Necessary evil: Fuel storage in passenger cabin

Draco · **Posted:** Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:31 pm

Someday I'd like to have a 5 gallon jerry can holder on the rear bumper, or a 20 gallon fuel cell inside (twin tank), or an expedition trailer with fuel storage. But until I hit the lottery, I'm stuck carrying extra fuel inside. Even just for a road trip to California I like to have 5 gallons just in case. And for longer trips in the boonies I'd rather have 10.

I used to have a 5 gallon Blitz plastic jug. That thing definitely vented fuel vapors. So I bought two 5 gallon UPR jugs from a 4WD store, see https://www.upr.com/UPR-Fuel-Jugs-p420.html#.

It just doesn't get any simpler than that. It's a very thick plastic jug. The cap has what appears to be a butyl rubber o-ring. (Not the visible butyl rubber o-ring in the image, which is for the 3/4 inch fitting.) And then there's a little vent cap. Got rid of the Blitz can as I was sure this would solve the problem.

Last time we were out, there were fuel vapors. In fact, there was visible liquid gasoline near the white cap. Apparently it had wicked out somehow past the o-ring!

I'm not sure what else to do. Maybe use some good old duct tape around the base of the cap. I used to be afraid of not letting the jug / can vent for safety, but that's not going to make any significant difference on the volume of the concentrated vapor or the pressure.

Someone down under talked about buiding a box with a gasket to enclose jerry cans. But I would worry about LARGE volumes of unvented fuel vapors. One liter of gas vapor at the top of a fuel jug doesn't seem like a big deal. 60 liters of gas vapor in a big box sounds like a problem.

Maybe I just need to leave the windows open more, but don't like to do that when it's dusty.

It's not something that can't be lived with, but maybe someone knows a solution.

???

SETexasLibby · **Posted:** Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:07 am

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00004Y75M/ref=dp_image_text_0?ie=UTF8&n=286168&s=garden

These are what we use at work. They are commonly used due to their safety mechanisms. Read up on them, some even have UL ratings.

http://www.ehow.com/way_5903913_can-tra ... fely_.html

Also, keep a 2 1/2 lb ABC Fire extinguisher in the car, a safe distance from the fuel but readily accessible

durangotang · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:46 pm

Do you really need to carry the extra fuel THAT badly on these road trips?

If you get in a wreck do you really want to be covered in gasoline?

"I'm on fire!!! I'm on fire!!!"

liquidxit2 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:47 pm

durangotang wrote:

Do you really need to carry the extra fuel THAT badly on these road trips?

If you get in a wreck do you really want to be covered in gasoline?

"I'm on fire!!! I'm on fire!!!"

HALP MEH BABY JESUS!!!! HALP MEH!!!!

tommudd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:41 pm

I don't even carry gas inside for the two miles back into the woods when I'm cutting firewood, would never take it long distance
Has to be a better way if you think you need it

Draco · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:23 pm

SETexasLibby, thank you for the reference to the UL-approved can. I'll definitely check that out. You're right, I have to start carrying a fire extinguisher. Once upon a time I even had an engine fire. The engine burned oil, so had to fill often, so a little accumulated on intake manifold. Had headers so maybe they got hot and ignited it. And someone I work with recently was first to arrive at a wreck where the passengers were afraid of fire and he had no extinguisher. So note to self: carry extinguisher at all times!

Durangotang, I hope I didn't give the impression that I carry gas all the time. It's only once or twice a year. I'll probably buy an external carrier at some point, but there's nothing I could order today and get tomorrow. The lead time on the Rocklizard setup is long. I'd have to go to a custom shop and have something made. Which I could do but would rather do other things first.

Reasons why I like to carry fuel on occasion? Here are a few examples / reasons.

I like to explore new areas and roads. Once I was driving back from the White Mountain Apache Reservation, across the San Carlos Apache Reservation. This is before consumer GPS and in a 4WD pickup that got about 12 mpg and had maybe a 16 gallon tank. I had maps. The roads on the WM Apache Reservation were well signed. So I thought they would be well signed on the SC Apache Reservation as well. They weren't. I knew pretty well where I was, but not exactly and the roads were not marked. So if I made a wrong turn, it would take me 10 mi to figure out the mistake and I would have to backtrack the 10 mi, bye-bye almost 2 gal of fuel. I got lucky and made all the right turns, but I was biting my nails about fuel. It was not a dangerous situation, but stressful.

Another time I'm riding a motorcycle from Flagstaff to Tucson and decide to take a detour on a dirt road that goes by the Meteor Crater, from I-40 to some state highway. On the maps this looks like pretty much a straight shot, no room for navigation error. This motorcycle has no fuel gauge and a fairly small tank. For the most part it was a straight shot, but when it got near the highway it emptied into this maze of dirt roads in a state park, with no signage. It was the middle of the week and the place was deserted so I couldn't ask for directions. There was not enough fuel to backtrack. So I had to bushwhack (on roads, not literally). I found my way out, but once again I was biting my nails about fuel. The relatively large scale map gave no indication of this.

I've driven a lot over rural parts of AZ, CO, NM, KS, OK, TX. In the small farming towns, you can't count on the gas stations being open after 6:00. That's changing somewhat. But also some towns have fewer services than they used to. Partly that means you have to tank up around 5:00. But I like to have a little extra fuel if I'm driving around rural or truly remote areas in the evening.

Let's take SW CO where you are. On the atlas I see dots named Paradox, Bedrock, Egnar, Gateway. Are those all really towns? I grew up one mile from such a dot on a map with a name that had not one single resident. No one ever bothered to take it off the map. I'm guessing most of those are towns or at least hamlets, but do they all have gas stations? And if they do, are they open after 6:00? Of course you can plan your trip to go through larger towns that you know will have gas like Cortez and Durango, but that takes some of the fun out of it. In more sparsely populated SE CO I know that not all of the dots on the map have gas.

For long road trips, I'm mainly talking about road trips in unfamiliar territory, maybe pulling a load. So the first time I drove to San Diego, it was pulling a boat trailer. I can't use overdrive. There are some steep hills, and I don't know where the reliable gas stops are.

Independently of all that, I don't consider the Liberty to have great range. At least a few times a year I manage to have the low fuel indicator light up. How the heck did I run out of gas so quickly?

I'm hoping to go on the El Camino del Diablo run next year. You'd better believe I'll take extra fuel for that.

It's not that I'm carrying fuel all the time. Just once in a while. And when I do, I don't want it to smell!

One thing I think I might try is using self-vulcanizing silicone tape to seal the base of the cap. Supposedly that will hold up to the fuel. I'm not worried about the pressure, and even if that's an issue the vent cap is a pressure relief.

jdorris · **Posted:** Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:57 pm

You can pick up a cheap hitch carrier at W-mart tonight for ~$50. Call it life insurance. I use one with an aluminum truck box for dry storage. Great for 2 week cross country trips. :2cents:

Draco · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:38 am

Thanks for the suggestion, jdorris. A hitch receiver carrier of some kind is a potential solution. I'm not going to go looking for the post now but I remember someone up in central Arizona fabricated something like that.

Maybe I should just use my Surco roof rack. I'd have to add more slats or buy something like the BajaRack jerry can carrier

I'll bet that could be modified to work with the Surco rack. The issue there is I originally got the rack to carry my spare tire when towing a trailer because of interference between the spare and the hitch. I have more drop in my hitch now, which has almost solved the problem. Once the coupler is on the ball it's fine, but maneuvering the coupler above the ball is difficult. If I just raise the spare by an inch or two that problem would go away. Another motivation was to move the tire weight forward to avoid sag of the rear suspension.

When not towing there doesn't necessarily have to be a spare on the roof unless I'm carrying two. I could put the second spare in the cab, but I'd have to make a wooden box to create a platform on which I could load other stuff.

I wouldn't trust my current rack with a spare tire (near 75 lbs I'm guessing with current wheel / tire combo) and one or two 30 lb jerry cans.

I've been meaning to get a quote on a custom rear bumper with fuel carrier from a local shop. Too bad I never learned how to weld. Wouldn't have time anyway now.

Thanks again for the tips!

durangotang · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:01 am

K.I.S.S. flat fuel containers and a ratchet strap. I drove White Rim and Elephant Hill a while back with two 5L cans in my spare tire.

JL did the same thing with bungees...

Zack A · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:22 am

I'll have to agree....either mount it on the roof somehow with a rack or to the tire as stated above. I could see it turning bad if you were t-boned, hit hard enough from the rear and rolled. Your normal gas tank is made to somewhat with stand the impact but a "jerry can" might not hold up as well during an accident. At least if its mounted outside you don't get covered in gas.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:49 pm

That was extra water I carried on the spare... I was worried that it might spill and ruin my mad custom leather interiorz.... I wouldn't carry gasoline anywhere on my vehicle, that stuff is smelly and explosive.

Draco · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:43 pm

Maybe I'll focus on getting jerry cans on the roof rather than the rear bumper.

Durangotang, I'm surprised you're putting gas inside your spare when you have that awesome aluminum rack from Boiler. I guess you've got other stuff going on up there. I'd be willing to load something like that up more. I like my current Surco rack a lot, but one (or more, I forget) of the screws that hold the feet to the rack vibrated loose on a washboard road when I was carrying a spare and a 60" Hi-Lift. It scratched the paint badly enough that I had to have it fixed by a body shop.

I'm reluctant to put a gas can on the spare tire mount, unless there's only the gas on a carrier and no spare. I'd want to know the load rating of the swing gate. If it's designed to hold 200 lb, great.

I agree that gasoline is nasty stuff and dangerous, but I wouldn't call the liquid "explosive". The vapors yes, but not the liquid. Molotov cocktails are incendiary bombs, not explosive.

Draco · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:44 am

For reference, the '03 Owner's Manual says on page 233 that not more than 50 lbs should be added to the spare tire. With the off-road wheels and tires I'm pretty much already there.

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:43 am

Well if you like boilers roof rack talk to him about his rear bumpers. Also why not look at the Roto Pax kits you could easily make it mount to your current rack. I am currently in the process of drawing up a bumper design to carry the Roto Pax kit and a spare tire. But until my design is done and a shop to build it has been found i will be ordering a boiler/rock lizard rack asap after christmas plus a Roto Pax kit.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:12 pm

Draco wrote:

I agree that gasoline is nasty stuff and dangerous, but I wouldn't call the liquid "explosive". The vapors yes, but not the liquid. Molotov cocktails are incendiary bombs, not explosive.

I always thought that the whole "internal combustion engine" thing was marketing BS... I said it was more like an internal incendiary engine.... :lol:

There's no gas anywhere near Durangotang's rig either.

Draco · **Posted:** Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:57 am

Quote:

I always thought that the whole "internal combustion engine" thing was marketing BS... I said it was more like an internal incendiary engine.... :lol:

Exactly.

Here is a Jeep Proprietary schematic of the PowerTech 3.7L engine.

The incendiary gasoline is used to heat water, making steam. The steam drives the six pistons, providing the motive power.

Regarding the gas thing, you've shamed me into dealing with it sooner rather than later. :oops:

The plan is to buy one of Boiler's aluminum racks and for him to weld some plates to it for attaching a universal jerry can carrier.

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:27 pm

You could go flat can.... up to recently these were uncertified due to leaking but they have been improved.

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/spor ... /cat101272

Lots or tie down points and perfect for the roof rack.
They come in gasser red and white for water.....

I had checked for yellow or better D2 green but no luck and I would probly have one by now.

Remember 4 gallons is 120 highway miles D2 wise.

Roland

audiboy86 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:19 pm

DO NOT GO WITH THE KOLPINS mine leaked like no tomorrow as soon as they got alittle warm. :banghead:

The Roto Pax are heavier built and come in a wide range of colors. You can them at Boulder Bars http://www.boulderbars.com/rotopax.htm or find them on Ebay or thier offical website http://www.rotopax.com/.

Kingmick217 · **Joined:** Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:35 pm **Posts:** 27

Alright I've got an obvious guy solution for you... How about using those fancy plastic tanks you got and leave them with a half gallon of room at the top. Then sqeeze some of the air out and wrap the top up with some duct tape.

Yeah I know carrying gas inside the vehicle is wrong, but for the rare occasion that you have to do it, what the hell. Personally I put'em on my reciever rack, $50 at Wally World. That's just a redneck's :2cents:

Draco · **Posted:** Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:57 pm

Roland, thanks for the suggestion about the flat containers, rotopax etc. Those are pretty cool, but even in the short run they have such a funky shape the storage options are kind of limited. I'm still defaulting to putting a couple NATO size Wedco containers on the roof. Though they are in the way given low branches.

Kingmick217, I think you have the right idea to my original question. The only bad thing about using duct tape as a sealer is that the adhesive is soluble by gasoline, so the seeping gasoline is going to make it gummy and come loose.

I think the right way to go is a self-vulcanizing tape, but that's kind of pricey. I was out a week ago with 5 gal in the back. The only reason I didn't put on self-vulcanizing tape was I hated the idea of putting $4 of tape on! Maybe a way to go is to wrap the joint with a little kitchen type plastic wrap, and then wrap that with duct tape tightly. Then there's no contact of the adhesive with the seeping gasoline, so it won't get gummy. The tension of the tightly wound tape would form the seal, just like with a self vulcanizing tape.

Necessary evil: Fuel storage in passenger cabin

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