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 Post subject: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Location: Leverett, MA
My company has three 06 KJs, two auto, one six speed. One of the autos with 72k on it died on the highway a few weeks ago. It would start and run, but only for about 30 seconds, then it died. Turned out that one of the cats was clogged. Warranty fixed that problem, but not the cause. The boss almost got the dealership to cover the valves, but ultimately got shot down. Unfortunately that means that we're no longer going to be buying jeeps for company vehicles :(. Looks like we're going to be purchasing three brand new subarus in the next week or so :(. I'd much rather pull up to a jobsite in a liberty than a subaru...but oh well.

As the mechanics explained it to me, the valve locks had been keeping the valves from rotating like they should, and so they wore unevenly. One cylinder only has about 100 psi of compression!! 3 out of the 6 cylinders have way lower compression than they should have. No one had reported any misfires or rough idles with this thing, but it is a company vehicle and lots of people drive it, most of which have no idea even how to put it in 4 wheel drive!! It's going to cost at least 4k to fix this problem. I'll update with cost details once the work is done. They'll be pulling both heads, having them checked (hopefully not replaced), have the valves re-seated, put in new valves, and valve locks (maybe springs too?). Not an easy job.

We bought these three vehicles brand new in 07, and now this one has been out of commission for a few weeks, and although we are going to fix it, it's going to be out for a few more. This really sux that DC doesn't cover this issue. It is 100% a manufacturing defect and not due to any improper use. My wife and I own three jeeps (well, before we were married I had two, she had one) and we've never had any issues. I beat the absolute doo doo out of both of mine...both XJs with 4.0L/AW4/231...I've posted pics in the past, one on 36" TSLs, detroits f/r, the other on 32" MTs and rear locker, etc. Hers is a stock liberty with skids and tow hooks....will get a small lift someday.



Anyone else with an 05-06 KJ, I would highly recommend either having the valve locks replaced NOW, or selling it before it's too late!!

Here's the TSB http://home.comcast.net/~merchjo/jeep/jeeptsb-page-1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~merchjo/jeep/jeeptsb-page-2.jpg

Thank god my wife's KJ is an 04!!! 122k of abuse and still running great!! Knock on wood...
It's really too bad that we can't swap the 4.0L and AW4 into the liberty....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:25 pm 
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i have an 06 also and i am well aware of the valve lock problem. the problem is believed to be caused by carbon build up! i have been running shell v-power to combat this problem. the v-power has 5 times the epa minimum detergent level. i also do a top engine clean once a year! so far so good my idle is smooth as silk. mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:14 pm 
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I was under the impression that it was a manufacturer defect in the valve locks (the clips that hold the valves and spring in). The defective valve locks don't allow the valves to rotate like they're supposed to. When the valves rotate, the valves and the valve seats wear evenly, and continue to seal well. But with the defective ones, since the valves stay in the same spot all the time, the valves and the valve seats wear un-evenly and eventually don't seal very well, hence the low compression. The low compression and poor valve sealing allows fuel to blow by the valves into the red hot cat that's right after the manifold, and it doesn't take long for the cat to burn up because of it.

We have Mobil gas cards here at work so I'd say that probably 99% or more of the gas that went through the motor was from Mobil. There are barely any Shell stations around....which sux, because I like them. IMO, as a geologist, they're the best oil company out there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:42 pm 
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XJMA wrote:
I was under the impression that it was a manufacturer defect in the valve locks (the clips that hold the valves and spring in).

the tsb is not clear. but if that were true than every 05 and 06 liberty and dakota (3.7L) would have the problem, and this is not the case!! plenty of 05,s and 6's haven't needed the tsb. the way i understand it, once the valve stops rotating the vavle is burnt (toast) in short order. the rotation cools the valve, and valve survival is not long with out rotation! i believe the revised locks do a better job of rotating the valve when the carbon builds. we can theorize all we want but the engineers aren't saying why the valves rotate when new but fail to do so with higher mileage and why some don't have the problem at all?
also your cat melted down because the offending cylinder (s) weren't firing. i know how fleet vehicles are but it just boggles my mind nobody at your work found this problem. there are lots of warnings and the cat melting down is the last warning. i know how co-workers are though because our fleet vehicles at work are in real bad shape at 50,000 miles and it isn't the build quality if you know what i mean!
XJMA wrote:
We have Mobil gas cards here at work so I'd say that probably 99% or more of the gas that went through the motor was from Mobil. There are barely any Shell stations around....which sux, because I like them. IMO, as a geologist, they're the best oil company out there.

exxon mobil fails to say their detergency level on their web site! consequently they are not a top tier gasoline! Shell is the only top tier gas in my area. i would use chevron with techron but their are no chevron stations in my area (texaco is same as chevron). so i am stuck with shell (not complaining). i am not willing to take the risk with mobil!!! if i knew the detergency level like shell i would use it!

also bp is not a top tier gas but... they release their detergency levels! 87 octane has 2 times epa minimum, 89 has 3 times epa minimum and 93 has 4 times epa minimum.! so in a pinch i use bp! mike

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:02 am 
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I guess I will run some "techron " through mine.

Thanks for posting this.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Forget Techron, do the old Seafoam treatment. Blow all the crap right outta there and enjoy the smoke show as your neighbors scowl at you and pull their kids in off the street! :-)r

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:01 pm 
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yeah, it sux that they get so abused! I do understand that the cat failed because the gas blew by the valve and burnt up in the cat.


Unfortunately we don't have any good gas stations around here I guess....I NEVER see any Shell stations, or BP. Most are Mobil, Exxon (same thing), Hess, Cumberland Farms, Gulf, and Erving. The Mobil down the street from work just changed to Erving. And there are a lot of non-franchised 'mom and pop' gas stations around...."Country Gas, etc." Believe me, if there were Shell stations around, I'd go there! Not even any Sunoco stations around!!! WTF??!?!!! Off topic, any idea where Shell gets it's name??

Anyways, I'm really hoping that the problem isn't due to me idling the thing pretty much two days in a row, almost all day..... I was drilling (I'm a hydrogeologist, and I oversee soil borings and the installation of wells all the time...usually it's fun) for two days in a row in which the max ambient temps hit 5 degrees F, and the wind chill was subtracting 15 or so degrees....so it was Fn cold. I have to touch the soil with bare or thin gloved hands and doo doo...and I don't do much else for physical labor so it gets real cold. I kept hopping in and out of the vehicle to keep warm, and letting others do so as well. I REALLY hope that that didn't contribute to the failure!!! I'm usually the one who makes sure the oil gets changed on time, keep tires inflated (or not over-inflated as is usually the case), air filters changed, etc. I really hope it wasn't my fault!! Is there an addative that would be good to help us with crappy gas?? We have to idle the vehicles a lot sometimes for other reasons too....

The mechanics said that the valves would not have taken long to wear out and that the failure probably happened pretty quickly, within a few hundred miles. Once the valves started leaking, the cat failed quickly!! Oh well, we are fixing it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:29 pm 
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just fyi here are the epa designated top tier gasolines. all have alot more detergency than the epa minimum. mike

Link:
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:32 pm 
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So it's my understand is that this issue will NOT be covered by Jeep and will have to be PAID for buy the Jeep's owner ???

Is this correct ?

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:27 am 
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Katmandu wrote:
So it's my understand is that this issue will NOT be covered by Jeep and will have to be PAID for buy the Jeep's owner ???

Is this correct ?

If your out of the warranty period then yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:00 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
If your out of the warranty period then yes.


How and where do I find out if my Jeep is still covered under the 7yr/70,000 mile Powertrain Warranty ???

We bought our Liberty in July 2005. I believe they added the 7/70 around that time as well.

TIA!

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Katmandu wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
If your out of the warranty period then yes.


How and where do I find out if my Jeep is still covered under the 7yr/70,000 mile Powertrain Warranty ???

We bought our Liberty in July 2005. I believe they added the 7/70 around that time as well.

TIA!

If you bought it used then you would have to have paid a transfer fee for the 7/70 powertrain warranty,only applies if you where the 2nd owner,3rd owner your SOL.If you did not pay the transfer you do not have it.

If you bought it new you should have signed(and have a copy) of the 7/70 powertrain warranty paperwork.


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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:56 am 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
If you bought it new you should have signed(and have a copy) of the 7/70 powertrain warranty paperwork.

We bought it brand new with 6 miles on it. Has 40k on it now. I have no idea where the paperwork is......

Now what ??

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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:00 pm 
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With your VIN number the dealer can tell you what ever it is you want to know about your Jeep, including warranty coverage.


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 Post subject: Re: Valve Issue (TSB 09-007-06)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Thx for the scanned TSB... :wink:

bye,
samse

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