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Deal or No Deal?
Buy it! 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
Pass on it. 69%  69%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: DEAL, OR NO DEAL?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:17 pm 
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2004 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon - $16,995

Listing: Used Vehicle
* Mileage: 11,319 Miles
* Body Style: SUV
* Exterior Color: White
* Interior Color: Tan
* Engine: 4.0L I6
* Transmission: AUTO
* Drivetrain: 4X4
* Wheelbase: 93 Inches

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Features
Fuel Economy EPA Highway (Mpg): 19 And EPA City (Mpg): 16, Four Disc Brakes Including Two Ventilated Discs, Driver And Passenger Front Airbag, Manual Softtop Convertible Roof, Audio System With AM/FM And CD Player, Front And Rear Alloy Wheels With 16 Inch Rim Diam And 8 Inch Rim Width, Conventional Lens Halogen Bulb Headlights, Front Fog Lights, Tachometer, Driver And Passenger Externally Adjustable Black Door Mirrors, Removeable Rear Window, Four Speaker(S), Fixed Hoop Convertible Rollover Protection, Cloth Seat Upholstery With Additional Cloth, Bucket Driver And Passenger Seat, Two One-Piece Bench Front Facing Removable Rear Seats With Zero Adjustments Tip/Tumble, Plastic Steering Wheel With Tilt Adjustment, Power Steering, Delayed/Fade Courtesy Lights, Cargo Capacity: Rear Seat Down (Cu Ft): 42.7 And All Seats In Place (Cu Ft): 9.1, Emission Control Level California, Unleaded Fuel 87, 19 Gallon Main Unleaded Fuel Tank, Oil Pressure, Low Fuel Level Warning, Clock, Two Head Restraints On Front Seats, Front Seat Center Armrest, Beam Front And Rear Suspension Rigid With Stabilizer Bar And Coil Springs, Ventilation System, Windshield Wipers With Variable Intermittent Wipe, Fullsize Alloy Rim Rear Spare Carrier Spare Wheel, Full Floor Console With Covered Storage Box, Front And Rear Differential Lock, Weights: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (Lbs) 4,600, Curb Weight (Lbs) 3,407, Gross Trailer Weight Braked (Lbs) 2,000 And Max Payload (Lbs) 800, External Dimensions: Overall Length (Inches): 150.1, Overall Width (Inches): 66.7, Overall Height (Inches): 70.9, Ground Clearance (Inches): 10.2, Wheelbase (Inches): 93.4, Front Track (Inches): 58.5, Rear Track (Inches): 58.5 And Curb To Curb Turning Circle (Feet): 36.7, 12v Power Outlet: Front And 1, Height Adjustable 3-Point Reel Front Seat Belts On Driver Seat And Passenger Seat, 3-Point Reel Rear Seat Belts On Driver Side And Passenger Side, Load Restraint Hooks2004 Wrangler Rubicon 4x4 Convertible, 11k, Auto, CD, Tow Pckg, Running Boards, 16" Alloys, Sharp & Mint Condition!

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Last edited by CrossBones on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:23 pm 
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It is still 4-5 yrs old (check the build date - could be 2003 date). Few miles but still aged.

Garaged kept? Ever used off-road? Wrecked? Check on that.

To me, too much. But that's me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:26 pm 
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I was planning to do a carfax report.

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 Post subject: Deal
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:36 pm 
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I think it looks like a great vehicle. I just thinking they're asking too much for it. If you can talk them down to around $13,000 I'd say go fo it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Yeah I think the same. Oh and look closer at the photo's. I see a clutch pedal. Yet it states auto trans?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Autotrader in Texas is showing about $16-18K for 04 Rubicons - however they have more mileage and generally lifts/tires

somehow I think there needs to be a story about the 11,000 miles - it's 4 almost 5 years old - that seems strange -

however the only real concern would be problems coming from sitting too long - was it stored properly? did it have reasonable maintenance? - is the battery good?

The vinyl's still clear so it was probably garaged - it's in snow country so you might check frame/skids for rust.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:16 pm 
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Well I prefer automatic trans, and stone white in a Rubicon. But here's the real deal breaker... the wife just pointed out something I overlooked... this thing has California emissions. No Deal.

Thanks for playing along.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:22 pm 
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California emissions?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:57 pm 
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callaway wrote:
California emissions?

X2 :?:

Nice Rubicon though, and a manual. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:27 pm 
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Look into it more and lowball them. Looks nice though. I'd rock it any day.

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 Post subject: Emissions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:21 am 
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Don't most cars come with California emissions now? Just to save money at the factory and not have to come up with two different systems.

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 Post subject: Re: Emissions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:32 am 
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VTNomad wrote:
Don't most cars come with California emissions now? Just to save money at the factory and not have to come up with two different systems.


Yes that is correct

and if you want a Rubi check out the Rubicon Owners Forum , always a bunch for Sale on there most have some mods already done and for a better price than that one

For me I would just buy an X and build it the way I wanted, cheaper , parts are everywhere to build your own Rubi equipped X cheaper and better

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 Post subject: Re: Emissions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:37 pm 
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tommudd wrote:
VTNomad wrote:
Don't most cars come with California emissions now? Just to save money at the factory and not have to come up with two different systems.


Yes that is correct

and if you want a Rubi check out the Rubicon Owners Forum , always a bunch for Sale on there most have some mods already done and for a better price than that one

For me I would just buy an X and build it the way I wanted, cheaper , parts are everywhere to build your own Rubi equipped X cheaper and better
According to a friend who is a Chevrolet Mechanic (Corvette Specialist), that is not correct.

In the features list, it states; " Emission Control Level California ".

I don't want a manual trans Rubicon, or one that has had any mods done to it. I prefer to do everything my own way from a pure stock vehicle. And if it was "mall rated" by the original owner, all the better. Also, if I was going to buy a Wrangler, I want a Rubicon.

As for this Rubicon, I'm taking a pass.

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 Post subject: Re: Emissions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:39 pm 
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CrossBones wrote:
tommudd wrote:
VTNomad wrote:
Don't most cars come with California emissions now? Just to save money at the factory and not have to come up with two different systems.


Yes that is correct

and if you want a Rubi check out the Rubicon Owners Forum , always a bunch for Sale on there most have some mods already done and for a better price than that one

For me I would just buy an X and build it the way I wanted, cheaper , parts are everywhere to build your own Rubi equipped X cheaper and better
According to a friend who is a Chevrolet Mechanic (Corvette Specialist), that is not correct.

In the features list, it states; " Emission Control Level California ".

I don't want a manual trans Rubicon, or one that has had any mods done to it. I prefer to do everything my own way from a pure stock vehicle. And if it was "mall rated" by the original owner, all the better. Also, if I was going to buy a Wrangler, I want a Rubicon.

As for this Rubicon, I'm taking a pass.
Your mechanic friend is wrong,in 2002 all vehicles sold in the USA had to be Cali complaint no matter what state they where sold in,before that there was 2 versions of the same vehicle,one for Cali and one for the rest of the USA.It got hectic so the feds changed it.My KJ states on the emission sticker that it is Cali compliant and it was bought,brand new,in South Dakota.It also states it is a low emssion vehicle also.


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 Post subject: Re: Emissions
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:49 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
CrossBones wrote:
tommudd wrote:
VTNomad wrote:
Don't most cars come with California emissions now? Just to save money at the factory and not have to come up with two different systems.


Yes that is correct

and if you want a Rubi check out the Rubicon Owners Forum , always a bunch for Sale on there most have some mods already done and for a better price than that one

For me I would just buy an X and build it the way I wanted, cheaper , parts are everywhere to build your own Rubi equipped X cheaper and better
According to a friend who is a Chevrolet Mechanic (Corvette Specialist), that is not correct.

In the features list, it states; " Emission Control Level California ".

I don't want a manual trans Rubicon, or one that has had any mods done to it. I prefer to do everything my own way from a pure stock vehicle. And if it was "mall rated" by the original owner, all the better. Also, if I was going to buy a Wrangler, I want a Rubicon.

As for this Rubicon, I'm taking a pass.
Your mechanic friend is wrong,in 2002 all vehicles sold in the USA had to be Cali complaint no matter what state they where sold in,before that there was 2 versions of the same vehicle,one for Cali and one for the rest of the USA.It got hectic so the feds changed it.My KJ states on the emission sticker that it is Cali compliant and it was bought,brand new,in South Dakota.It also states it is a low emssion vehicle also.


Mine says the same thing, and it was shipped to and bought out of West Virginia where they don't really care about emissions :twisted: about like S.D. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:26 pm 
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I misunderstood my friend, however...

Up until '08 all cars came with a sticker stating they were 50 state legal. This is no longer the case.

Various states have different emissions labeling requirements. There is no difference whatsoever in the actual hardware of the cars, all car are built to the same emissions standard. The different order codes are just to make sure you get the correct label for your state stuck under the hood.

The order code for the California State emissions is: YF5.
The order code for the Federal emissions is: FE9.

There are also a separate emission code for Connecticut/Maine/Mass/NY/PA/RI/Vermont: NE1

The dealers can also order a Federal emissions override (NC7) which lets a non-CA dealer order CA emissions.

He also just emailed me the official memo from GM that states more detailed info if anyone is interested. I didn't feel it was necessary to include this because it is seriously long. But if anyone is interested, I can.

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 Post subject: Details
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:44 am 
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Post it, I'd like to see the details. When the EPA set up the Clean Air Act back in the 70's, California already had air quality standards. This is because of the population, and the unique geology of California. Basically all the pollution in the valley stays in the valley because it is surrounded by mountains on all sides, whereas in other places it would just blow away.

So, because the EPA didn't act soon enough, California beat them to the punch and their laws have priority, so long as they meet or exceed EPA standards. For a while, other states weren't allowed to pass laws, because it was deemed it could affect interstate commerce (federally regulated) if everyone had a different set of regulations.

But, under the Bush administration (just a fact, not trying to be a Bush basher), the EPA hasn't been as active as they should have been changing 30 year old regulations, and some states have taken it into their own hands. Which they don't have the authority to do, but the feds don't seem to care about trying to stop them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:45 am 
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To: All General Motors Dealers May 9, 2007

From: Doug Fields
Director Dealer Network Planning and Investments

Subject: Emission Requirements for 2008 Model Year GM Vehicles
(Except Trucks over 14,000 lbs GVWR)
NOTE: APPLIES TO ALL GENERAL MOTORS FRANCHISES, REGARDLESS OF DIVISION

New for 2008 Model Year: Vehicles registered in Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island are required to meet California emission requirements (option code NE1).

This bulletin replaces and supersedes bulletin GM 07-03 dated February 8, 2007, and provides information on emission requirements applicable to all 2008 model year General Motors (GM) vehicles except for trucks over 14,000 lbs gross vehicle weight rating. Please be aware that an improper sale can result in fines of up to $32,500 per vehicle on the manufacturer, dealer, and/or customer.

As a convenience for dealers, GM has supplied Tables 1-3, which list the PLANNED certification of 2008 model year GM products. Because certification plans may change, the underhood VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION (VECI) label is the controlling document for purposes of determining whether a vehicle may be sold or registered in a particular state. Therefore, it is the sole responsibility of the dealer to review the underhood VECI label to make this determination, regardless of the information in Tables 1-3, which are provided only as a convenience to the dealer and are based only on certification PLANS as of the date of this letter.

Emission Ordering Options: The following emission options will be used for 2008 model year GM vehicles.

FE9 FEDERAL EMISSIONS. Use for ordering vehicles that will be registered in all states except California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont.

YF5 CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS. Use for ordering vehicles that will be registered in California.

NE1 CT/MA/ME/NY/PA/RI/VT EMISSIONS. Use for ordering vehicles that will be registered in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont.

Connecticut/Massachusetts/Maine/New York/Pennsylvania/Rhode Island/Vermont Emission Requirements: All new 2008 model year GM cars and trucks sold for registration in the states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont are required to meet California emission requirements. To meet these requirements, option code NE1 “CT/MA/ME/NY/PA/RI/VT EMISSIONS” should be ordered for 2008 model year vehicles that will be registered in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont. Note below under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles” that dealers in border states (Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio and West Virginia) are permitted, but not required, to order and sell NE1 “CT/MA/ME/NY/PA/RI/VT EMISSIONS” vehicles.

Please be aware that vehicles ordered/produced with emission option FE9 cannot be sold for registration in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont unless the vehicle is 50-state certified. To determine if a FE9 vehicle is 50-state certified, in addition to checking Table 1, the dealer MUST check the underhood VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION label to verify that the conformity statement on the label states that the vehicle or engine “CONFORMS TO … CALIFORNIA REGULATIONS” or “IS CERTIFIED FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA”. If the conformity statement does not contain either of these two specific phrases, the vehicle cannot be sold for registration in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont.

Please see Table 2 for a list of vehicles that are planned to be Federal-only certified, and are not certified to California emission requirements. The vehicles listed in Table 2 can not be sold for registration in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont. Sale of a vehicle listed in Table 2 for registration in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont is illegal, and can result in substantial fines on the manufacturer, dealer, and/or customer. In addition, the vehicle may need to be repurchased from the customer and resold in a state that does not require compliance with California emission requirements.

Special Note on Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island Requirements: Please note that the 2008 model year California emission requirements in Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island do not apply to trucks weighing between 8501 lbs and 14000 lbs gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). While federal-only certified trucks weighing 8501 – 14000 lbs GVWR may be sold for registration in Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, GM recommends, for simplicity, that NE1 be ordered for all vehicles that will be sold for registration in Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island, including trucks 8501 – 14000 lbs GVWR. Dealers in Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island may sell NE1 vehicles, including trucks weighing 8501 – 14000 lbs GVWR, to purchasers from any state.

California Emission Requirements: All new 2008 model year GM vehicles sold for registration in California are required to meet California emission requirements. To meet these requirements, option code YF5 “CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS” should be ordered for 2008 model year vehicles that will be registered in California. Note below under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles” that dealers in border states (Arizona, Nevada and Oregon) are permitted, but not required, to order and sell YF5 “CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS” vehicles.

Please be aware that vehicles ordered/produced with emission option FE9 cannot be sold for registration in California unless the vehicle is 50-state certified. To determine if a FE9 vehicle is 50-state certified, in addition to checking Table 1, the dealer MUST check the underhood VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION label to verify that the conformity statement on the label states that the vehicle or engine “CONFORMS TO … CALIFORNIA REGULATIONS” or “IS CERTIFIED FOR SALE IN CALIFORNIA”. If the conformity statement does not contain either of these two specific phrases, the vehicle cannot be sold for registration in California.

Please see Table 2 for a list of vehicles that are planned to be Federal-only certified, and are not certified to California emission requirements. The vehicles listed in Table 2 can not be sold for registration in California. Sale of a vehicle listed in Table 2 for registration in California is illegal, and can result in fines of up to $7,500 per vehicle on the manufacturer, dealer, and/or customer. In addition, the vehicle may need to be repurchased from the customer and resold in a state that does not require compliance with California emission requirements.

Federal Emission Requirements: All new 2008 model year GM vehicles sold for registration in all states except California and the northeast states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont are required to meet Federal emission requirements (except as explained below under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”). To meet these requirements, option code FE9 “FEDERAL EMISSIONS” should be ordered for 2008 model year vehicles that will be registered in all states except California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont.

Please be aware that vehicles ordered/produced with emission option NE1 or YF5 cannot be sold for registration in Federal emission states unless the vehicle is 50-state certified (or unless permitted by the “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”). To determine if a NE1 or YF5 vehicle is 50-state certified, in addition to checking Table 1, the dealer MUST check the underhood VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION label to verify that the conformity statement on the label begins with the phrase “THIS VEHICLE CONFORMS TO U.S. EPA REGULATIONS” or “THIS ENGINE CONFORMS TO U.S. EPA” or “THIS ENGINE AND VEHICLE CONFORM TO U.S. EPA”. If the conformity statement does not begin with any of these three specific phrases, the vehicle cannot be sold for registration in Federal emission states except as permitted by the “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”. If any of these three phrases is in the conformity statement, but not at the beginning, the vehicle cannot be sold for registration in Federal emission states except as permitted by the “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”.

Please see Table 3 for a list of vehicles that are planned to be California-only certified and are not certified to Federal emission requirements. The vehicles listed in Table 3 can not be sold for registration in Federal emission states (except as explained below under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”). Sale of a vehicle listed in Table 3 for registration in a Federal emission state is illegal, and can result in fines of up to $32,500 per vehicle on the manufacturer, dealer, and/or customer. In addition, the vehicle may need to be repurchased from the customer and resold in a state that does not require compliance with Federal emission requirements.


Emission Bypass Ordering: An emission override option will be required in cases where a dealer orders a 2008 model year emissions configuration that may not be legal for vehicle registration in the state in which the dealer is located. The dealer is responsible for verifying that the purchaser intends to register the vehicle in a state that permits the emissions configuration ordered by the dealer. Neither Maine nor Vermont dealers should use an emissions override because the Maine and Vermont regulations do not allow dealers to take delivery of a non-California certified (Federal) vehicle, even if the vehicle is to be sold to a customer who will register the vehicle in another state.

NB8 Required when option code FE9 “FEDERAL EMISSIONS” is ordered by a dealer located in California or the northeast states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island for a purchaser who will be registering the vehicle outside California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont.

NC7 Required when option code YF5 “CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS” or option code NE1 "CT/MA/ME/NY/PA/RI/VT EMISSIONS" is ordered by a dealer located in any state except California and the northeast states of Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont for a purchaser who will be registering the vehicle in California or one of these northeast states or sold as permitted below under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”.

50-State Emission Certification: The 2008 model year GM products listed in Table 1 are planned to be certified to meet the emission requirements of all fifty states. Because certification plans may change, the underhood VEHICLE EMISSION CONTROL INFORMATION (VECI) label is the controlling document for purposes of determining whether a vehicle may be sold or registered in a particular state. Therefore, it is the sole responsibility of the dealer to review the underhood VECI label to make this determination, regardless of the information in Table 1, which is provided only as a convenience to the dealer and is based only on certification PLANS as of the date of this letter.

Note that, for products in Table 1 that have an asterisk (*) next to the vehicle model name, emission option NE1 or YF5 must be ordered to receive the 50-state certification. In cases where it is uncertain as to where the vehicle will ultimately be sold and registered, such as for certain upfitters, NE1 or YF5 may be ordered to provide a 50-state certification as shown in Table 1. This will provide additional sales flexibility. However, the NE1 and YF5 50-state certifications may have more costly emission control systems than the FE9 Federal certification. Therefore, in cases where the dealer knows that the vehicle will be sold for registration in a state that has Federal emission requirements, the dealer is requested to order the FE9 federal certification.

Emission Statements on the Invoice and MSO A statement indicating the emission certification may also appear on the invoice and the Manufacturers Statement of Origin (MSO). The MSO is used by the Department of Motor Vehicles in some states to verify that the vehicle complies with the emission requirements applicable in that state. The following table lists the various emission statements that may be listed on the invoice and the MSO, and what those statements mean in terms of where the vehicle is certified for sale/registration. The emission certification indicated by the statements on the invoice and the MSO should be consistent with the emission certification indicated by the underhood Vehicle Emission Control Information label and the attached tables. If any of these pieces of information are inconsistent for a given vehicle, please contact General Motors immediately. Until such contact is made, the underhood Vehicle Emission Control Information label is controlling and overrides all other documentation and, therefore, should be assumed to be correct pending resolution with General Motors.

Statement on Invoice Statement on Manufacturers Statement of Origin Table
Number Where Vehicle Is Certified for Sale/Registration
50-STATE EMISSIONS THIS VEHICLE HAS A 50-STATE EMISSION SYSTEM Table 1 All 50 states
FEDERAL EMISSIONS THIS VEHICLE HAS A FEDERAL EMISSION SYSTEM Table 2 All states except California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont
CALIFORNIA EMISSIONS THIS VEHICLE HAS A CALIFORNIA EMISSION SYSTEM Table 3 California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont*
CT/MA/ME/NY//PA/RI/VT EMISSIONS THIS VEHICLE HAS A CALIFORNIA EMISSION SYSTEM Table 3 California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont*
*May also be sold by dealers located in states that border California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont as permitted under “EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles”.

EPA Policy on the Sale of California Emission Vehicles: EPA’s policy for the 2008 model year as it applies to GM products is as follows. EPA allows dealers in California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont and their contiguous states to sell vehicles that meet California emission requirements to purchasers from any state in the U.S. Therefore:
• Vehicles that are ordered with option code YF5 (or NE1) may be sold by dealers in California and its contiguous states (Arizona, Nevada and Oregon) to purchasers from any state in the U.S.
• Vehicles that are ordered with option code NE1 (or YF5) may be sold by dealers in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and their contiguous states (Delaware, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Ohio and West Virginia) to purchasers from any state in the U.S.

Clean Fuel Vehicle Requirements: Federal or state law may require certain fleet owners in certain metropolitan areas to purchase vehicles meeting Federal Clean Fuel Vehicle (CFV) requirements (also known as Clean Fuel Fleet, or CFF). Based on a determination made by the U.S Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA), all 2008 model year GM vehicles ordered with option code FE9 “FEDERAL EMISSIONS” meet the Clean Fuel Vehicle Low Emission Vehicle (CFV LEV) standards. Because of this, GM is not offering a unique CFV option code (i.e. VCL) in the 2008 model year. Dealers can simply order FE9 to receive a CFF LEV qualifying vehicle. As stated earlier in this letter, FE9 should not be ordered for vehicles that will be registered in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont. Vehicles ordered with the NE1 or YF5 emission options that are also 50-state emission certified as identified in Table 1 and on the underhood Vehicle Emission Control Information label will also qualify toward the CFF LEV requirements.

Table 1
2008 Model Year GM Products
Planned to be 50-State Emission Certified
Vehicle Models Emission
Options Engines
Buick Products
Enclave FE9, NE1, YF5 LY7
LaCrosse FE9, NE1, YF5 LS4, LY7
*Lucerne NE1, YF5 L37, LD8
Terraza FE9, NE1, YF5 LGD, LZ9
Cadillac Products
CTS FE9, NE1, YF5 LLT, LP1, LY7
*DTS (including Hearse, Limousine) NE1, YF5 L37, LD8
Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT FE9, NE1, YF5 L92
STS FE9, NE1, YF5 LC3, LH2, LLT
SRX FE9, NE1, YF5 LH2, LY7
XLR FE9, NE1, YF5 LC3, LH2
Chevrolet Products
*Avalanche NE1, YF5 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Aveo FE9, NE1, YF5 LXT
Cobalt FE9, NE1, YF5 LE5, LNF
*Colorado NE1, YF5 LH8, LLR, LLV
*Corvette NE1, YF5 LS3
Corvette FE9, NE1, YF5 LS7
Equinox FE9, NE1, YF5 LNJ, LY7
*Express Passenger & Cargo Vans NE1, YF5 LY6
Express Cargo Vans (must have YF7 Upfitter option) FE9 LY6
Express Passenger Vans (must have one of the following seating options: ZX2, ZP5, ZP8 or 8V5) FE9 LY6
Express Passenger & Cargo Vans FE9, NE1, YF5 LMF, LMM, LU3, LY2
Express Cutaway (Models CG33503, CG33803, CG33903) FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY2, LY6
HHR FE9, NE1, YF5 L61, LE5, LNF
Impala FE9, NE1, YF5 LZE, LZG, LS4
*Malibu Classic NE1, YF5 LZ4
Malibu Classic FE9, NE1, YF5 L61
Malibu FE9, NE1, YF5 LAT, LE5, LY7, LZ4
*Silverado NE1, YF5 L76, LC9, LH6, LMG, LY2, LY5, LY6
Silverado FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LU3
Silverado Chassis Cab (Models CC31003, CK31003, CC31403, CK31403, CC31503, CK31503) FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY6
Silverado ZW9 Box Deletes (Models CC20903, CK20903, CC20943, CK20943, CC20953, CK20953, CC30903, CK30903, CC30943, CK30943, CC30953, CK30953) and must have RPO ZW9 FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY6

*For products that have an asterisk (*) next to them, the NE1 or YF5 emission option must be ordered to receive the 50-state certification. If the FE9 emission option is ordered, the vehicle can not be sold for registration in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont.

Table 1 (continued)
2008 Model Year GM Products
Planned to be 50-State Emission Certified
Vehicle Models Emission
Options Engines
Chevrolet Products (continued)
*Suburban NE1, YF5 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Suburban FE9, NE1, YF5 LY6
*Tahoe NE1, YF5 LMG, LY2, LY5
Tahoe FE9, NE1, YF5 LFA
*Trailblazer NE1, YF5 LL8
Trailblazer, Trailblazer SS FE9, NE1, YF5 LH6, LS2
Uplander FE9, NE1, YF5 LGD, LZ9
GMC Products
Acadia FE9, NE1, YF5 LY7
*Canyon NE1, YF5 LH8, LLR, LLV
*Envoy NE1, YF5 LL8
Envoy FE9, NE1, YF5 LH6
*Savana Passenger & Cargo Vans NE1, YF5 LY6
Savana Cargo Vans (must have YF7 Upfitter option) FE9 LY6
Savana Passenger Vans (must have one of the following seating options: ZX2, ZP5, ZP8 or 8V5) FE9 LY6
Savana Passenger & Cargo Vans FE9, NE1, YF5 LMF, LMM, LU3, LY2
Savana Cutaway (Models TG33503, TG33803, TG33903) FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY2, LY6
*Sierra NE1, YF5 L76, LC9, LH6, LMG, LY2, LY5, LY6
Sierra FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LU3, L92
Sierra Chassis Cab (Models TC31003, TK31003, TC31403, TK31403, TC31503, TK31503) FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY6
Sierra ZW9 Box Deletes (Models TC20903, TK20903, TC20943, TK20943, TC20953, TK20953, TC30903, TK30903, TC30943, TK30943, TC30953, TK30953) and must have RPO ZW9 FE9, NE1, YF5 LMM, LY6
*Yukon NE1, YF5 LMG, LY2, LY5
Yukon FE9, NE1, YF5 L92, LFA
*Yukon XL NE1, YF5 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Yukon XL FE9, NE1, YF5 L92, LY6
Hummer Products
H2 FE9, NE1, YF5 L92
*H3 NE1, YF5 LH8
*H3 (with M30 automatic transmission) NE1, YF5 LLR
H3 (with MA5 manual transmission) FE9, NE1, YF5 LLR

*For products that have an asterisk (*) next to them, the NE1 or YF5 emission option must be ordered to receive the 50-state certification. If the FE9 emission option is ordered, the vehicle can not be sold for registration in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont.

Table 1 (continued)
2008 Model Year GM Products
Planned to be 50-State Emission Certified
Vehicle Models Emission
Options Engines
Pontiac Products
G5 FE9, NE1, YF5 LE5
G6 FE9, NE1, YF5 LE5, LY7, LZ4, LZ9
G8 FE9, NE1, YF5 L76, LY7
Grand Prix FE9, NE1, YF5 LS4
Solstice FE9, NE1, YF5 LE5, LNF
Torrent FE9, NE1, YF5 LNJ, LY7
Vibe FE9, NE1, YF5 LV6
Saab Products
9-3 FE9, NE1, YF5 LK9, LP9
9-5 FE9, NE1, YF5 LJ3
9-7X FE9, NE1, YF5 LH6, LL8
Saturn Products
Astra FE9, NE1, YF5 2H0
Aura FE9, NE1, YF5 LAT, LE5, LY7, LZ4
Outlook FE9, NE1, YF5 LY7
Relay FE9, NE1, YF5 LGD, LZ9
Sky FE9, NE1, YF5 LE5, LNF
*Vue NE1, YF5 LAT, LE5
Vue FE9, NE1, YF5 LY7, LZ4

*For products that have an asterisk (*) next to them, the NE1 or YF5 emission option must be ordered to receive the 50-state certification. If the FE9 emission option is ordered, the vehicle can not be sold for registration in California, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island or Vermont.


Table 2
2008 Model Year GM Products That Are Planned to be Federally-Only Certified And Are Not Legal for Registration in California, Connecticut,
Massachusetts, Maine*, Pennsylvania, New York, Rhode Island or Vermont*

Vehicle Models Emission
Options Engines
Buick Products
LaCrosse FE9 L26
Lucerne FE9 L26, L37, LD8
Cadillac Products
DTS (including Hearse, Limousine) FE9 L37, LD8
Chevrolet Products
Avalanche FE9 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Cobalt FE9 L61
Colorado FE9 LH8, LLR, LLV
Corvette FE9 LS3
Express Cargo Vans (except vans with YF7 Upfitter option) FE9 LY6
Express Passenger Vans (except vans with ZX2, ZP5, ZP8 or 8V5 seating options) FE9 LY6
Impala FE9 LZ4
Malibu Classic FE9 LZ4
Silverado FE9 L76, LC9, LH6, LMG, LY2, LY5
Silverado (except Chassis Cab and ZW9 Box Deletes) FE9 LY6
Suburban FE9 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Tahoe FE9 LMG, LY2, LY5
Trailblazer FE9 LL8
GMC Products
Canyon FE9 LH8, LLR, LLV
Envoy FE9 LL8
Savana Cargo Vans (except vans with YF7 Upfitter option) FE9 LY6
Savana Passenger Vans (except vans with ZX2, ZP5, ZP8 or 8V5 seating options) FE9 LY6
Sierra FE9 L76, LC9, LH6, LMG, LY2, LY5, LY6
Sierra (except Chassis Cab and ZW9 Box Deletes) FE9 LY6
Yukon FE9 LMG, LY2, LY5
Yukon XL FE9 L76, LC9, LMG, LY5
Hummer Products
H3 FE9 LH8
H3 (with M30 automatic transmission) FE9 LLR
Pontiac Products
G5 FE9 L61
Grand Prix FE9 L26
Saturn Products
Vue FE9 LAT, LE5
*In addition, vehicles listed in Table 2 may not be delivered to a dealer located in Maine or Vermont, even if the vehicle is sold to a customer who will register the vehicle in a Federal emission state.

Table 3
2008 Model Year GM Products That Are Planned to be California-Only Certified And Are Not Legal for Registration in Federal Emission States*

Vehicle Models Emission
Options Engines
Buick Products
LaCrosse NE1, YF5 L26
Lucerne NE1, YF5 L26
Chevrolet Products
Cobalt NE1, YF5 L61
Impala NE1, YF5 LZ4
Pontiac Products
G5 NE1, YF5 L61
Grand Prix NE1, YF5 L26
*Except as explained under “EPA Policy on the Sale of

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:52 am
Posts: 625
Location: DuPage County , IL
Note it cuts off - That's all I received in his email.

As for the Wrangler, I don't want a manual trans.

My local dealer will order a 2009 Rubicon with whatever I want, with a delivery time of 6 - 8 weeks .

TBA....

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