New OH bill may allow guns in bars

KJWildman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:47 pm

Personally I don't even own a gun except for a WWII souvenir my dad brought back from Germany off an SS officer. But I still believe in the right to carry and support the current CCW laws. However .......... this just doesn't make sense. Mixing drunks in a bar at 2AM and guns just doesn't sound like a smart idea!

Thoughts?

New OH bill may allow guns in bars
Posted: Dec 09, 2010 4:17 PM EST
Updated: Dec 09, 2010 6:00 PM EST

New OH bill may allow guns in bars

By Lisa Rantala

TOLEDO, OH (WTOL) - A new bill is being presented to the Ohio's House of Representatives that would permit concealed weapons inside bars.

As of now, guns are not allowed where alcohol is sold but that could change. If the new bill passes, bars like The Blarney would have to allow weapons.

The Blarney owner Ed Beczynski says he would be fine with it.

"The bad guys out there, they're carrying the weapons already. Why shouldn't we be allowed to protect ourselves?," Beczynski said. He says he's a gun advocate and doesn't see this law affecting business.

"If you don't have a good background, they're not going to give you that permit." Beczynski says he believes it's within his customers' rights.

However, it's apparent what guns inside such an establishment can mean. Earlier this year, a patron of downtown's Flames on the River was shot inside the bar.

Toledo Police Chief Mike Navarre has his own opinion of such a bill passing and says it sounds like a "very bad idea."

"I think it will result in more shootings at these type of establishments."

Chief Navarre says the city has a big problem with illegal guns already and passing this bill would make problems worse.

"If they're allowed to carry guns, they'll skip the fist fight [and] go right to [the] fire arm and shoot someone," Navarre said.

Ed Beczynski says the number of fights inside his bar are few. However, he adds that if the bill does pass, it should be up to the bar owner to make a final decision for his own establishment.

"If my customers are saying 'I don't want to go there because he allows guns', let me make that decision and maybe I change my mind based on that."

The bill could hit the House floor by Tuesday.

Albert · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:56 pm

Holy Toledo.................... :mrgreen:

Nightfisher · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm **Posts:** 122

Get caught drinking while carrying one time and you will lose your permit. Tons of folks already carry concealed everywhere they go, this just makes it legit to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. It would still be illegal to carry while under the influence. Those that drink while carrying would still do it anyways regardless of the law. Some are just hard headed and irresponsible.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:55 pm

I see it as iffy

I totally get both sides

I'm a big CCW proponent

I also support revocation and prison for those who carry while under the influence

Sorry, when it comes to self defense, the lines can be cloudy enough as it is, without the defender having a trace of alcohol or any sort of circumstance that draws questions upon that persons level of judgment

The stipulations will probably chance to disallow carry on properties that have a purpose of existence that puts their purpose as primarily being alcohol vendors

I've always thought the regulations vs. restaurants and such that "serve" alcohol in addition to, primarily food, was borderline ridiculous

By good faith.. and some naive thought..

I think that reg. was put there to keep those under the influence away from those with CCW's rather than to "prevent" those with CCW's from drinking.

Responsible CCW behaviors primarily surround judgment issues.. which means no drinking

I've been to plenty bars without drinking, don't have to drink to have a good time - at the same time I'd rather hit someone with my fist or a chair if they're inebriated - and inebriated people usually make me want to commit that action without any provocation anyway..

but that being said, overall, I think I'd prefer to keep it restricted from locations that primarily sell alcohol -- allow it in restaurants as it's safer on you that it is in your vehicle but if you're going to a bar, leave it at home

let the owners / operators assume responsibility for that mess while you're on their property

KJWildman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:32 am

^^^^ Well said ^^^^ !!

Nightfisher · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm **Posts:** 122

TAHOE · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:29 pm

Down my way they carry guns in /out of bars...CCW permit or not :dizzy:

ArcherAce · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:31 pm

Saying its about carrying in bars is not what its really about. The media in toledo is notoriously anti gun. The media refer to it as bar carry, those who are for it call it restaurant carry.

The way its written now, I have to disarm before I can take my family into a restaurant that severs alcohol, such as red lobster or even a coney island. That is the real issue.

As far as the business owner being responsible for the mess, you are mistaken. ORC says that if a business posts and something happens, I can not sue them for forcing me to leave my gun in the jeep.

Remember too that we are talking about law abiding CHL holders. AFAIK nobody in last summers route 66 bar shooting held a CHL.

Here's some facts from OFCC
http://ohioccw.org/files/SB239-Facts.pdf

Nightfisher · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm **Posts:** 122

If it's a place that's legal to carry and they post a sign saying "no guns" it does not mean it is illegal to carry there. The most they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, issue a trespass. There is a reason they call it CONCEALED carry. What they don't know won't bother them.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:38 pm

Nightfisher wrote:

If it's a place that's legal to carry and they post a sign saying "no guns" it does not mean it is illegal to carry there. The most they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, issue a trespass. There is a reason they call it CONCEALED carry. What they don't know won't bother them.

Actually in some states, that will get your CCW revoked

ArcherAce · **Posted:** Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:12 pm

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

Actually in some states, that will get your CCW revoked

But ohio isn't one of them. :lol:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:31 pm

Just sayin, have to be careful with wording, people outside of OH read this stuph

Then you run into things like, weapons posted on federal / state areas
which does include CCW

pretty sure you know i'm for it..

one of my other gripes with NC's CCW regs was their emphasis on the posted areas, apparently unlike ohio

for instance, a mall with the posting or any place that served alcohol including restaurants

mall's and restaurants were my biggest gripes

Nightfisher · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm **Posts:** 122

ArcherAce wrote:

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

Actually in some states, that will get your CCW revoked

But ohio isn't one of them. :lol:

VA either

Good point though. Laws do vary widely depending on your state. Were talking stores here. NOT schools, churches or other places clearly stated in the laws that go with CCW that one should have read and learned before even applying. I should have been more specific. I tend to blurt sometimes.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:00 pm

Yeah they tend to be places of public "forum" like a outdoor meeting arena and such or federal/state property

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Bottom line is the Government will always make it difficult for a law abiding citizen to obtain a gun or permit of any kind. The crimminals WILL ALWAYS have guns regardless of what crippling (and unconstitutional) laws are in place. Crimminals don't care what laws are in place, ya right the Brady Bill works awesome :roll:

Nightfisher · **Joined:** Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:35 pm **Posts:** 122

Quote:

Bottom line is the Government will always make it difficult for a law abiding citizen to obtain a gun or permit of any kind.

I found that to not be true when I went to get my gun and carry permit. Picked out my pistol, filled out the paperwork, waited 15 minutes for the background check and was out the door. When I bought a shotgun from Wallyworld it was WAY more involved. Took almost 2 hours to get through the process, then had to have a darn manager carry it to the door. That's right. Walmart will sell me a shotgun, but they don't trust me to carry it to the door. Getting a carry permit here is pretty simple too as long as your record is clean. Yes, there are fees and certifications that must be done for CCW, but they are pretty minimal here. Either a hunters safety course, or a gun safety course will satisfy the certification requirement for $75, and the permit itself is another $50. If one has a clean record and no mental issues those are the only hoops to jump through, at least in my locality. Of course here in VA we can also forgo the permit and legally open carry if we choose, but you very, very rarely see anyone do so because of the unwanted attention it attracts. I would encourage everyone who can legally carry to do so. Just be responsible. Stay within the laws and be sure unattended guns are locked up securely where thieves or kids can not get to them.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:11 pm

my orig. nc county of residence required 3 notarized signatures of character witness, and since their background check wasn't computerized, took an average of 3 weeks for processing

since nc is a WILL permit state, i found the 3 notarized signatures of character witness to be friggin ridiculous

so I moved

my second county was like you said, took about 15 minutes, fee for background check, fee per permit, and standardized process for CCW's

ArcherAce · **Posted:** Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:01 pm

SB17 passed! In 100 days it will be law. :mrgreen:

Knightrider03m · **Posted:** Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:22 pm

BugginKJ wrote:

Bottom line is the Government will always make it difficult for a law abiding citizen to obtain a gun or permit of any kind. The crimminals WILL ALWAYS have guns regardless of what crippling (and unconstitutional) laws are in place. Crimminals don't care what laws are in place, ya right the Brady Bill works awesome :roll:

+1

I'm going to Baltimore and was going through all the states that I can and can't carry in. Some of the rules that is set in place by the state is just crazy.

BugginKJ · **Joined:** Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 4576

Also don't forget about the unconstitutional laws put in place by citys, towns and the sherriff of his own little world :roll:

All of course designed to make you strap a cop to your hip instead of your own protection. Just like a pocket knife I used to carry with me which was 1/2" over legal limit for carrying in your pocket, considered concealed carry by local law enforcement when he puffed his doughnut chest out and exclaimed he could drag me off to jail for that. BUT it is totally legal to strap a sword or a bowie knife to your hip as long as it is showing just like open carry. But I dare anybody to try that in our modern world for 24 hours and not get harrassed by doughnut boy or super girl cop. :banghead:

Which is why I carry a dozen doughnuts at all times, it's great bait and works better than 911 :jester:

New OH bill may allow guns in bars

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