
Post subject:
Yeah around here...KJs are bought to run to work and get the kids to school, grocery shopping....when we bought our KJ and asked specifically for the Renegade 28D package, the sales dude said "Your the first people in about 4 months who have got that package and actually intend to use it" the manager who over heard this wasn't impressed and said "We'll keep it mind that you intend to drive the trails and all that, so when you bring it in with a noise of some kind under it we'll know why"...I laughed like he was just kidding around.....he didn't even break a corner smile....he was serious and not happy. I live in the countryside but the dealerships client base is all yuppies...Young Urban Professionals, who live in the new subdivisions and dont give a rats a about the outdoors or anything. So naturally my dealer is like that. A little disapointing, but really, at the end of the day....I don't give a f-word....I'll do what I want with my KJ....its fun and gets me to those places no one else can go...gets me away from the tourists and day-hikers up in our beautiful Niagara Escaprment and Algonquin Provincial Park ...... up there, my dealership doesn't mean st PS... Sorry for the language...censored...but sorry

Author:	JJsTJ [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:26 am ]
Post subject:
You Go ZEERO! Tell 'em how it is!

Author:	the1jferg [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:44 am ]
Post subject:
One of the most Awsome 4x2's ever.

Author:	Tokyojoe [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:
Zeero, You should've asked for the next higher person from that manager and complained. That is no way to talk to a potential buyer, the customer. You should've put the fear in him by asking to speak to his boss and tell him why you want to speak to him/her. It amazes me how bad customer service is at car dealerships.

Author:	Taz [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: My life with the KJ...
Spike6901 wrote: So, I picked up a FJ40 with 5-6” of lift and 35’s for the real wheeling and leave the family stuff to the KJ which is really what it was designed for. Once it is paid off, I’ll get a Super Duty truck and tow my FJ to the trails for the serious wheelin’. Until then, maybe I will see you on the trails in my little KJ with dogs and kids hanging out of the windows and the air conditioner blasting, lol! …that is if it doesn’t fall apart first. You should trade up to a CRD then you could trailer the Toiletota, and when it breaks down you could take the CRD wheeling, After replacing the stock tires of course.

Author:	zeero [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:04 am ]
Post subject:
Yeah at the point the small discussion occured with the sales manager was the day we were picking it up....it was a factory order and we had to wait 6 weeks for it.....and we had the papers signed and everything, there are two other DC dealers in our area, but the deal was done here. Guys I would have liked nothing more than to have climbed the rank ladder and had a good old fashioned st about this guy....the wife just wanted to get the KJ and go, and so did I. You guys are right, some of you luck out with a decent dealer (the only cool guy was the sales dude at our place) but most of them carry around this attitude of entitlement and a deservist personality. "We are DC and if you don't buy our product we don't care....." I hate it and have dealt with it everywhere I've bought a vehicle around here......at a risk of offending some our othe Canadian members at LOST, I relate most dealerships attitudes to those of our Liberal government...just useless....hey, I'm just there to get my jeep and "F" off. I love the KJ, and all other jeeps and I'm not gonna let some snarky flash in the pan sales manager tell me when where and how I will run my KJ...or use the old "warranty threat" to stop me....I spent nearly 40 grand on the thing....... he can bw me. PS: To all our American members, I just want to say I'm really sorry about our Prime Minister Paul Martin and his Liberal gov't.....he doesn't speak for all of us.

Author:	Taz [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:32 am ]
Post subject:	Get one of these for the Jeep.
http://www.allthingsjeep.com/toretewides.html

Author:	Spike6901 [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Think again fella's!! Toyota recovery team, indeed! But a 8 hour trip in this rig is a horrible thought. Seriously though, I am glad to see some interest and those defending the KJ. I actually drove a brand new Xterra the other day with the 260hp engine and I was not impressed at all. It rode "chippy" and although had good power, it didn't have the torque of the KJ. It helped to make me realize how much better a rig that KJ is.

Author:	the1jferg [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Awsome 4x2 I'm sure a KJ won't be pulling spikes toy out of a bad spot.

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