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Replaced the Front D-Shaft - still got a vibration!
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Author:  Cacher123 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Replaced the Front D-Shaft - still got a vibration!
So, I had the front shaft pulled and rebuilt (had a cracked boot, looked dried out/corroded inside - might be what caused a noise I was having).

Shop charged me $200 to remachine mine, replaced the end with a 13/10 Universal w/flange (I think that's what he said - in any case there's a beefy Universal with a grease fitting on the back end of the front shaft now) and balanced.

Mechanic charged me $100 total labor - He pulled the cross member and my skids to get it in out and then put it back together so I could drive it. Put it back in today. (and he also checked my T-case oils - still look like new)
After it was back in I noticed a vibration at about 15-20 mph. He pulled the shaft again, sent it back to the machine shop and they rebalanced it (verified it was balanced, added a little tiny weight).

Put it back in but now I still have the vibration. Is it possible my front t-case is going?

Vibration is only as I pass 12-15mph and goes away after about 20mph - not bad, but there.

2003 Renegade, barely used off road (2 trips to Paragon) 148K miles though.

Any Thoughts?
Author:  Neatus [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Isn't that shaft supposed to have a CV joint on it? That may be the reason it was built with a CV joint instead of U joints...hmm, just a thought.
Author:  Cacher123 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Neatus wrote:
Isn't that shaft supposed to have a CV joint on it? That may be the reason it was built with a CV joint instead of U joints...hmm, just a thought.


Uhh, Neatus, don't add to my worries! :wink:

From what I understand the U-joint is better, stronger, etc but more expensive (?) so that's why they don't build em that way from factory (?)
Author:  Neatus [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah the U joints are probably stronger but I am pretty suire they used CV joints to reduce vibration. You are probably okay but you may have to live with the low speed vibration.

p.s. I hope you are doing well....tell the little lady I said hi:)
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cacher123 wrote:
Neatus wrote:
Isn't that shaft supposed to have a CV joint on it? That may be the reason it was built with a CV joint instead of U joints...hmm, just a thought.


Uhh, Neatus, don't add to my worries! :wink:

From what I understand the U-joint is better, stronger, etc but more expensive (?) so that's why they don't build em that way from factory (?)
Read part 1 and part 2,you will know why you still have a vibe.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index.html
Author:  Cacher123 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cacher123 wrote:
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
It may be a permanent part of your driveshaft now,but you still have a problem with increased u-joint(and the front CV) wear,increased t-case front output wear,and pinion wear on the D30A that all can be prevented by getting the correct driveshaft for your application.
Author:  Cacher123 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
It may be a permanent part of your driveshaft now,but you still have a problem with increased u-joint(and the front CV) wear,increased t-case front output wear,and pinion wear on the D30A that all can be prevented by getting the correct driveshaft for your application.


Even though I am not lifted?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cacher123 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
It may be a permanent part of your driveshaft now,but you still have a problem with increased u-joint(and the front CV) wear,increased t-case front output wear,and pinion wear on the D30A that all can be prevented by getting the correct driveshaft for your application.


Even though I am not lifted?
Yep,a lifted KJ does not in any way effect the front driveshaft angle since it is still the same IFS.The KJ was not designed for a front driveshaft with a u-joint,it ran 2 CV joints(not the double cardon u-joint CV either) so the angles of the front pinion and front t-case was not a issue.Now that you removed one of the CV joints and added 1 u-joint you now have a "out of phase" condition and/or the angles are incorrect and you are getting that vib at that certain speed.There is nothing you can do for the driveshaft/output's angles so that leaves getting the correct driveshaft for the application.
Author:  Cacher123 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
It may be a permanent part of your driveshaft now,but you still have a problem with increased u-joint(and the front CV) wear,increased t-case front output wear,and pinion wear on the D30A that all can be prevented by getting the correct driveshaft for your application.


Even though I am not lifted?
Yep,a lifted KJ does not in any way effect the front driveshaft angle since it is still the same IFS.The KJ was not designed for a front driveshaft with a u-joint,it ran 2 CV joints(not the double cardon u-joint CV either) so the angles of the front pinion and front t-case was not a issue.Now that you removed one of the CV joints and added 1 u-joint you now have a "out of phase" condition and/or the angles are incorrect and you are getting that vib at that certain speed.There is nothing you can do for the driveshaft/output's angles so that leaves getting the correct driveshaft for the application.


OK, makes sense with what I read....
Are we talkin instant destruction or "Ok until I locate a shaft after the winter?" type of thing?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cacher123 wrote:

OK, makes sense with what I read....
Are we talkin instant destruction or "Ok until I locate a shaft after the winter?" type of thing?
You should be okay for awhile.Check the front pinion angle and compare it to the front t-case output.If they are on the same plane as each other just have the other CV joint hacked off and put a u-joint on that side also,you will need a slip joint added also since the front diff can move some via it's rubber mount bushings.
Author:  Hood297 [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Cacher123 wrote:
I read, I digested as much as I could.

Is this going to be a problem or am I good and that vibe is just par for that driveshaft now and (please tell me) that I don't have a problem........ :? :shock:
It may be a permanent part of your driveshaft now,but you still have a problem with increased u-joint(and the front CV) wear,increased t-case front output wear,and pinion wear on the D30A that all can be prevented by getting the correct driveshaft for your application.


Even though I am not lifted?
Yep,a lifted KJ does not in any way effect the front driveshaft angle since it is still the same IFS.The KJ was not designed for a front driveshaft with a u-joint,it ran 2 CV joints(not the double cardon u-joint CV either) so the angles of the front pinion and front t-case was not a issue.Now that you removed one of the CV joints and added 1 u-joint you now have a "out of phase" condition and/or the angles are incorrect and you are getting that vib at that certain speed.There is nothing you can do for the driveshaft/output's angles so that leaves getting the correct driveshaft for the application.


so would you recommend not getting a custom shaft, like a tom woods? reason I ask is I've already replaced my front DS with another stock unit, and now it needs to be replaced again!
Author:  Wasatch15 [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
I've had a Tom Woods custom front driveshaft for years with ZERO problems. Just make sure you get the one with a double cardan joint (CV) on the transfer case side. There are no vibrations from this shaft.
Author:  FreedomKJ [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Wasatch15 wrote:
I've had a Tom Woods custom front driveshaft for years with ZERO problems. Just make sure you get the one with a double cardan joint (CV) on the transfer case side. There are no vibrations from this shaft.


A double cardan is really not a CV, it's a near-CV, as you'll find if you read the information at the above posted link. But it should eliminate most of the vibration.

Hood: I don't see one listed on his site, but I bet if you called up Tom Woods he could probably build a true CV driveshaft.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
FreedomKJ wrote:
Wasatch15 wrote:
I've had a Tom Woods custom front driveshaft for years with ZERO problems. Just make sure you get the one with a double cardan joint (CV) on the transfer case side. There are no vibrations from this shaft.


A double cardan is really not a CV, it's a near-CV, as you'll find if you read the information at the above posted link. But it should eliminate most of the vibration.

Hood: I don't see one listed on his site, but I bet if you called up Tom Woods he could probably build a true CV driveshaft.
If the pinion shaft is pointed directly at the front t-case output shaft,or at least dang close.
Author:  Wasatch15 [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Replaced the Front D-Shaft - still got a vibration!
My Tom Woods front driveshaft has the double cardan with the ball joint between the cardan joints on the transfer case side. Sorry to confuse anyone. If you are interested in the Tom Woods shaft email me and I'll send you a file of the work and parts it took to get it installed. wasatch@utahbroadband.com. Give me a little time if you email me as I'm not always online.
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