LOST JEEPS :: View topic - CNN/Money Jeep Liberty bash...

I read that exact article the other day and got really angry but kept it to myself. I though about posting about it but didn't. People just dont have a clue what our vehicles can do, nor will they ever give em a chance, at least the media that is... :evil:

-Nick

SD-KJ wrote:

-Nick

Given how popular the Liberty is, I think it's safe to say that the majority of Liberty owners never go offroad, as unfortunate as that is for the Liberty name. In the article's defense, it doesn't say that the Liberty *can't* go offroad, just that the most of their owners don't take them offroad.

But then again, the majority of Grand Cherokee and Commander owners never go offroad, either, the Wrangler is the only one that is still a niche market and not a typical mall-crawling SUV. And even then, I'd say that at least half the wrangler owners out there don't go offroad. The offroading community is a pretty small one, compared to the jeep-owning community. (I certainly didn't see all 90,000 wranglers sold this year out on the trails)

What SHOULD happen is...if you are a soccer mom and want a comfy AWD vehicle then buy a mini van. If you want a speedy vehicle buy a sports car. And leave our 4x4s alone. It's ridiculous.

I would prefer that most did not know and we just keep surprising them on the trail.

One fact that has been missed and I feel should be pointed out is that mass sales (the result of mass production and mass marketing) does have a benefit. There is a price benefit. DC can make a pile of money on relatively slim margins on the Liberty by selling a whole lot of them. Starting prices for a Sport would not be under $20k. The starting price for the CRD would not be in the upper $20k's, it would be in the mid $30k's. and I could not afford much more than I paid for 04 sport after I optioned it the way I wanted it.

DC is a company in operation for the singular purpose of making money. The way they make as much money as possible is by selling as many vehicles as possible. To do that they make vehicles at can have some appeal to the masses. They are not on earth to design your very own dream vehicle for you (unless your dream vehicle is what will appeal the best to the many).

A swiss army knife does a whole lot of things fairly well and is very popular, but is not exceptional in any one area. The Liberty is much the same way. It's a decent on road vehicle, but no family sedan. It's very capable off road (even stock), but it's no modded out TJ. If your Jeep doesn't do what you want it to do, mod it until it does. If you can't mod it to get to where you want to be, get a different vehicle. Either way, shut it! We don't need this argument and soapbox ranting every time someone says something against the Liberty. Not everyone is going to love the Liberty, so we just need to show it's qualities to convince them they are wrong!

Author:	BlueFreedom [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	CNN/Money Jeep Liberty bash...
"At least Compass buyers, as opposed to asphalt-bound Jeep Liberty buyers, will be honest about faking it." Link: http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/ ... clude.html Yet another magazine (though online) that needs to be enlightened. I think L.O.S.T. should interview a Daimler/Chrysler/Jeep engineer and actually ask them how good an off-road vehicle the Liberty is. I think (hope) their answer would shut all these people up! We could forward it to all the editorial sections of all the magazines that put down our Liberty's.

Author:	SD-KJ [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:43 am ]
Post subject:
I read that exact article the other day and got really angry but kept it to myself. I though about posting about it but didn't. People just dont have a clue what our vehicles can do, nor will they ever give em a chance, at least the media that is... -Nick

Author:	Se7enLC [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:51 am ]
Post subject:
SD-KJ wrote: I read that exact article the other day and got really angry but kept it to myself. I though about posting about it but didn't. People just dont have a clue what our vehicles can do, nor will they ever give em a chance, at least the media that is... -Nick Given how popular the Liberty is, I think it's safe to say that the majority of Liberty owners never go offroad, as unfortunate as that is for the Liberty name. In the article's defense, it doesn't say that the Liberty can't go offroad, just that the most of their owners don't take them offroad. But then again, the majority of Grand Cherokee and Commander owners never go offroad, either, the Wrangler is the only one that is still a niche market and not a typical mall-crawling SUV. And even then, I'd say that at least half the wrangler owners out there don't go offroad. The offroading community is a pretty small one, compared to the jeep-owning community. (I certainly didn't see all 90,000 wranglers sold this year out on the trails)

Author:	SD-KJ [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:
Se7enLC wrote: SD-KJ wrote: I read that exact article the other day and got really angry but kept it to myself. I though about posting about it but didn't. People just dont have a clue what our vehicles can do, nor will they ever give em a chance, at least the media that is... -Nick Given how popular the Liberty is, I think it's safe to say that the majority of Liberty owners never go offroad, as unfortunate as that is for the Liberty name. In the article's defense, it doesn't say that the Liberty can't go offroad, just that the most of their owners don't take them offroad. But then again, the majority of Grand Cherokee and Commander owners never go offroad, either, the Wrangler is the only one that is still a niche market and not a typical mall-crawling SUV. And even then, I'd say that at least half the wrangler owners out there don't go offroad. The offroading community is a pretty small one, compared to the jeep-owning community. (I certainly didn't see all 90,000 wranglers sold this year out on the trails) Your exactly right, it just sucks for our community here that we get that shame anywase, on with life... -nick

Author:	snowsport [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:15 pm ]
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Same applies to Hummers, Land Rovers, Big old Ford 4 bys, etc. MOST of them never leave the pavement. I don't know why we all get so fussed up every time one of these mags slam the Liberty. They are doing it to sell mags, no other reason. We know what a Liberty can do, and that's all that matters.

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

CNN/Money Jeep Liberty bash... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5258	Page 1 of 3

Author:	grnd93 [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:19 pm ]
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Honestly.........Who really cares? We know what our vehicles are capable of, that's really all that matters. It is going to take a very long time for the aftermarket to figure out that there is a market for the Liberty. The Grand Cherokee has been around since 93, and the aftermarket for them is just now starting to pick up. My advice, do the best you can with what's available.

Author:	LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:21 pm ]
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Here is the really sad thing: When soccer moms started making SUVs and trucks their vehicles of choice, they ruined trucks for those of us who use them for their intended purpose. Companies know that 90% of the people buying their 4x4s never go off-road. It's more of a security blanket for people. The 4x4 feature is there if they need it. IF is snows... that kind of thing. And these companies know that. So they are marketing their new trucks and SUVs to soccer moms. They are skimping on mechanical features, and adding luxury features. Jeep Liberty has standard power door locks, windows, etc. But it only has 6" of useable ground clearance and the worst tires known to man. By buying SUVs and trucks for their daily drivers, soccer moms have caused companies to change their products to fit them. Meanwhile...those of us who want a truck to do work with, or go off-road with get left out in the cold. What SHOULD happen is...if you are a soccer mom and want a comfy AWD vehicle then buy a mini van. If you want a speedy vehicle buy a sports car. And leave our 4x4s alone. It's ridiculous. The 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickup truck market is the only one left that hasn't been polluted and remains traditional. I could go on all day but this just makes me mad. It almost feels like these soccer moms and city people have invaded our space and have caused our vehicles to change when they should have just stuck to their best suited vehicles to start with. If stats showed that 75% of KJ drivers were males who were adverturous...you better believe the KJ would have lockers and everything.

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:23 pm ]
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I must admit, its turning radius does make it a parking lot dream vehicle. Still a "limited" "4x4" as it says on the side of fender. The "Trail Rated" thing always seemed kinda sissyfied to me. Kinda reminds me of park trails and levels of difficulty. I guess the level of difficulty would depend on your size and shaped frame and your capability, not the number some weenie gave it. Reminds me about the sign at Padre Island Seashore here in Texas, It has a sign thats says something like "4x4's beyond this point". Not recognizing that some of the best Sand runners are 2 wheel drives. I think "off road rated" would be a better term. Kinda means it can do its thang wedder there is a "trail" of not. Awsome 4x2

Author:	JJsTJ [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:35 pm ]
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FWIW, I invited the author, Peter Valdes-Dapena, to visit our site, the forum and KJ WEST's site to see what is really happening in the KJ world. I hope he takes the time to learn. If not, oh well. We all know and that is all that matters. I would prefer that most did not know and we just keep surprising them on the trail.

Author:	Calvin56 [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:47 pm ]
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LibertyCRD wrote: What SHOULD happen is...if you are a soccer mom and want a comfy AWD vehicle then buy a mini van. If you want a speedy vehicle buy a sports car. And leave our 4x4s alone. It's ridiculous. NO way am I going to have a mini van in the family... its just a stigma thing for me. Thats probably why the family vehicle has become the SUV.

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:52 pm ]
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Soccer is a sport, groceries are a utility. Ain't like you can haul a load of mulch in it.

Author:	LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:54 pm ]
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What's going to happen next? Are soccer moms and business men going to start buying farm tractors to mow their yards with? Same principle there. I guess after a short time tractor companies would start "pussifying" their tractors to better accomdate the casual users at home. Next thing you know they'd all have AC, 5 inches of ground clearance, chrome wheels, and street tires. What a joke. I say buy what you need. If you don't go off road or live in the snow belt then don't buy a 4x4 truck or SUV. Those people are ruining it for everyone. Oh well...I'm bound to get flamed for this one. But it just really upsets me. This is why we have to buy watered-down 4x4s these days...because they are being tailored for the street so soccer moms won't complain about the height of the vehicle or fuel economy.

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:58 pm ]
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LibCRD cracks me up Oh yeah, They already do buy those things for lawn mowing, John Deere markets to them very well. Tractors do have A/C, GPS, and DVD.

Author:	zeero [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I would prefer that most did not know and we just keep surprising them on the trail. Exactly right. I couldn't care less what other people think about the Liberty....I like the surprised looks....and the confirming looks...people give you when they see the KJ with its offorad mods cruising about...especially on the trail....I was walking out of a Mall the other day...and young man and what I believed to be his Father, walked past mine....and son said to dad "Theres a Liberty that actually gets used for what it was built for" because it was all muddy, and the Dad said "Yeah no kidding, must be fun, I guess you don't see that to often"....made me feel kinda cool but thats what its all about, one person at a time. No need to try and convinve the whole world at one big time. Just enjoy your KJ knowing what it can do yourself.

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Blank88 said: "the term "LIBBY" sounds feminine" So Does the storm "Katrina" and Davy Crockett's rifle "Betsy"

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Author:	QuietOutdoorsman [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:
One fact that has been missed and I feel should be pointed out is that mass sales (the result of mass production and mass marketing) does have a benefit. There is a price benefit. DC can make a pile of money on relatively slim margins on the Liberty by selling a whole lot of them. Starting prices for a Sport would not be under $20k. The starting price for the CRD would not be in the upper $20k's, it would be in the mid $30k's. and I could not afford much more than I paid for 04 sport after I optioned it the way I wanted it. DC is a company in operation for the singular purpose of making money. The way they make as much money as possible is by selling as many vehicles as possible. To do that they make vehicles at can have some appeal to the masses. They are not on earth to design your very own dream vehicle for you (unless your dream vehicle is what will appeal the best to the many). A swiss army knife does a whole lot of things fairly well and is very popular, but is not exceptional in any one area. The Liberty is much the same way. It's a decent on road vehicle, but no family sedan. It's very capable off road (even stock), but it's no modded out TJ. If your Jeep doesn't do what you want it to do, mod it until it does. If you can't mod it to get to where you want to be, get a different vehicle. Either way, shut it! We don't need this argument and soapbox ranting every time someone says something against the Liberty. Not everyone is going to love the Liberty, so we just need to show it's qualities to convince them they are wrong!

Author:	Guyute1210 [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:
QuietOutdoorsman wrote: One fact that has been missed and I feel should be pointed out is that mass sales (the result of mass production and mass marketing) does have a benefit. There is a price benefit. DC can make a pile of money on relatively slim margins on the Liberty by selling a whole lot of them. Starting prices for a Sport would not be under $20k. The starting price for the CRD would not be in the upper $20k's, it would be in the mid $30k's. and I could not afford much more than I paid for 04 sport after I optioned it the way I wanted it. DC is a company in operation for the singular purpose of making money. The way they make as much money as possible is by selling as many vehicles as possible. To do that they make vehicles at can have some appeal to the masses. They are not on earth to design your very own dream vehicle for you (unless your dream vehicle is what will appeal the best to the many). A swiss army knife does a whole lot of things fairly well and is very popular, but is not exceptional in any one area. The Liberty is much the same way. It's a decent on road vehicle, but no family sedan. It's very capable off road (even stock), but it's no modded out TJ. If your Jeep doesn't do what you want it to do, mod it until it does. If you can't mod it to get to where you want to be, get a different vehicle. Either way, shut it! We don't need this argument and soapbox ranting every time someone says something against the Liberty. Not everyone is going to love the Liberty, so we just need to show it's qualities to convince them they are wrong! So much for being the Quiet Outdoorsman. LOL

Author:	NU ARTY BOY [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:14 pm ]
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Yea, but QuietOutdoorsman is right. The same thing can be said for any vehicle in the Jeep lineup. A run-of-the-mill TJ has 15" wheels and only 8" of ground clearance. Until you put that 3" lift you are limited to 29" or 30" tires. And MOST other Jeep owners (XJ,KJ,TJ,WJ, etc.) do not take their vehicle off the beaten path. Maybe they live on a dirt road that 5 months out of the year is covered with snow or is nothing but mud once the snow melts in April-June timeframe. They like the fact that their vehicle CAN go off road even thought that owner WON'T go to these places. It doesn't matter if they own a Jeep brand SUV or not. Heck, look at the majority of the 4Runner crowd...its only the eary-model owners that get thier vehicles dirty.

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:15 pm ]
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I love the liberty. Is there anyone here that don't ? Probably not. If Jeep really wanted to corner the market, they would reintro the Pick-m-up truck. Awsome 4x2

Author:	BLANCK88 [ Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:38 pm ]
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i could really care less what other people think about the liberty. however, the term "LIBBY" sounds feminine.