LBJs yet again!

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:01 am

Ok, so I take it in for the oil/filter (I know, but it's free!) and get that call from the dlr while I'm having breakfast: "Well, you need an air filter (duh) and your LBJs are shot." 54K miles. :shock:

"Since it's a safety issue, you really need them replaced while it's here. But we're covering them under warranty even though the recall was done 2 years ago." (Like they wouldn't have had a fight/lawsuit if they didn't!) Gee, and I thought that shuddering when I braked was due to a warped rotor! :roll:

So, I go back to the dlr and what's sittin inside the shop but another KJ with what looks like a blown tire peeled off the rim. Except the wheel is sittin at a funny angle. And there's a jackstand underneath the suspension on that side. :shock:

Hmmm.....
Wonder what happened to him? :roll:

( I really felt like leaving a LOST card on his window but figured he wouldn't get it.) :wink:

Gonna go over to the NHTSA link and file a complaint now. Again, Why hasn't someone started a class action suit over this? :?:

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:28 am

Cacher123 wrote:

Ok, so I take it in for the oil/filter (I know, but it's free!) and get that call from the dlr while I'm having breakfast: "Well, you need an air filter (duh) and your LBJs are shot." 54K miles. :shock:

"Since it's a safety issue, you really need them replaced while it's here. But we're covering them under warranty even though the recall was done 2 years ago." (Like they wouldn't have had a fight/lawsuit if they didn't!) Gee, and I thought that shuddering when I braked was due to a warped rotor! :roll:

So, I go back to the dlr and what's sittin inside the shop but another KJ with what looks like a blown tire peeled off the rim. Except the wheel is sittin at a funny angle. And there's a jackstand underneath the suspension on that side. :shock:

Hmmm.....
Wonder what happened to him? :roll:

( I really felt like leaving a L.O.S.T. card on his window but figured he wouldn't get it.) :wink:

Gonna go over to the NHTSA link and file a complaint now. Again, Why hasn't someone started a class action suit over this? :?:

REally is rediculous eh? It will probably take someone or someones getting killed before they will be forced to Really fix the problem. Ask them if they would just install the Moogs instead of more junk factory BJ's.
Or I suppose they could just add LBJ replacement to teh service schedule?

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:50 am

Quote:

Report Date : June 22, 2006 at 10:51 AM
SEARCH TYPE : VEHICLE
YEAR : 2005
Make : JEEP
Model : LIBERTY
Type : MULTIPURPOSE PASSENGER VEHICLE

NHTSA Action Number: NHTSA Recall Campaign Number:
EA06008 N/A
Make: JEEP Model: LIBERTY
Manufacturer : DAIMLERCHRYSLER CORPORATION
Year : 2005
Component :
SUSPENSION:FRONT:CONTROL ARM:LOWER BALL JOINT

Date Investigation Opened : May 31, 2006
Date Investigation Closed : Open
Summary:
ON JANUARY 6, 2006, THE OFFICE OF DEFECTS INVESTIGATION (ODI) OPENED A PRELIMINARY EVALUATION TO INVESTIGATE ALLEGED FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION WHILE DRIVING IN CERTAIN MODEL YEAR (MY) 2004 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. ODI SENT A LETTER TO THE MANUFACTURER ON FEBRUARY 7, 2006, REQUESTING INFORMATION ABOUT THESE AND OTHER JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. BASED ON THE INFORMATION REVIEWED IN PE06-004, THE RANGE OF SUBJECT VEHICLES UNDER INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN EXPANDED TO INCLUDE ALL MY 2002-06 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES THAT USE THE SAME OR SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT. ODI IS AWARE OF 495 NON-DUPLICATIVE COMPLAINTS THAT ALLEGE INVOLUNTARY FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES. ODI IS ALSO AWARE OF ONE NON-INJURY CRASH AND THREE ALLEGED INJURY INCIDENTS (TWO CRASH INCIDENTS AND ONE NON-CRASH INCIDENT) RELATED TO THE ALLEGED DEFECT RESULTING IN MINOR INJURIES. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THE COMPLAINT COUNTS REPORTED ABOVE ONLY INCLUDE MY 2002-03 LIBERTY VEHICLES IF IT WAS DETERMINED THE ALLEGED BALL JOINT SEPARATION OCCURRED AFTER PRIOR RECALL REPAIRS WERE PERFORMED (SEE BELOW) OR IF THE VEHICLE WAS NOT SUBJECT TO THE PRIOR RECALL BECAUSE ITS VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (VIN) FELL OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF AFFECTED VEHICLES IDENTIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER. THE MANUFACTURER CONDUCTED A PRIOR SAFETY RECALL (03V-460) TO ADDRESS THE SUBJECT ISSUE IN CERTAIN MY 2002-03 JEEP LIBERTY VEHICLES. ACCORDING TO DAIMLERCHRYSLER’S DEFECT INFORMATION REPORT TO THE AGENCY (IN ACCORDANCE WITH 49 CFR PART 573) DATED NOVEMBER 4, 2003, “THE CONSTANT TENSION LOWER CONTROL ARM BALL JOINTS MAY EXPERIENCE A LOSS OF LUBRICATION WHICH CAN LEAD TO CORROSION, ACCELERATED WEAR AND POSSIBLY SEPARATION FROM THE STEERING KNUCKLE. A CONSTANT TENSION BALL JOINT WHICH HAS SEPARATED FROM THE KNUCKLE MAY RESULT IN LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL WITH MINIMAL ADVANCED WARNING.” THE MANUFACTURER HAS MADE NUMEROUS CHANGES IN THE DESIGN, MATERIAL COMPOSITION, MANUFACTURE, QUALITY CONTROL, SUPPLY, AND INSTALLATION OF THE SUBJECT BALL JOINTS SINCE THE PRIOR SAFETY RECALL WAS INITIATED IN AN EFFORT TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE WITH RESPECT TO SEALING, LUBRICATION, AND JOINT RETENTION CAPABILITY. THE MANUFACTURER'S INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES IS ONGOING. ACCORDINGLY, THIS INVESTIGATION HAS BEEN UPGRADED TO AN ENGINEERING ANALYSIS TO FURTHER STUDY THE FREQUENCY AND SCOPE OF THE ALLEGED DEFECT AND THE ADEQUACY OF THE REMEDY PROVIDED BY THE PRIOR SAFETY RECALL.

Uh, huh.

I haven't seen this posted before. I suggest that anyone who has trouble with a dlr replacing these under warranty take a copy of the complaint with them to the dlr for reference. Maybe we should sticky it someplace.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:21 am

"THE MANUFACTURER HAS MADE NUMEROUS CHANGES IN THE DESIGN, MATERIAL COMPOSITION, MANUFACTURE, QUALITY CONTROL, SUPPLY, AND INSTALLATION OF THE SUBJECT BALL JOINTS SINCE THE PRIOR SAFETY RECALL WAS INITIATED IN AN EFFORT TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE WITH RESPECT TO SEALING, LUBRICATION, AND JOINT RETENTION CAPABILITY. THE MANUFACTURER'S INVESTIGATION INTO ALLEGED FRONT SUSPENSION LOWER BALL JOINT SEPARATION IN THE SUBJECT VEHICLES IS ONGOING"

I would love to see proof of this. I'm not buying it. :roll:

Se7enLC · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:13 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

I would love to see proof of this. I'm not buying it. :roll:

Yeah, the only change I know about is the heat shield, which isn't even a change to the ball joint itself (design, material, manufacture, qc, supply or installation) and it doesn't do anything to help (sealing, lubrication, or joint retention).

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:59 pm

Just got back from the dlr. Brought them a copy of the NHTSA investigation report I referenced above. They say they weren't aware of any investigation :roll:

and wanted to keep the report to look at. I gave it to them.

Then they told me something interesting: "Since there was a recall on the LBJs, they'll be replaced for life." :!:

I said: "Are you sure about that?" They said "Yes, anytime there is a recall, that part is covered for life." :shock:

Hmmm...... Interesting.

Also, they told me that almost all the time that the LBJs fail, they fail at low speed, usually during a full lock turn like when parking when the LBJ is under greatest stress. Then they told me to check out the red one outside. That's what happened to that one. I'm thinking to myself "Is it really a good idea for the dlr to be pointing out vehicles that had failures to the customers?" :roll:

Oh well.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:53 pm

Cacher123 wrote:

Just got back from the dlr. Brought them a copy of the NHTSA investigation report I referenced above. They say they weren't aware of any investigation :roll:

and wanted to keep the report to look at. I gave it to them.

Then they told me something interesting: "Since there was a recall on the LBJs, they'll be replaced for life." :!:

I said: "Are you sure about that?" They said "Yes, anytime there is a recall, that part is covered for life." :shock:

Hmmm...... Interesting.

Also, they told me that almost all the time that the LBJs fail, they fail at low speed, usually during a full lock turn like when parking when the LBJ is under greatest stress. Then they told me to check out the red one outside. That's what happened to that one. I'm thinking to myself "Is it really a good idea for the dlr to be pointing out vehicles that had failures to the customers?" :roll:

Oh well.

Wow, thats really cool they replace them for life! One awsome dealer you have there.

CaKJFreedom · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:56 pm

They should talk to my dealer and the customer service rep at the 800 number who both told me there was nothing they could do. :evil:

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:18 pm

Quote:

They should talk to my dealer and the customer service rep at the 800 number who both told me there was nothing they could do.

Have you spoken to them since May 06 when that report was posted? It clearly shows an ongoing problem.

winkelhawk · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:14 am

Mine failed pulling out of a parking spot and few months back. I had the recall done and he is right about the lifetime warranty. I am still going to replace tham with MOOG next month. Don't trust them!

http://smbtechnet.com/0327061559.jpg

priell3 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:39 am

This past Winter I saw a woman sitting in her KJ, in her DRIVEWAY, suspension on the ground. Left lower ball joint failure.

SD-KJ · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:30 am

Cacher123 wrote:

Then they told me something interesting: "Since there was a recall on the LBJs, they'll be replaced for life." :!:

I said: "Are you sure about that?" They said "Yes, anytime there is a recall, that part is covered for life." :shock:

Hmmm...... Interesting.

I was also told this same thing.

-Nick

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:47 am

If u guys don't mind (or haven't yet) please go hit my poll:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=93550#93550

Might help us out later.

I'm gonna see if my dlr will cover the labor under warranty if I provide him the Moogs.

Wahoo650 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:52 pm

My left LBJ failed last night while the wife was driving, staright ahead at time, but on a rough black top street. I had it towed to dealer that night, won't find out who's paying what until tomorrow (Monday) morning when they open for business. The dealer always been pretty good, and from what I'm reading here I hope it goes well. I'm lucky, no one was hurt and the wheel stayed in place, it sat down in the wheel and chewed the inside of the rim up - it's toast. Also chewed up the plastic liner pretty good. To top it all off, Saturday morning I was at the dealer pickiing up a new resistor board for the *&^%$#*! HVAC fan speed control, which works about as well as the "dims the lights or turns them on when it wants to" lighting control stalk.

The saddest part is Chryslers apparent willingness to risk their customers lives. If all it takes is one or two fires or "unintentional acceleration" complaints to start up the ambulance chasing media machine, then i would think we could get some pretty good PR help with this if needed.

Anyway, I appreciate all the info. here and will post my results.

I just wish I didn't like the Libby so darn much!

Matt

Cacher123 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:58 pm

Brings up an interesting idea. :idea:

Anyone know anybody in the media? Maybe some bad PR will get DC moving on this. After all, I just heard an ad touting the Lib as the "#1 selling entry level SUV". You know, call some local/national news media with: "Hey, wanna story about a potential death/injury hazard on Jeep's #1 selling entry level SUV that they've known about for 5 years and don't wanna do anything about?" "Even the NHTSA is investigating." "I heard people were injured, maybe even killed!" :twisted:

See what interest that gets! :shock:

jpzkj · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:24 pm

I like my KJ but I sure won't buy another one unless they change the control arm design.

I replaced the lower ball joints on my own nickle with the Moog's. I feel much better with them up there.

The way the ball joint mounts is the problem as much as the ball joint itself. DC knows that.....they just need to step up and fix a bad design.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:37 pm

I don't know you makes the lbj's for DXC but when I ordered my MOOG's one came in wrong,the right box and part # but low and behold it looked identical to the factory lbj's.No grease zerk,clearish dust boot,and that crappy gray grease.I took it out to my KJ and held it next to the factory ones and could not tell the difference exept the one I was holding was stamped MOOG on it.Does any one know who makes the factory lbj's?

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:55 am

The factory design obviously puts a lot of stress on the poor stock POS LBJs, but do the MOOGs have a failure to their name yet as well? Is the design flaw fixed by a more sturdy LBJ that is serviceable, or is the design so poor that it will still fail with this stronger joint?

waddy whiteguts · **Posted:** Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:20 pm

According to my mechanic Moog Chassis Parts makes pretty much all of the OEM ball joints found in American autos. Chances are the OEM LBJs in the KJ are Moog too, they just don't stamp it on the part.

jpzkj · **Posted:** Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:53 pm

The Moog's that I installed were much heavier than the stockers and were greasable as well.

LBJs yet again!

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