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 Post subject: Moab Get together for LOST JEEPS - BLM issues/permits
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:27 am 
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KJ / JK Whatever
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As you may all know, this is not a task that can be taken care by only one person

I have volunteered to lead this and I have been given the green light to do so.

Please post if you want to help.

The biggest help needed will be in getting sponsors involved for our raffle. We have gotten great donations in years past and hopefully we can do it again for 2010.

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Last edited by KJ-BOL on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:56 am 
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I know it's early in the planning stages, but a few things to think about. I've listed some of them that need to be addressed in no particular order:

- What trails will be offered and on what days?

- Are there going to be several different trails offered each day to keep the groups smaller and allow for difficulty ratings and the different levels of modifications of a person's Jeep and their off road driving experience? We shouldn't be held back by someone say in a stock height Jeep wanting to do a trail that the vehicle is obviously not properly equipped for.

- Will there be selected trail leaders beforehand and will they be familiar with the trails they are going to lead?

- How about vehicle inspections and minimum equipment requirements such as straps, jacks, CB or FRS radios, fire extinguishers, first aid kits, tools etc?

If you need help putting together trail combination's, I am familiar with most of the easy to moderate rated trails and can offer some insight if needed.

And if I may ask... who all is on the planning committee for this event?

Thanks,
AJ

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:31 pm 
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KJ / JK Whatever
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All of that will be considered
We are on the very early planning stages and bit by bit I'll post a bunch of threads to help everyone figure out what the event will be like....

As far as your questions about who else is on the planning.... I'm heading this one this time - this is a one man show right now but i do know for a fact that I can count on some members that have attended this event in the past

Also, that is why I posted asking for volunteers to help in other areas.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Thanks for the reply, and yes I realize this event is in the early planning stages, that's why I asked and offered some suggestions. I was also just curious as to who all was involved in planning, and if they were familiar with the area. So, as I said above, if you need help with trail combination's etc, let me know... if not, then I'll most likely see ya in Moab on opening day.

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 Post subject: Legal Issues
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:35 am 
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You may want to check into the legalities of having LOST Safari in MOAB. Unfortunately, MOAB was infested with CA's primary export and there are many rules these days. The organizers should check with the BLM FO in MOAB since each one is different. Basically, permits and insurance are required for groups to run the trails. The last time I looked into it, the number was 25 but I am not sure if that's rigs or people. The permit is $75 per vehicle I believe; plus the cost of event insurance. I recommend checking with the BLM FO especially since this event is being advertised all over the earth.

A link to the SRP Handbook

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/moab_fo/campgrounds/special_recreation.Par.81484.File.dat/Utah%20BLM%20Special%20Recreation%20Permit%20Process%20Handbook.doc.pdf

Some excerpts:

"The Consequences of Operating Without a Permit
Operating without a required SRP or participating in a non-permitted event or activity that
requires a SRP is a Federal Class A criminal misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to
$100,000 and 12 months incarceration."

"2. An Organized Group Activity permit is required for group outdoor recreation activities or
events which are neither commercial nor competitive. The authorized officer determines when a
permit is required based on planning decisions, resource concerns, user conflicts, public health
and safety, and/or the need for resource monitoring. Examples: family reunions and organized
four-wheel drive events. Contact the appropriate BLM office to determine if a SRP is required
for your event."


I recommend that the organizers take this very seriously. These days UT is a hotbed of land issues and the Fed's as well as SUWA are watching closely.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:47 am 
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JL is right, and I'm glad he brought it up. If we have fewer than 15-20 rigs coming, I really don't think we have much to worry about

If you want, I can do a little poking around. A guy I work with is very active with the Wasatch Cruisers, whose annual "Cruise Moab" event is probably about 2-3 times as big as our biggest has ever been. I'll see how they've dealt with this.

Here's what I know:
  • They have a 5-year permit, just like RR4W has for EJS
  • Their permit allows for up to 200 rigs
  • An additional permit is required for overnight runs into certain areas
  • In 2007, participant registration was $95. "Registration gets you in to the event, 3 days of guided trail runs, dinner, t-shirt, sticker, registration schwag, and much more."

BTW: Use fees for organized group and event use are currently charged at the rate of $4 per person per day or the $90 minimum fee, whichever is greater. All SRP fees are due in advance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:55 am 
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I know that at last months U4WDA board meeting there was a discussion about Winter Convention 2010. Someone asked "Why not MOAB?" and there rules I posted where cited as why it would be impossible. The Winter Convention will be in St George in conjunction with another event instead.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:54 pm 
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KJ / JK Whatever
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I will contact the Moab office and ask questions

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Last edited by KJ-BOL on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:21 pm 
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Liability Insurance Minimum Requirements by Level of Risk
SRP Event or Activity Per Occurrence Per Annual
Aggregate
Low Risk: general non-competitive and non-
commercial activities such as group camping, group
activities, mounted orienteering, backpacking, or dog
trials.
$300,000 $600,000


Moderate Risk: whitewater boating, horse endurance
rides, OHV events, mountain bike races, rock
climbing (with ropes), ultra-light outings, rodeos
$500,000 $1,000,000


High Risk: bungee jumping, speed record events,
unaided rock climbing $1,000,000 $2,000,000 -
$10,000,000

Fees
Use fees for organized group and event use are currently charged at the rate of $4 per person
per day or the $90 minimum fee, whichever is greater. All SRP fees are due in advance.

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Last edited by KJ-BOL on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:10 pm 
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I'm finding more stuff

directly from the BLM website:
"For organized 4WD events: Special Recreation Permits are currently required for all organized events utilizing twenty-five vehicles or more."

From Sharetrails.org:
"There is no longer a 50 vehicle threshold for BLM. Each District Office sets the threshold for permitting requirements via the Land Use Planning process. Most BLM offices are in the process of updating their management plans, and as these new plans are finalized the 50 vehicle rule of thumb will no longer apply. New BLM plans in Utah, for example, put the limit at 25 vehicles."

"If the event is advertised with the intent of drawing participants from outside a club or group, that would trigger the permit requirement. If the advertisement is simply in a club newsletter or on a club website, and is intended to simply notify members of the event, that in itself would not necessarily trigger the permit requirement. Of course the event itself may trigger a permit requirement for other reasons."

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:36 pm 
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This what some of the fees that EJS charges to participate goes towards. They also close the trails during EJS so only peeps who paid go on them. Southern UT has developed a bit of a hippy problem.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Ok
Got a reply from the Moab Field office and this is the final response
Lets put a close to this discussion and lets move on



***********************************

Hello Henry -

Thank you for your email and questions regarding use of the designated
motorized routes managed by the Moab Field Office. As of October 2008 the
new Resource Management Plan (RMP) was signed and a motorized travel plan
was designated. The plan clearly states that all motorized travel must be
on designated routes (with the exception of the 1,866 acre White Wash Sand
Dunes designated open area). There are maps available for free on our home
page that you may print out:
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/moab/rec ... /copy.html
There are several changes, such a s Mill Canyon is no closed to motorized
use, however, the bulk of the area and commonly used trails remain the open
and are designated through the RMP. If you have questions about specific
areas, please give this office a call or stop in while you are in town.
Either myself, Katie or Bill Stevens would be happy to help.
The RMP also clearly stated that groups of 25 or more vehicles are required
to obtain a Special Recreation Permit (SRP). It sounds as though your group
size is smaller than the 25 trigger number.
There are several questions
that are typically asked when attempting to clarify whether an SRP is
needed - is there an exchange of money, goods and services such that
someone is benefiting though use of public lands? are there corporate
sponsors? is the event open to any and all who wish to participate? is
there a type of registration? is there a duty to care that participants are
expecting in the event of an accident? is this an annual event, recurring
multiple times or sporadic?
Please feel free to give me a call and we could work through specifics,
both route related and event related. Thank you for your good intentions
and willingness to work with the land managing agency! As always, we thank
all recreationists for recreating responsibly and staying on the trails!!

Jennifer Jones- Outdoor Recreation Planner
Moab BLM, 82 East Dogwood, Moab, UT 84532
phone: 435-259-2136
fax: 435-259-2158
email: jljones@blm.gov

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Sounds like future Moab "events" should just be casual gatherings of 24 rigs max per trail ride. :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:16 pm 
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JJsKJ wrote:
Sounds like future Moab "events" should just be casual gatherings of 24 rigs max per trail ride. :wink: :wink:


Ditto....enough said...yes 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:03 am 
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I think the more important issue is: what will we Phoebe's Moab title be?

(there aren't many bushes) :lol:

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