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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:11 pm 
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bushtit wrote:
I can give you my 2 cents on the lift pump install, as I had this pump installed as well on my CRD. After installation my mechanic had the same issues, so much so that after running out of other diagnostic potential problems I contacted Sasquatch asking whether the pump might have arrived faulty or something. Seth was willing to stand behind both the pump and the harness and in fact that turned out not to be an issue as well, neither was the priming scenario I was trying to suggest to my guy. The truck spent couple of days in the shop, with my frustration growing day by day, but I have to give a credit to my mechanic as he was doing his own research a persistently was trying to figure our where the problem was. He did so. It was some sort of relay in engine compartment that was the cause. Cant name that relay now but if you wish, and no one else can chime in in a mean time I can ask tomorrow and let you know. Something to do with the relay having to be reset after the pump change.


the name of this relay would be greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:33 am 
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Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
P2294 FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR 2 CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN.

this code will pop up if you have an open circuit (disconnected or wiring problem related to the FQS on the back of the CP3.) The wire is a twisted pair all the way to the plug at the rear of the ECM.
Could Be:
-wiring problem
-connector problem
-bad solenoid.

If it disappeared when cleared and has not come back, it's almost certainly not a bad solenoid, could be an intermittent problem with one of the other two, or could be someone disconnected the FQS when running sometime in the past.

In bypassing the fuel filter head, you have lost the ability to bleed off trapped air. You should only have to do this 1 or 2 times at the most, but until you get it started it cannot purge the air by it's self. Once running the CP3 can finish the job.
Start there.
Have a charger or running jump on your battery.
Once you have clear fuel with no bubbles coming out,
Check that your fuel pressure sensor plug is fully locked in place (driver's side of engine where the air inlet for the intake manifold is) 3-wire plug.
Check that your fuel pressure relief valve at the rear of the rail wire is fully locked in place. (if your wiring loom hasn't been changed it will be a 2 wire plug that comes from the main loom along with a 4 wire plug that goes to the Cam Position Sensor at the rear of the exhaust cam.
Check that your Glow Plug Loom is connected, and all are plugged in.
Use the Snap-On tool in the proper mode (data only, no codes)
Set to fuel/turbo category, and scroll to where it shows Fuel Pressure Set Point and Actual Fuel Pressure. (they should be close together)
Use your foot or a block to have 2-6% accelerator applied. (as little as possible but Not dead idle)
Key on until all dash lights go off exc CEL
Crank until it fires OR about 10 seconds whichever happens first. If it doesn't start in 10 seconds, let it rest for at least 20, then key off, back on, and try again.
Have someone watching the fuel pressure. It should be around 3-4000 psi after cranking that long. It should also be very close to the set point.

To answer your Q.. IF a pressure regulator goes bad, and does NOT throw a code, you either have major wiring problems or a bad ECM. The good news is while possible, it's extremely unlikely.
One bit of good news is I find more and more fuel system parts on these that are shared with Dodge and Chev CRDs, both of which have lower prices than the Jeep.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:00 am 
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
P2294 FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR 2 CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN.

this code will pop up if you have an open circuit (disconnected or wiring problem related to the FQS on the back of the CP3.) The wire is a twisted pair all the way to the plug at the rear of the ECM.
Could Be:
-wiring problem
-connector problem
-bad solenoid.

If it disappeared when cleared and has not come back, it's almost certainly not a bad solenoid, could be an intermittent problem with one of the other two, or could be someone disconnected the FQS when running sometime in the past.

In bypassing the fuel filter head, you have lost the ability to bleed off trapped air. You should only have to do this 1 or 2 times at the most, but until you get it started it cannot purge the air by it's self. Once running the CP3 can finish the job.
Start there.
Have a charger or running jump on your battery.
Once you have clear fuel with no bubbles coming out,
Check that your fuel pressure sensor plug is fully locked in place (driver's side of engine where the air inlet for the intake manifold is) 3-wire plug.
Check that your fuel pressure relief valve at the rear of the rail wire is fully locked in place. (if your wiring loom hasn't been changed it will be a 2 wire plug that comes from the main loom along with a 4 wire plug that goes to the Cam Position Sensor at the rear of the exhaust cam.
Check that your Glow Plug Loom is connected, and all are plugged in.
Use the Snap-On tool in the proper mode (data only, no codes)
Set to fuel/turbo category, and scroll to where it shows Fuel Pressure Set Point and Actual Fuel Pressure. (they should be close together)
Use your foot or a block to have 2-6% accelerator applied. (as little as possible but Not dead idle)
Key on until all dash lights go off exc CEL
Crank until it fires OR about 10 seconds whichever happens first. If it doesn't start in 10 seconds, let it rest for at least 20, then key off, back on, and try again.
Have someone watching the fuel pressure. It should be around 3-4000 psi after cranking that long. It should also be very close to the set point.

To answer your Q.. IF a pressure regulator goes bad, and does NOT throw a code, you either have major wiring problems or a bad ECM. The good news is while possible, it's extremely unlikely.
One bit of good news is I find more and more fuel system parts on these that are shared with Dodge and Chev CRDs, both of which have lower prices than the Jeep.


Thanks for all the info. I bypassed the fuel head in hopes of getting it to start and ruling out an issue there. Before I put the lift pump on it would lose prime after 5 seconds of cranking. After putting the lift pump on it would be primed and as soon as you turned the key off if you pumped it manually it would lose prime after 3 pumps. (by prime I am referring to resistance when you pump the fuel head). It still will not start. It has less than 1000 miles on the new head, water pump, timing belt and glow plugs. I have all the paper work for the work that was done on it. It drove great during the test drive and died on the way home after buying it. It still has not thrown a code I can read. My friends SNAP ON picked up the 2294 when there was no CEL. I smoke tested the fuel system and there were no leaks. When it died on me going home it did not sputter. It died like someone just turned it off. That is what it did 4 times before it would no longer start. Due to work schedules it is going to be 3 weeks now before I can get to it again. I will check connectors and tell my friend what you said to check with his scanner. He is a diesel mech but has never worked on one of these.


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:19 pm
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GordnadoCRD wrote:
P2294 FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR 2 CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN.

this code will pop up if you have an open circuit (disconnected or wiring problem related to the FQS on the back of the CP3.) The wire is a twisted pair all the way to the plug at the rear of the ECM.
Could Be:
-wiring problem
-connector problem
-bad solenoid.

If it disappeared when cleared and has not come back, it's almost certainly not a bad solenoid, could be an intermittent problem with one of the other two, or could be someone disconnected the FQS when running sometime in the past.

In bypassing the fuel filter head, you have lost the ability to bleed off trapped air. You should only have to do this 1 or 2 times at the most, but until you get it started it cannot purge the air by it's self. Once running the CP3 can finish the job.
Start there.
Have a charger or running jump on your battery.
Once you have clear fuel with no bubbles coming out,
Check that your fuel pressure sensor plug is fully locked in place (driver's side of engine where the air inlet for the intake manifold is) 3-wire plug.
Check that your fuel pressure relief valve at the rear of the rail wire is fully locked in place. (if your wiring loom hasn't been changed it will be a 2 wire plug that comes from the main loom along with a 4 wire plug that goes to the Cam Position Sensor at the rear of the exhaust cam.
Check that your Glow Plug Loom is connected, and all are plugged in.
Use the Snap-On tool in the proper mode (data only, no codes)
Set to fuel/turbo category, and scroll to where it shows Fuel Pressure Set Point and Actual Fuel Pressure. (they should be close together)
Use your foot or a block to have 2-6% accelerator applied. (as little as possible but Not dead idle)
Key on until all dash lights go off exc CEL
Crank until it fires OR about 10 seconds whichever happens first. If it doesn't start in 10 seconds, let it rest for at least 20, then key off, back on, and try again.
Have someone watching the fuel pressure. It should be around 3-4000 psi after cranking that long. It should also be very close to the set point.

To answer your Q.. IF a pressure regulator goes bad, and does NOT throw a code, you either have major wiring problems or a bad ECM. The good news is while possible, it's extremely unlikely.
One bit of good news is I find more and more fuel system parts on these that are shared with Dodge and Chev CRDs, both of which have lower prices than the Jeep.


Still not running. The wife is on me to get rid of it. I am just plain pissed and determined to get it running. Is the FQS and the MPROP the same thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:24 pm 
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Yes. The FQS and MPROP are the same part.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:26 pm 
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If you havent yet, look here
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=5
A few others having similar problem

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 am 
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flash7210 wrote:
If you havent yet, look here
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=5
A few others having similar problem


Thanks, read through a lot of pages last night. This gives me somewhere to look at today. To save time, where is the FQS so I can unplug it?


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:41 am 
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The fuel quantity solenoid is on the CP3 injection pump, below the alternator.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:48 am 
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Image

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:04 pm 
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bushtit wrote:
flash7210 wrote:
The fuel quantity solenoid is on the CP3 injection pump, below the alternator.



What exactly is removing said solenoid do for you?




PS. OP, please check your PM box.

You only remove the solenoid when it needs to be replaced.

Unplugging the solenoid wire connector is a method for diagnosing fuel rail pressure problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:10 pm 
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RCS wrote:
I am so over the excitement of owning a diesel jeep. I have 2 other diesel vehicles right now and never as much issues as this. I decided to bypass the fuel head and put an inline clear filter on. Turned the key and the lift pump did its thing. It filled the filter about 2/3. Held the filter with the out flow going down and had the neighbor turn the key. IT DID NOT START. it did not fill up the rest of the filter. You can see fuel coming in but the level does not change. I scanned for codes and as usual there were NO :furious: codes. The profanity I have used on this vehicle is more than 15 years with my Cummins. My mech friend scanned it with his SNAP ON and got a P2294 code once. He cleared it and it did not come back put it still did not start. My basic code reader has always found nothing. Can a pressure regulator go bad and not throw a code? Due to work schedule it will be 3 weeks before I can deal with this again.


If you are still getting the P2294 code, that indicates a open circuit to the pressure control solenoid on the ruel rail. Its either the wiring or the solenoid itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Let's do a quick recap. I bought a 2005 CRD. The motor had been rebuilt with a new head, timing belt, water pump and glow plugs. It had 5 new tires and a new battery. It drove good on the test drive and half the way home when it just died, no sputter just died. After sitting for about 10 minutes it started up and died again 7 miles later. After 10 minutes it started up and I got it home where it died again. The next day it started up and I let it idle for about 20-30 minutes when I jumped in to drive around the neighborhood and it died about 100 yards from the house. Pushed it home and that was it.

To date I have changed the crank position sensory, fuel filter and added an in tank lift pump. It turns over no problem. I smoked the fuel system and found no leaks. It just does not want to start. It does not act like it wants to start. It does not hard start. It just does not start.

Now we are at today. I unplugged the FQS and it did not start. It turned over like normal and did not start. So, I was just sitting there, minding my own business and turning it over for 5 second tries when all of a sudden, out of the blue it started right up about 3 seconds into a try. I freaked and gave it a little gas (diesel) and it died. It ran for 2-3 seconds. In the past it was not throwing a code. I scanned it after the start and it had the following codes. I do not know if the are related to trying to start it with the FQS unplugged or if they are new related to it running for 3 seconds than dying.

P0090 Fuel Pressure Regulator 1 control circuit confirmed
p0093 fuel system leak detected- large confirmed
P2294 Fuel Pressure Regulator 2 control circuit confirmed
P0093 Fuel system leak detected - large Pending
P2294 Fuiel Pressure Regulator 2 control circuit pending

I have tried again and it has not started. Where do I disconnect the fuel return line on this. In reading it seems a lot of people break these.


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:55 pm 
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RCS wrote:
I have tried again and it has not started. Where do I disconnect the fuel return line on this. In reading it seems a lot of people break these.

In this picture, the blue hose is the return off of the Fuel Pressure Solenoid off the end of the rail!
The small black cloth covered hose is the return from the injectors!
The big black hose on the bottom of the plastic four way fitting is the one with the arrow pointing to it is the return from the Fuel Quality Regulator on the back of the CP3 injection pump!

Keep in mind, that four way plastic junction block is somewhat fragile and some have broken them!!! :roll:

Image

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Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:51 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
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There are 3 return lines.
One from the injection pump.
One from the fuel rail.
And small one from the injectors.
They all converge at a junction before going back to the tank.

The one you should be concerned with now is the fuel rail return, which is near the back of the rail.
Disconnect the return hose from the rail and plug it.
Then, crank the engine while watching the return port on the rail.
No fuel should be comming out the return port.

P2294 indicates a problem with the fuel rail pressure control solenoid.
If this solenoid at the back of the fuel rail is unplugged or faulty, pressure will not build in the rail and the engine will not start.

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:18 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
RCS wrote:
I have tried again and it has not started. Where do I disconnect the fuel return line on this. In reading it seems a lot of people break these.

In this picture, the blue hose is the return off of the Fuel Pressure Solenoid off the end of the rail!
The small black cloth covered hose is the return from the injectors!
The big black hose on the bottom of the plastic four way fitting is the one with the arrow pointing to it is the return from the Fuel Quality Regulator on the back of the CP3 injection pump!

Keep in mind, that four way plastic junction block is somewhat fragile and some have broken them!!! :roll:

Image


So I disconnect the blue line


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:49 pm 
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RCS wrote:
So I disconnect the blue line
Yep, the blue fuel line near the upper-right corner of that picture. Runs from the fuel rail to the black plastic junction block. You'll probably want to remove it from where it connects to the fuel rail as the junction block is known to be kind of fragile.


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:58 pm 
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I went out to look at the hoses. I decided to grab the connector on the fuel pressure regulator and shake it and tapped on the regulator. It started up and ran for a couple seconds. It would not start so I did it again and it started again and ran for a couple seconds. Would not start so, I did it again and it ran and did not die. I see pattern, there is an issue with the regulator or connector of both. I think I will replace them both to make me feel better. BUT IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!

p0090 fuel pressure regulator 1 control circuit confirmed
P0093 fuel system leak detected - large leak confirmed
P2294 fuel pressure regulator 2 control circuit confirmed


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:07 pm 
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This is the connector for the solenoid
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01HBXZ3NM/ref=pd_aw_vtph_263_lp_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=D6GB85R1XJ4ZCZQZF6SN

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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:28 pm 
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I took it for a drive around the neighborhood. It died on me a couple times. got out and jiggle the connector and tapped the solenoid with a wrench and it started right up. I am going to order the connector and replace the solenoid.

Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I would never have figured it out on my own. It does have a new crank sensory and in tank lift pump. Hopefully in a month I will be able to order a GDE eco tuner. Next will be a snorkel, and bumper with a winch and a lift and tires and ................


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 Post subject: Re: Bought a 2005 CRD and died on the way home.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:35 pm 
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Does anyone happen to have a part number for this solenoid? When I do a search it keeps bringing up the FQS and the only one I think I have found say they are 389.00


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