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 Post subject: PERMITS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:16 pm 
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AJ brought up a point that should be known about FITS. All trails will cross state trust land at one point or another. You need a permit to be on state trust land. There are two permits available one for $15 and one for $20...go here to get the permit. http://www.land.state.az.us/programs/natural/recreation_permit.htm You mail your app and payment in and they will get it back out to you as soon as they receive the app and payment. It is pretty painless and quick. I will not be checking if people have their permits it is your responsibility. If you decide to hit the trails without the permit and Johnny Law is out there checking for it...you will end up paying a fine that could buy a lot of permits 8) Okay so there it is I said it...it is up to you. If you have any questions please PM me.

Also, the actual flat spot that the Coke Ovens are on is considered private property. At the ASA4WD club meeting last year I was told that the Coke Ovens were once again opened. I have never seen anything in writing saying that the Coke Ovens land is allowed to be stepped on. We will take the trail to the Ovens but it is up to you if you will actually go up to them as it may be trespassing. I could not find any better info about this on the web. If I find more info I will post it.

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:45 am 
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bump

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:47 am 
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e-mail sent to the club officers concerning the Coke Ovens....

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Post your info AJ. As stated above it will not be a club choice, it will be a personal choice if you choose to go up to or into the Coke Ovens

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:46 am 
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Okay let me restate this. I will not be leading the club on to the Coke Ovens property(which is private property). I will take you down the hill to the wash that sits below the ovens. I hope this is clear. Due to us running the trail as a club it would reflect poorly on us to stop on the private land. If you want a closer look at the ovens I believe there is a trail that runs behind the ovens and looks down on them but as of now I don't see a way we can get to that trail without going across the private land. From looking at the map it looks as though you would have to put your foot in one way or another onto the private parcel so we will just stand off in the shade of the trees for lunch. We will be just east of the private parcel.

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:21 pm 
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If you have not gotten your State Land Permit there is still time to get it. Go here http://www.land.state.az.us/programs/natural/recreation_permit.htm

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:23 pm 
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Neatus wrote:
Okay let me restate this. I will not be leading the club on to the Coke Ovens property(which is private property). I will take you down the hill to the wash that sits below the ovens. I hope this is clear. Due to us running the trail as a club it would reflect poorly on us to stop on the private land. If you want a closer look at the ovens I believe there is a trail that runs behind the ovens and looks down on them but as of now I don't see a way we can get to that trail without going across the private land. From looking at the map it looks as though you would have to put your foot in one way or another onto the private parcel so we will just stand off in the shade of the trees for lunch. We will be just east of the private parcel.

Thanks for clearing that up Ernie. It's an unpopular decision not to visit the Ovens as so many others do... but the right one never the less. As you said, it would "reflect poorly" on us as a club if we knowingly ventured onto private property, especially if we know it's posted.

Just so everybody knows... there has been some confusion and controversy as to the status of the Coke Ovens over the past few years.

About six weeks ago I began to look for the answer to confirm if they were open or closed to the public. What I found out was... they were closed by the owner due to on going vandalism. At one point the two trails leading up to them were posted and a dirt berms built. People have since torn down the signs and leveled the berms to continue to gain access anyway. I verified all this with the Tucson BLM Office. They confirmed that the area is on private property, and has in fact been posted "No Trespassing". They even show a no trespassing warning in red on the USGS topographical base map. Here is the map they provided me showing State Land, BLM Land and private property in the area of the Coke Oven (I darkened the boundary lines so it would be easier to see on a computer monitor)....

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I hope everyone respects and understands Ernie's decision not to lead the group up to the Coke Ovens. We have the unconcerned and uncaring yahoos who continue to trash our lands to thank for their closure.

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 Post subject: Re: PERMITS
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:23 pm 
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I am very sorry to be slow to give a response being an officer and all but I do have some lame excuses.
My view is for the "posture" of the club and is correctness and courtesy to do the right thing, not to violate posted/recorded trespass rules and insist all who are part of an offical Az LOST JEEPS run be/do the same. We are a prestigious club with rankings and importance levels rivaling other long established Jeep clubs in Az and as such we will behave accordingly within the law/rules and leave an impact of "what a great bunch of guys that came through here"... I agree with AZKJ and Neatus as we have to respect private property. practice Tread Lightly, but also have a good time as a group.

NOTE: With that I will bring copies of a new "Hold Harmless" document to all to sign and I will give copies to Neatus. This is the sanctioned wording/format condusive to the 4WD Association so we may be covered by Association Insurance and it states everyone must behave by having thier own Auto insurance, all needed land use permits, to follow the land use rules, etc.

Lame excuse # 1: STUPID WORK!. I will miss all the runs :furious: except for Sunday but I will be there for a few hours on Friday. I will return Saturday nite for dinner 8)
Lame excuse # 2: I was working on my Liberty getting ready -installed a new driveshaft and installed NEW RAILS!!

See you all at FITS V!!

Roland

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