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 Post subject: TRAILS, TRAILS, TRAILS
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:12 pm 
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KJ / JK Whatever
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STOCK

- Fins 'n Things
- Elephant Hill (About 125 miles Round Trip)
- Secret Spire
- Chicken Corners
- Gemini Bridges / Bull Canyon

MODDED

- Seven Mile Rim
- Top of the World/Rose Garden Hill/ Onion Creek
- Poison Spider Mesa
- Gold Bar Rim
- Metal Masher
- Hell's Revenge
- Kane Creek


HEAVY MODDED

- Triple Whammy (Poison Spider Mesa, Golden Spike, Gold Bar Rim ~ (Rusty Nail Optional)
- Moab Rim ~ This one is tentative - most of us have never done it so we would probably need a couple of good guides
- Behind The Rocks
- Cliffhanger
- Steel Bender (full trail)
- Strike Ravine


FYI....
This tentative only - nothing has been set in stone

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Last edited by KJ-BOL on Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:16 pm, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:42 pm 
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You're off to a good start!!

Note... Klondike Bluffs is closed at the bottom where you used to go up and over to Salt Valley Road and on to Tower Arch or Arches NP.

Other fun, scenic and less traveled trails you can consider adding to your list (several can be combined for a "full" day on the trail):

- Baby Lion's Back (M)
- Bull Canyon (M)
- Colorado River Overlook (M)
- Dome Plateau (M)
- Gemini Bridges (E)
- Lathrop Canyon (M)
- Lavendor Canyon (M)
- Long Canyon (E)
- Mineral Point (E)
- Onion Creek and Fisher Towers (E)
- Potash Road and Shafer Switchbacks (E)
- Tower Arch and Eye of the Whale Trail (M)

All of the above trails can be done in a stock height Liberty with good A/T tires, skids and tow hooks.

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Last edited by AZKJ on Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Kane Creek?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:26 pm 
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3D is my all-time least favorite trail. There's what seems like 5 miles of undulating lava rock. Very uncomfortable to drive over, and no technical challenges that I can remember.

Don't forget Flat Iron Mesa!

Also, I think you may have a couple of trails in the wrong categories:
- Porcupine Rim: Pretty easy--just a lot of washboard. A stock KJ should be fine.
- Kane Creek: I wouldn't do it without at least a rear locker. There's one spot that sends a lot of open Jeeps back home with their tails between their legs.
- Steel Bender: Only requires "heavy mods" if you do the full trail...which I'm not opposed to. But even then lightly modded Jeeps can get winched over the rough spots.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:29 pm 
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SFA doesn't snap at the ball joint
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Tokyo Joe did Kane creek open

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:33 pm 
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USAFCOP wrote:
Tokyo Joe did Kane creek open

Yeah, I guess it depends on what the rain does to the trail, and how much it gets torn up during EJS. I was open the first time I did it, too, but a couple of years ago I was on EJS and all of the open rigs (none of them KJs) turned around...but that may have been a lack of experience. Or maybe they freaked out when this Bronco broke a driveline.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:42 pm 
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SFA doesn't snap at the ball joint
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I think you hit the nail on the head on possibly the experience level of the driver. For us I do not think that will be an issue for the most part we as a group all respect each other and help each other through things and most of us will admit our true experience levels.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:33 am 
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KJ / JK Whatever
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Based on your comments and reading a bit more on the web, I have updated some of the trails

Moab Rim and Behind the Rocks are still a BIG maybe..... We might end up needing some help from a local
Dave Christensen comes to mind - For those who remember him (if I have his name correct), he led a WILD version of triple whammy a couple of years ago
Maybe he is a bit too much for us...
:wink:

Keep it coming

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:42 am 
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KJ-BOL wrote:
Based on your comments and reading a bit more on the web, I have updated some of the trails...

...Keep it coming


FYI and just a heads up... of the 5 stock trails you listed, two are rated difficult, which a stock KJ will have trouble with, three are rated medium which are doable with some scraping and one is a questionable how far it is open as I haven't run it in many years (I believe it is now a mountain bike trail). In addition, full skids would be highly recommended for all of the trails.

If you're going to make this worthwhile for the stock height and slightly modified crowd, you're going to need to run more of the easy to medium trails I listed above. If not, you'll hardly have enough trails to keep everyone busy if your goal is a "full" day on the trail for the entire week.....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:19 am 
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A couple additions :D

Trails that could be easily handled stock:
-Gemini Bridges
-Longs Canyon/Schafer Loop
-Secret Spire
-Klondike Bluffs--->Salt Valley Road
-White Rim
-Bull Canyon (off of Gemini Bridges)


I think I would remove Elephant Hill from the stock category though... it MIGHT be do-able in a stocker but they could expect some heavy scraping.

I'm also not sure if Cliffhanger is going to be passable in non-sfa KJ's this year.... the obstacle that turned us around is no better and there is an awful illegal bypass through the bushes that has seen a LOT of use :cry:

And I've run Moab Rim about a dozen times.... on my bike :lol: That would be fun to try!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:34 am 
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durangotang wrote:
A couple additions :D

Trails that could be easily handled stock:
-Gemini Bridges
-Longs Canyon/Schafer Loop
-Secret Spire
-Klondike Bluffs--->Salt Valley Road
-White Rim
-Bull Canyon (off of Gemini Bridges)


I think I would remove Elephant Hill from the stock category though... it MIGHT be do-able in a stocker but they could expect some heavy scraping.

I'm also not sure if Cliffhanger is going to be passable in non-sfa KJ's this year.... the obstacle that turned us around is no better and there is an awful illegal bypass through the bushes that has seen a LOT of use :cry:

And I've run Moab Rim about a dozen times.... on my bike :lol: That would be fun to try!

LOL... great minds almost think alike. Except for Secret Spire and the White Rim, which I haven't run, I've already lised the rest as stock doable. Klondike Bluffs is closed to 4x4's going all the way over the top to Salt Valley Road. I'm also thinking maybe Fins and Things should be removed from the stock trails??

Also IMHO, full skids should be required equipment on the stock height KJ's for the medium rated trails.

Silverdiesil's 1" lifted KJ on the southern part of Fins and Things, he came very close to damaging the front bumper. Just something to think about before taking a stock height KJ on this trail...

Image

Image

Another place a stock height KJ without skids will have problems with on the southern portion of the same trail...

Image

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It's an AZ LOST JEEPS thing....
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Last edited by AZKJ on Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:57 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:41 am 
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AZKJ wrote:
durangotang wrote:
A couple additions :D

Trails that could be easily handled stock:
-Gemini Bridges
-Longs Canyon/Schafer Loop
-Secret Spire
-Klondike Bluffs--->Salt Valley Road
-White Rim
-Bull Canyon (off of Gemini Bridges)


I think I would remove Elephant Hill from the stock category though... it MIGHT be do-able in a stocker but they could expect some heavy scraping.

I'm also not sure if Cliffhanger is going to be passable in non-sfa KJ's this year.... the obstacle that turned us around is no better and there is an awful illegal bypass through the bushes that has seen a LOT of use :cry:

And I've run Moab Rim about a dozen times.... on my bike :lol: That would be fun to try!

LOL... great minds almost think alike. Except for Secret Spire and the White Rim, which I haven't run, I've already lised the rest as stock doable. Klondike Bluffs is closed to 4x4's going all the way over the top to Salt Valley Road. I'm also thinking maybe Fins and Things should be removed from the stock trails??

Also IMHO, full skids should be required equipment on the stock height KJ's for the medium rated trails.


Fins and Thigns has been done numerous times in unlifted KJ's... I'd keep it on there because it's an awesome trail that stockers can do without too much trouble. Just need to be careful... :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:01 pm 
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durangotang wrote:
Fins and Thigns has been done numerous times in unlifted KJ's... I'd keep it on there because it's an awesome trail that stockers can do without too much trouble. Just need to be careful... :D

Agreed, all I said was skids should be required for stock KJ's.

I might clarify what I'm thinking about when we are talking about a "stock" KJ, which is basically how it came off the showroom floor... most with street tries, no skids or tow hooks. I'm just suggesting that anyone doing anything more than an easy rated trail be required to have good A/T tires, full skids and tow hooks to prevent damage to their vehicle and from becoming a hindrance for the rest of the properly equipped vehicles.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:55 pm 
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FYI
for all Trails and once we are set which one are being planned, we will list Trail Requirements.
Keep in mind that in years past, even having everything planned ahead of time, we always ended up scratching some off and/or combining two groups based on the attendance and rig capabilities.

Like I said on the first post, nothing is set in stone until that day comes... :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:01 am 
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I remember at least a couple of years when easy trails were planned but no stock KJs showed up, so they were cancelled.

Then again, I remember a stock diesel (the only stock KJ that showed up) starting Flat Iron Mesa with us and turning around halfway through--after he'd already done the hard stuff. :lol:

Personally, I don't go to Moab to drive on a dirt road--I can do that at home. But it is definitely important to plan for stockers, because the more people that show up, the better the event is as a whole. And, of course, if they come stock this year, they're almost guaranteed to come lifted the next. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:26 am 
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I have added Gemini Bridges / Bull Canyon as one day trip to the Stock/Slightly modded section
Looks like the exit to Salt Valley rd from Klondike Bluffs is in fact closed.
we can keep Klondike Bluffs as a loop trail.

I'm also adding a link to a good site (traildamage.com) for every trail listed

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:00 pm 
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For those interested in a good day trip there is also Hurrah Pass with Lockhart Basin. I think it's about 60 miles long, I did it back in 08 with a group of jeeps from my old club in Memphis. Awesome ride, one little tricky spot that a KJ with a locker would have no issues (it's where I got my driver's side damage from). Some pics of the trail are below...

This was taken about 5 miles into the trip...
Image

Awesome lookout point and Photo Op for you and your rig...
Image

Having a good spotter doesn't hurt...
Image

A little bit of Jeep Wave...
Image

OUCHIES!!!!
Image

I slid down into a nice big rock and there is the end result...needed a winch in order to get up, my wheelbase was not quite long enough to help get me up the ledge. If I had had a rear locker it wouldn't have been a concern I feel.

Well enough showing off, can't wait for the event!!

-Scott

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:01 pm 
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AZKJ wrote:
Silverdiesil's 1" lifted KJ on the southern part of Fins and Things, he came very close to damaging the front bumper.


"Close" counts only in horse shoes and hand grenades. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Elephant Hill will require full skids and rock rails. More importantly; real tires. There's a certain British tourist that can vouch for the need of real tires. After blowing one tire out and hiking back to the trail head for help, and begging us to drive his rental Jeep Commander out, we found his Jeep abandoned along the way after he blew out a 2nd tire. He was with a Ranger the last time we saw him so we're reasonably sure he's still alive.

This is what we found on the way back:

Jacked-up door
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Stuff hanging down
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Gash in the sidewall
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Rocky Mountain Pinstripe
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Spare Already installed
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Elephant Hill is a lot of fun but it's no joke.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:42 am 
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A few suggestions:

I've got to say that I've never understood the whole "day off" thing on Wednesday. Couldn't anyone choose to take any day off if they want to? And don't we ALWAYS end up doing an "unofficial" trail on Wednesday? Why not go ahead and plan for it?

Also...we've got to do Triple Whammy as an optional trail on one of these days, and preferably not Wednesday (because you always end up getting back to camp late and miss the raffle).

Gold Bar Rim is a pretty tame trail--a "mostly stock" KJ (1" lift and AT tires, no skids) can do it pretty easily. I think most modded KJs would enjoy Flat Iron Mesa or Steel Bender more. But I don't think we've ever done Gold Bar (on its own--not part of the Triple Whammy) with the KJ group, so I'm not opposed to it. Maybe those who want to could keep going and do the Triple Whammy (backwards) while the rest turn back.

But all of the trails you've suggested for modded KJs are great. 8) You could leave the list exactly as it is and I'd be perfectly happy.


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