Warning on a pay-to-wheel place

InCommando · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:49 pm

I post on a few forums, and lurk on others. One Ohio pay-to-wheel park has been getting very bad press on numerous forums. The owner's response has made matters worse, IMHO. I am not going to name the park here as I don't think this forum is the best place for it. I would just caution folks to do a web search or check out a place before you do business with them. One will jump out with many hits to give you food for thought before going there.

TAHOE · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:13 pm

If his responses get out on all the forums, he's going to be wheelin by himself.
$500 fee..... did I hit the right nail on the head?

1996xj · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:00 pm

I, do not see the LIGHT !! I am LOST !! Give me a hint !!! :idea:

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:11 pm

Scott
First how many Pay to Play are there in Ohio? Not many choices so......

1996xj · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:15 am

I, have never been to any offroad parks in ohio !! Beleave it or not !!!!! Only place I shouldn't of been like ranger trails, cornfield's,etc... :roll:

InCommando · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:34 am

There are only a handful of places, so I am sure that anyone who cares enough to research it, identify the park, and draw their own conclusions can do so.

But be it there or anywhere, targeting newbies so you can blast them with outrageous fees like recovery fees STARTING at $500 is not cool, IMHO. Saying that people who break their jeeps have it coming to them for the not properly maintaining their vehicle is also beyond absurd. Wheeling breaks stuff, even on big dollar professional rigs. That is just part of the game. I also have to think that any owner who has no background in 'wheeling but suddenly claims to be an expert and capable of schooling others is probably a legitimate safety issue. I wonder why an owner of a business would not start a motorsports park for an activity they were familiar with. It makes me suspicious that said owner knows that they would have no chance of success with those that know him best and needed to get to a group that was not familiar with him. Pure conjecture, true. But deliberately targeting people who are new to the sport and may not realize that BS is BS due to inexperience kind of leads to the same questions. Again, anyone who is interested can draw their own conclusions.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:20 am

I "assumed" that the place I was thinking about was the one you were discussing but Tahoe pointed me in the right direction to "several" pages of posts on two forums.
So my take and not standing up for anyone is "yes" they can charge 500 if they drag your rig out. But in all fairness the owner of of said place is the one who has the equipment and sits the price, not the one who is running the mmmm well "classes" and the off road park.
Not impressed with the communication skills of him but it is his party and if you don't want to go and have fun it's your choice.
If I were ever to open the land I have to 4 Wheeling I would sit some rules and regulations up as well, not only to protect myself but others as well.
Are they going about it right over there? Well maybe not quite the way I would but again he's the one with the key to the gate, so you have to play by his rules.
Another Off Road park we went to recently had banned all 4 Wheel Drives due to being called out all the time to get people unstuck. So it was too much of a hassle to take time off from regular duties to go running around pulling people out. He had only allowed ATVs for the last couple of years due to that.

Again not sticking up for anyone, just looking at what it would be like on both sides of the fence so to speak. Do I want to go to "classes", not really but that's the way it is. Sat through a class yesterday for work where I have about 20 years experience and the instructor has 5. Boring as all get out but....hey they paid me to sit there! :wink:

So before this turns into another 16/18 pages like the other forums..... :lol:

1996xj · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:24 am

Thank's Marty, IMO the average guy that wheel's on the weekend dosen't have $500.00 dollar's sitting in his pocket for a tow ! I think the owner operator of this park shold look at the economy and the blue collar folks that wheel there and come up with a better number !! :wink:

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:39 pm

Scott I agree with you completely, but if you read through the hundreds of pages it seems that if you can get the rig off the trail yourself then no problem. It is only if "major damage" is done and the rig can not be removed ( i.e. whole front diff torn out from under the Jeep) then it would need to be lifted and more or less carried out.

AAA is not going to come back in there and drag you out on a rollback.

Again not on anyones side, 500 bucks is a ton of money for most everyone , but thats the way it is. If you wheel there and break down hopefully its not to that point that you would even need their help.

Some areas say down in Livingston would be the same way. I have been on a few roads down in that area that there would be no way to drag one out easily or have a wrecker come in. So what would you do then.

RAYMAN975 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:04 pm

i used to work there as staff, and i believe this is being blown way out of proportion. not saying that it is or isnt too much money, or that i agree or disagree. i dont work there anymore, not because im mad at him, or didnt like how things were run. i left there because my main job, work was slow, i ended up getting a second job and working 7 days a week with the 2 jobs, and didnt have time, nor the money to risk breaking stuff on my jeep, or replacing wheelbearings/seals/brakes from the mud and sand, once a month for the whole year i went there. i need to pay off bills/credit cards, and save and put away money.

its his rules, i have no say in it. he warns you ahead of time, like tom said. now im not sure if he sometimes didnt mention the $500 dollar fee recently or whatnot, but everytime i was there, he mentioned it. if its seriously BROKE down and busted that it has to be dragged out and shredding the trail from dragging you out, THATS where the $500 dollars comes into play. there was one guy who RIPPED the rear axle totally off his jeep, and was sitting under his drivers door, its situations like that, that you would need the big excavator to pick it up and roll it out of there.

he lets people pull each other out, as long as they have correct tow straps, or winches, and know how to use them and arent being stupid about it. he doesnt want to see somebody stomping the gas pedal and ripping someones bumper off, sending parts flying, no does he want to see someone mis-using a winch, standing close to it, and not using a winch-line damper should a line snap, and see someone get hurt or killed. and there is also staff there that will winch you out of a situation and decide whats best. its his butt, and doesnt want people to get hurt, bottom line. is he the know-it-all about EVERYTHING and knows best? probably NOT, but he knows enough about whats right and whats wrong for the most part to keep people from getting injured, and its his events and his rules.

not saying i agree, or disagree, im not saying anything. but i just wanted to somewhat try and clear this up. he is a good guy once you get to know him.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:30 pm

Thanks Ray. I was hoping you would jump in and let us know your feelings on this.
So for me I am still looking forward to going there someday :wink:

RAYMAN975 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:49 pm

no problem Tom.

and does he use the best methods for interacting with people? public relations as some people call it? probably not. but sometimes you can tell that someone is a jerk, or a internet tough guy, just HOW they ask questions or reply to things online in a rude or asshole-manner. its his place, if he doesnt want a certain type of person at his events, thats his choice. he wants a family oriented environment, not a bunch of peope complaining and whining that its not hardcore enough for them, or people that think they have the most hardcore rig in the world and nobody is better than them, and just there to start drama and spread rumors etc.

but from my experience from the straight solid year that i went there. it was a great time. he cares about the families and that they are out there having fun and being safe.

nightdrv · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:59 pm

1996xj wrote:

I, do not see the LIGHT !! I am LOST !! Give me a hint !!! :idea:

Just noticed the post in the area... only wanted to say, you have the best avatar pic I've seen on here so far. Kudos to a great shot. No, perfect shot.

1996xj · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:45 pm

Thank's nightdrv, 1998rokee changed it today, Im computer stupid !! That pic. was from our outting at "SCENIC ROAD RALLEY" DEVIL STAIRCASE sounds serious but wasn't !!

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:03 pm

i stopped going when you had to go to 'class'. signing my life away on wavers is safe enough for me... as for the $500 recovery fee.. if it's something where you need a bulldozer to recover your rig then i think that's justified.. wont find it cheaper if you have to wire an our side source to recover it way back in the woods. However you have to PAY to get in and sit in 'class' that is only held at certain times... certain days.. certain months... at least that's how it was when the 'classes' were starting.

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:28 pm

Thanks for bringing this up.

I am going there tomorrow. I don't plan on getting in over my head. I am bringing my 3-year old with me.

Anyone else interested/going?

RAYMAN, can I / should I bring my dog?

tommudd · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:39 pm

wish I had some more advanced notice but....have fun!

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:56 pm

I'll keep you posted Tom. I will not be making the January one (vacation), but I should be back in time for the February one.

I'm two more camera purchases away from getting into an older cherokee to build for this kind of stuff (unless my front diff grenades and I wind up SFA-ing my libby and getting into a Dodge 2500 cummins Diesel 6-speed 4x4), but this is going to be my first time out on a "real" trail, and I plan to begin to get more involved in 2010....

InCommando · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:53 pm

Although the minimum $500* fee is troublesome enough, the biggest problem is the amount of contredictory information posted by the owner regarding the feee, its not-true "no exceptions" rule, and claiming that some outside party he has no interest or ties to "ties his hands" on the fee and he gets nothing back out of it.

If I sell coke to McDonalds from the distributorship I own, it Is true that I do not sell coke to McDonalds customers. But to say that I have no interest in McDonalds selling coke... Does that help illustrate the point? It it is only 1 point.

* Among many claims the owner said that it is $500 "to even start the equipment up" and it goes up from there with there being maximum. To say a $500 fee is not actually accurate. Owner says $1200...pay up or they steal your rig.

Donkeykong · **Posted:** Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:11 pm

FWIW, I got stuck in the mud there yesterday... 2006 stock ride height... General Grabber AT2's... open diffs... tow hooks on the front, D-Link (shackle) off the back.....I was doing well until I got a big stupid stick lodged between my skid plate and engine.... then it turned into an anchor.

One of the wranglers turned around and pulled me out. No biggie. Very cool group. I plan to go back again

I felt VERY welcome there with my son and can't wait to bring both boys with me next time. I am careful to not do something I don't think I can handle, and I knew I was in over my head when we first started going down the backwoods loop. I mentioned it on the CB and they told me not to worry that the convoy I was in would get me out if we ran into any problems. I was bottoming out on what seemed to be frozen mud ruts... a bit scary, but fun nontheless.

Warning on a pay-to-wheel place

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