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Laws Regarding 'Off-Road' lights
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=41876		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Laws Regarding 'Off-Road' lights
I have been searching around on here for laws/regulations for how/where/number/output of lights any motor vehicle can have in ohio, and i hadn't found many specifics.

So, I decided to spend a few hours pouring over the Ohio Revised Code (isn't insomnia great :lol: :roll:) and i had some interesting findings.

There is no restriction on output for headlights OR auxiliary lights (didn't think so)

You can have up to but not more than five lights OTHER than your headlights running at any one time if each exceeds 300 candlepower (thats a lot of light if we're talking lightforce 240XGTs :twisted:) as long as they are aimed not to cause glare to oncoming vehicles.

There are NO restrictions detailed pertaining to where/how high they can be mounted. The Revised Code actually states that you can operate lights mounted on the cowl! 8)

Same goes for backup lights, provided they are not operating when the vehicle is moving in a forward direction, obviously.

If anyone wants any specific details or has any questions, feel free to PM me. I searched for literally hours trying to find loopholes/traps in these laws that LE officers could get anyone with if they pulled someone over for anything detailed above, and i didn't find any. There weren't even any provisions to allow local governance of auxiliary lighting.

My father is an attourney, and he taught me to cover my behind whenever i do anything questionably legal, and this is probably the most airtight safe zone i've ever found. I'll run this stuff by him later on today. I will update if he finds anything sketchy, but so far, so good

Oops, didnt mean to write so much...:oops:
sorry for the longwinded post

Have fun turning night into day. :D

Andy
Author:  KJWildman [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info, I've been wondering the same thing about the lights but I don't have insomnia :lol: I have had 2-3 people tell me that I neeed to run covers on them but I haven't got mine wired yet so I didn't worry about it yet. ( my rack is coming back off for powder coating) Now I don't have to worry in the back of my mind when I see that cop behind me! :lol:
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:44 am ]
Post subject: 
It's always good to have double insurance, i usually cruise with a folder filled with legal documents to prove the legality of EVERYTHING I'm doing, but that's just me :roll:.

my buddy and i got detained at a mall because he was open carrying his handgun, and the security guard freaked out, and thought we were breaking the law, the cops showed up and everything, but we weren't in violation of any laws. long story short, two hours and EIGHT very, very confused police officers later, we found out that no one that responded had any idea that OPEN carry is perfectly legal in Ohio. Luckily we had the documents to prove it.

heres a link if anyone is skeptical :lol:
The read is absolutely riveting! :roll:
haha

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc
Author:  InCommando [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Up until 2004 you could have no more than 6 forward-facing CLEAR lights at any time, and no more than 4 forward-facing clear lights could be illuminated at any one time. Upon signal from any oncoming traffic, only two forward-facing clear lights could be illimunated. This new law is kind of silly. 5 lights are needed because????? 2 headlights, 2 driving lights (for people who are apparently so blind they probably shouldn't be driving anyway 8) ) and this fifth light is the?????

IIRC, 300 candlepower is actually a fairly low output? Or am I misremebering?

VooDoo, you are fortunate. If you look up the Disorderly Conduct Statute, you will find that it says to cause annoyance, inconvenience, or alarm to another. The open display of a firearm on private property (not your own) even if it is public access has been succesfully prosecuted as Disorderly Conduct if it met the burden of the statute. Your rights are absolute only up until the point that they infringe on the rights of another. In this case it was the guard's right to be free from inconveniencce, annoyance, or alarm on property for which he was the representative.

Another example was open carry in a motor vehicle. John Wayne Jr wants to carry in plain sight walking down the sidewalk. What happens when he gets in a car or bus, etc.? The new CCW law in Ohio ( still a bit of a mess, in my opinion) was very unclear on motor vehicle transport even for permit holders in its original version.
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
The law for the lights is five plus headlights, total of 7. if the lights (headlights excluded) are over 300 candle power, if they are under 300 candle power you can hypothetically have as many as you want, i.e christmas lights.

and open carry in Ohio is protected, disorderly conduct only comes in to play if you are threatening/brandishing a weapon, if anyone restricts any person lawfully carrying, they are infringing on their rights, and if you get into a motor vehicle you must unload your magazines unless you have a CCW license. Trust me. :wink:
Author:  tommudd [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:26 am ]
Post subject: 
all depends on where you are with that many lights and how deep your pockets are to fight it.
Trust me been there fought it and they just came up with a different charge so was still fined.
Not worth it and also why would you want to run 7 lights, half of these idiots running extra driving lights I would if given a chance stop them myself and bust the bulbs out!

Headlights and driving lights are all thats needed on any roads and I drive a lot of back country roads down in Southeastern Ohio.
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:43 am ]
Post subject: 
tommudd wrote:
all depends on where you are with that many lights and how deep your pockets are to fight it.
Trust me been there fought it and they just came up with a different charge so was still fined.
Not worth it and also why would you want to run 7 lights, half of these idiots running extra driving lights I would if given a chance stop them myself and bust the bulbs out!

Headlights and driving lights are all thats needed on any roads and I drive a lot of back country roads down in Southeastern Ohio.


Especially if you are running anything of decent quality. I only have those 2 'hidden lights' and they don't do much, i really need to more light up front.
Author:  Boiler [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Hailing from indiana, about a month ago I poured through our code and didn't find anything substantial telling me what I could do or couldn't do. So I emailed the name of the site (gov't run) and they forwarded me to the state police, who forwarded me from person to person until I stopped getting answered.

Its funny, each person thanked me graciously for being safety and lawfully minded, yet none would give me an answer...
Author:  InCommando [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
VoodooMann wrote:
The law for the lights is five plus headlights, total of 7. if the lights (headlights excluded) are over 300 candle power, if they are under 300 candle power you can hypothetically have as many as you want, i.e christmas lights.

and open carry in Ohio is protected, disorderly conduct only comes in to play if you are threatening/brandishing a weapon, if anyone restricts any person lawfully carrying, they are infringing on their rights, and if you get into a motor vehicle you must unload your magazines unless you have a CCW license. Trust me. :wink:


So, does the firearm & ammunition still have to be kept in seperately secured compartments if you do not have a CCW permit?

Many vehicles have 4 seperate headlights, not just two. How does that effect the count?

Initially, the ccw holder had to have the weapon in plain sight if the had it loaded in a motor vehicle. If you carryied the gun on your left side, and it was between the door and your body, was it in plain sight? These were some of the giant holes in the original crappy version of Ohio's CCW permit law.

Your carry rights do not supersede my property rights. I can certainly restrict your rights on my property, as you do not have to be on my property. This includes public access private property, such as a mall. Have you seen the little signs posted by doors, etc?

Threatening or brandishing the firearm is the more severe crime of menacing or, most likley beings as a firearm is involved, aggravated menacing. The threats elevate the crime above DC. Inconvenience, annoy, and alarm are all levels well below threatened. DC may be used as plea down from any number of crimes, but to think that threatening someone with a gun is a minor misdemeanor punishable by zero jail time and a maximum $100 fine versus a $1,000 fine & 6 months in jail for agg. menacing is a mistake that I don't think you want to make.
Author:  Guest [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:38 am ]
Post subject: 
ThunderbirdJunkie is inconvenienced by your being inconvenienced by his open carry Ruger P97 :shock:
Author:  InCommando [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
TBJ, don't get me wrong here: This is not personal. I am not saying I am against anything here, just reiterating that your rights stop when they infringe on the rights of another. If you are carrying concealed or in plain view, people can tell you not to come on their property for that reason. They can order you to leave for that reason. And they have that right. If a mall guard tells you to leave because you have an open firearm, you need to leave or you are trespassing.

I have not carried in years. I do not feel the need. If you do, fine. Have at it.
Author:  Guest [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:57 am ]
Post subject: 
ThunderbirdJunkie does not carry either, he is just adding his -$.02
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:02 am ]
Post subject: 
i carry a steel pipe, i'll tie a peace flag to the end if it makes people feel better, shouldn't hamper it's velocity too much :P
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  This Post answers many questions
The way the law is now, the firearm and all magazines must be unloaded before a firearm can legally be transported in a vehicle without CCW.

In regards to the lights, my father emailed me back, he thinks the headlights are included. but i never got pulled over when i used to run four driving lights and headlights on my explorer, so im not sure.

"Whenever a motor vehicle equipped with headlights also is equipped with any auxiliary lights or spotlight or any other light on the front thereof projecting a beam of an intensity greater than three hundred candle power, not more than a total of five of any such lights on the front of a vehicle shall be lighted at any one time when the vehicle is upon a highway."

But in a different section it says you can have headlights, one auxiliary passing lamp, two fog lights, and two auxiliary driving lights, thus making 5 excluding headlamps.

He also told me to check in other ohio lawbooks, and look what i found

auxiliary driving lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than sixteen inches nor more than forty-two inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands. :(

They moved the specifications out of the revised code? Why?

so much for being able to use my roof rack lights when i get them :cry:
But then again, i see people breaking these rules all the time around where i live, one of them close to my best friend. he's the reason i looked all this up last night. He runs Four long range beams on the roof, and two aux driving lights on the bumper, and when he feels extra saucy he also runs his 2 HID fog lamps mounted on the bumper. 8 total, and i was wondering how legal he was. apparently not very legal :lol:

I bet if i carried around copies of those revised code pages, no one would say anything. unless they knew the specifications were no longer included in the revised code.

and back to guns, Private owned nonpublic property can be controlled because you can restrict access to anyone you do not want there. Also, the buildings with the 'no person shall knowingly carry or posess' signs, those are an exception to CCW and open carry, but they have to be clearly posted outside the premises for all to see, such as the parking lots at colleges/municipal buildings, or at the front doors of a bar/private business.

As far as disorderly conduct, legally carrying with no ill intent, within all boundaries of the law? you cannot be charged with a crime where no crime is present.
If I infringe on someone else's rights by legally carrying a gun (my second amendment right, and also legal right under the Ohio constitution), them impeding my right to carry is infringing on My rights.
'Your rights are absolute only up until the point that they infringe on the rights of another.'

And i believe you misinterpreted (as i also mistyped) my prior statement on disorderly conduct, i in no way meant aiming a firearm at another person, THAT is a very serious crime, i meant acting out of line/in a threatening manner WHILE carrying a weapon. In order for disorderly conduct to have any real weight, something disorderly has to be happening.

I'm not trying to start a huge argument or anything, I also don't want to upset anyone, I cannot muster the words to properly explain what i am trying to say.

If i am carrying,
I am carrying because i feel uncomfortable in a given area,
I am alone in an unsafe area at night,
I have a legitimate reason.

I do not/will not carry unless I plan on being somewhere that fits these criteria.
If someone else feels threatened by me carrying, i am more than happy to return my self defense tool to my vehicle, the problem was that he was treated like a criminal, and almost got arrested, without breaking the law.

I must say, these conversations always go much easier face to face, talking over the internet about legal issues is so tedious.
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:53 am ]
Post subject: 
i think the point of all of it is:

it's annoying, and dangerous that those who are repsponsible for our safety or enforcement in so many cases no very little about what is legal, for that exact reason when NC's new CCW policies went out the state of NC advised that we carry a printed piece of paper in our glove box that stated NC's laws upon such matters due to so many of our officers being ignorant of the matter

but.. they're enforcement, not lawyers etc

just sucks to have to remind them of what the laws are when a good many of them seriously don't want to listen to you because of their God complex heheh
Author:  VoodooMann [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Exactly my point haha

:lol:
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:04 am ]
Post subject: 
i figured so, very easy to come across as trying to give advice especially in the form of text

it took me a lot of asking around before I got 100% comfortable leaving my offroad light covers off in NC because in some places, specifically Cali, it's not even a corrections ticket they (in many places in ca) apparently don't care if you were using them or not, uncovered = a ticket

i haven't thought anything about adding additional non-offroad lights to my jeep, might hide 2 in the grill but for offroad not on road

sure as hell don't need my roof lights when drivin at night, 2 headlights + 2 fogs are plenty, if i need more i flip them to highbeam and then I can see for days

one thing i DO wish my KJ had, was a floor switch for the low/high like some of my older vehicles had
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