The History of Lifts that have been installed on the Liberty have been accomplished thru "trial and error". Not all have worked properly but you have to remember that this is a new Jeep and will have growing pains. After a year or so, there are a few options available to KJ Owners that seem to work. Each one has different characteristics by the nature of their design. None of them are a breeze to install!
Full Puc
Basically the first lifts made for the KJ were full puc lifts. They come in 1.5" to 2.5" pucs. The full 2.5" pucs made the ride stiffer to much stiffer than stock. Stiffer with an IFS system is not always bad...it can make the vehicle corner flatter...it can also make the ride so harsh you can not stand it. If you add taller tires with a little lower air pressure setting than stock, you can get an acceptable ride. It varies with each KJ and KJ Owner. This system does affect wheel travel by lessening the range.
The newer Daystar Puc kits come with new stem cushions for the top of the strut extension that help smooth out the ride. It has a replacement top plate that allows for more room within the strut than before ( it seems like it mounts the strut insert lower by 1/4" ). This gives a smoother ride and some more travel than the old "Puc Only" kit. Also the New Improved DayStar kit uses 2" pucs in the front that still net 2.5" of lift so it is not as harsh IMHO.
***You also take out one stock "spring isolator" during the install so that gives a little more room...about .25"***
***There is also a 1.5" DayStar puc lift kit that seems to work with no problems***
Combination Puc/Spacer
Next are the combination lifts. They all use a solid puc in the rear ( 2"-2.5" ). In the front they use a smaller internal strut puc ( 1.125"-1.5" ) with a small spacer on top ( .4"-.5" ). These tend to tighten up the ride less than a "full puc system" and offer varying amounts of lift ( 2"-2.5" ). A little less harsh ride that a Full Puc.
Full Spacer Front/Puc Rear
Then there are the lifts that rely on a top mount spacer up front with a "full puc" in the rear. Because of the inherent geometry of IFS. a 1.5"-1.6" spacer up front will net about 2.25"-2.5" of lift. This system tends to keep the ride quality close to stock when it comes to spring rates although I believe that it does tighten up just a little.
Spring Lifts
Spring Lifts are now being developed by a few companies that will replace the stock springs with longer or higher rate springs to gain lift. There are supposed to be some available for order at this time.
Coilover Lift
There is also a guy in California that has made a coilover for the front that is adjustable from 1.5" to 3" of lift and has custom shocks. He also has adjustable spring perches in the rear to level out the Jeep Liberty. There is not enough info at this time to really comment on his system...until he sends me one to try out ( Hint ).
Concerns
One of the major concerns when lifting an IFS vehicle are the CV Joint Angles. It is the general feeling thru experience that a 2"-2.5" lift is pratical for the KJ. Lifted, the CV Joint Shafts are just barely at an upward angle at rest...not binding but they will operate at a different angle than stock.
Also some lifts have caused the Upper Ball Joints to come in contact with the front strut springs...this happens most often on the Full Top Spacer type with the larger spacers on top of the strut. It does also happen on the puc lifts also. A good alignment sometimes alleviates this concern...some of us live with the occasional clunk when off-road.
Lastly, strut and shock length are a concern with a lifted KJ. As of right now, there are no longer front struts available for the KJ, so any lift will take out a little of your front suspension travel. There are no real problems in the rear if you install longer shocks to compensate for the lift that you added. Supposedly Koni is supposed to have a slightly longer front strut in the works...don't know ETA of this.
One other idea is to put on a lift of less than 2.5". RevTek has a combination lift that gives 2" of lift and DayStar has a set of pucs for 2" and 1.5" lifts. Less extreme than the 2.5" lift but still very useful.
Summary
There are a few options out there to choose from that will do a good job. They all have their advantages and disadvantages depending on "your point of view". It is difficult to say which lift is best for any particular individual or KJ. It will be dependent on the intended use of your Liberty...ie. off-road, on-road, highway usage, towing, ect. There is also the option of waiting a little longer to see what will becoming available in the near future. That being said, there are good lifts out there than can be purchased to enhance your KJ's ability to off-road, add larger more aggressive tires or improve the looks.
There is also not a magic combination that will guarantee a perfect fit of a specific tire size. Too many factors come into play when fitting taller/wider tires to any vehicle. Clearance problems and their degree of severity will vary from vehicle to vehicle. Changing to aftermarket wheels with a different backspacing/width compounds the ability to suggest which tires will fit. The larger the tire, smaller the backspacing ( pushes the wheel and tire out ), wider the rims, weight of the KJ and amount of the lift will all affect the tire size that will fit. It is not a "black and white" area, but rather grey.
Pricing varies so much that it is better for you to do an internet search and then call the distributor to get their take on the particular lift in question. Listed below are the dealers that most people on this forum have used at least once or twice. Always check to see if your lift is in stock or find out the waiting period to be expected...multiply that by 4 to get a realistic delivery date...kinda kiddin' but sorta' serious.
www.CarolinaRockShop.com - L.O.S.T. Supporter...Andy...sells and installs anything...also custom work
www.BoulderBars.com - L.O.S.T. Supporter...Quinn...sells and installs anything...also custom work
www.rustysoffroad.com...Rusty...Full Puc, OTT Style and Spring Lift with front struts and rear shocks...sells and installs
www.rockyroadoutfitters.com...Glenn...Full puc, OTT Spacer and Combo lifts...sells and installs
www.revtek.com combo lift with top spacer and internal pucs
www.ironmansuspensions.com...Seth spring replacements
www.skyjacker.com 2.5" spring lift w/ front struts and rear shocks
Also OME ( Old Man Emu in Australia ) and ARB in Australia are supposed to have new lifts out that gain lift from longer spring and front struts and rear shocks...Skyjacker is also supposed to have something ready soon...all by the fall of 2003.
There are other sites and 4 Wheel Drive Stores that also sell these same lifts. The links above seem to have the best prices and you don't have to pay sales tax in most instances.
A Final Word of Caution
No one is completely sure how and to what extent adding a lift and larger tires will affect your warranty. Anytime you modify a vehicle from its original stock configuration, you risk negating all or part of your warranty. A lift could easily be used by a dealer to void your warranty on the drivetrain/transmission and suspension components. This includes but is not limited to the CV Joints, Front and Rear Differentials, Rear Axles Shafts and Seals, ect...
This being said, more than a few dealers in different parts of the country install lifts and larger tires and sell them on thier lots. A couple numbers that were being thrown around as being "warranty safe" were 2" of lift and tires two sizes larger than the largest stock size available( 245/70/16 and 255/70/16 would be the two larger sizes ). The dealer that I purchased my KJ from gave me the same parameters as a "warranty safe" lift/tire combo. Just remember that nothing like this is in writting so I think you lift and tire at your own risk.
Just like when you go 4Wheelin', you must be prepared to accept some risks of damage and breakage.
EXTRA: If you seach the 4x4 Forum you can read up on the "Cleavis Lift" that I came up with. It does not cost you anything but a little work. It allows for adjustment of the front lift a little more for tire fitment. Adjusting the cleavis mount down about .5" nets about 1.25" of additional lift.
FIX: If your Daystar Puc Lift causes the UpperBallJoint to contact your Strut Spring at Full Droop ( when you suspension is unloaded ) you might hear a "clunk". This usually happens after you hit a significant dip in the road, ect. There is a pretty easy FIX. First, jack up the front of your KJ until both front wheels are off the ground. Next, make sure your KJ is supported safely on jackstands. Then look to see if the boots of your UpperBallJoint touch the Strut Spring. If they do, look just below the UBJ and see where the Steering Knuckle "bumP" touches the Daystar Puc. Mark that spot on both sides of your front struts. To FIX the problem, find some rubber, poly or other suitable shock absorbing material and build up that area about 1/2 of an inch. This will cause the "bumP' of the streering knuckle to make contact with your homemade bumPstoP before the UBJ makes contact with the Strut Spring. You can cut strips and then use a large hose clamp to secure it to the DayStar Puc. It will only need to be long enough to attach with the clamp at the bottom of your puc and extend up about another 1" to the spot you marked. If it is too long, your homemade bumPstoP will contact the UBJ...probably won't hurt it but I would trim it shorter until only the steering knuckle makes contact with the homemade bumPstoP. Voila...the "clunk" should be gone.
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Hey Wally alius Darby etc.
1.Thanks for your reply - I had visited your excellent summary of the various lifts before. Just wondered outloud if anyone has actually experienced the 'wrath of DC' in terms of warranty coverage when lifted. 14 replies sofar but :
Haven't seen or heard about this yet - presumably everybody is still speculating.. ....
2.Since you evidently have the most experience with the lifts. I was impressed with the clevis lift - quite a find!
Anyway what I wondered before about is this: why does the OTT need 8 bolts, why not bang out the factory bolts and replace these with 4 longer all the way thru bolts. I asked Glenn but he sort of either missed my question or preferred to ignore it. Is it just my imagination that this would simplify the install or what?
Also this way strength of the construction does not rely on the strength and/or quality of the welded tube spacer. Alternatively the design of the OTT could evolve in 2 plates with 4 small tubes (corresponding with the bolt holes). This would in turn open the door to a simple 2" OTT-lift - which
would appeal to the soft core members and those that fear the warranty or lack thereof. (I could be one of these).
I appreciate your valued opinion.
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You need 8 bolts per side because you need to secure the strut to the spacer first. Then you need to secure the spacer to the un***** of the KJ. A single longer bolt running from the strut top thru the ott spacer and attached at the top would cut the hardware down to 4 long bolts but would compromise the strength of the unit. The bolts would become the weak link ( flex, ect. ). You could have the bolts run thru a channel for added strength but it would not allow for small variences that occur in vehicles, welding plates, minor strut differences, ect. I hope this is what you were looking for.
Now if you made a solid spacer that sat on top it would work but it would be very heavy and would have to be "spot on".
02 Sahara Edition KJ
Best Mods:Powertrax No Slip Locker, Maxxis Buckshot Mudders...32s..., Armor
JU ID=Liberty-4-All.......KJJeep ID=DarbyWalters
I got your Grocery Getter Hangin'
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Thanks DW,
At the risk of boring the subject to death, consider the following: The factory uses 4 bolts and in their case the strength is not compromised. I agree with you that a solid chunk of steel would be extreme in terms of weight and that fabrication and drilling etc. has to be precise. Therefore I suggested 4 pieces of steel pipe (i.e 1 per bolt) sandwiched/welded between 2 plates - this way no flex. The pipe would be something like 1/2" H.D. gas pipe. This would require only 4 bolts which would be only slightly longer than the OEM's. I would guess this to be just as strong and reliable as Glenn's solution.
In any case since this is not available I am more and more leaning towards the 2.5 OTT.
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True that the factory uses 4 bolts but they do not span a large distance relatively. The distance between the bolt head and nut when tight is small ( probably less than .5" ). If you go with bolts thru tubes the distance becomes much greater ( probably over 2.5" ). The other problem would be the tolerances...even with the OTT spacers now available you have to coax the studs ( knock around a little ) to get a fit. I would rather have 8 tight ( close distance ) fittings than 4 stretched ( greater distance ) fittings. The "clamping forces" will be much stronger. I am not saying it could not be done safely...just will be more exacting to do.
02 Sahara Edition KJ
Best Mods:Powertrax No Slip Locker, Maxxis Buckshot Mudders...32s..., Armor
JU ID=Liberty-4-All.......KJJeep ID=DarbyWalters
I got your Grocery Getter Hangin'
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I recently adjusted the strut position in the lower mounting bracket/clamp (i.e. the clevis lift).
Raising the strut approx. 5/8" (.625) resulted in a lift of
1 11/16" (1.687). Torqued the clamping cap-screw bolt to 100 ft-lbs. Took about 3 hours.
BTW - AutoZone lets you borrow tools at no charge as long as you bring them back undamaged.
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On "fixing" my PUC lift. I've got the original Daystar all puc lift on all four corners. It was only recently that I realized that the front isn't SUPPOSED to be higher than the back ....
Anyway, when Rusty came out with the original 2.5" OTT spacer, he sent me a set. But then, after a number of folks had problems, I waited. Eventually, Rusty sent me the chopped down, 1.65" OTT spacer lift for the front. Last week, I finally had the $$$ saved to get one installed and I made an appointment with my local 4WheelParts store (who installed the orginal lift a year ago).
Let's just say I was a wee bit dissapointed when I went to pick it up and they told me they couldn't get EITHER spacer set to fit. The 2.5" spacers caused impact to the CV boots. The 1.65 " spacers were such that they could not get the bolts installed (in a manner with which they were comfortable).
My only complaint against the puc lift has been that the front springs are constantly "pre-loaded" such that hitting a RR track of speed bump can really jar the vehicle. Other than that, I like the stiffer ride.
So. When will the spring and/or coil over solutions be out? Did anyone ever get any sizes for whatever Old Man Emu (ARB) is working on?
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On the 1.65" spacer you have to run the nuts on the bolts and then cut the ends off...two threads fron the top or so and the untreaded part at the top. When you run the nuts back off the cut down bolts, they ( the nuts ) clean up the threads. I hope you mean that the full 2.5" OTT was hitting the UBJ...if it was hitting the CV Boots, they had the cleavis on 180 degrees backwards ( most likely ).
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I have learned quite a bit about suspension truths on this web site and on JU. My electrical design background does not always help in the suspension department, so ..
I got two more questions before the year is out:
1. How does DC accomplish the lowering? Different spring rate or length, is the clevis different?
2. How is droop or rise affected by the ott spacer, is the total up and down travel of the wheel less than stock or is it completely unaltered?
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According to a DC press release back in April '02, they started using shorter springs & jounce bumpers.
The "clevis" is the lower mounting bracket for the front struts. It holds about 1.5" of the bottom of the strut. It (the strut)can be adjusted/raised some without a major dis-assembly effort being involved...although it does take about 2-3 hours to do both sides.
Don't know much about the OTT spacers, others here can probably answer....... All I do know is that there are several different types/styles out there. Rustys sells the "riser" spacer plates for $28.00 per pair (at least thats what I was quoted). RRO will probably also sell just the spacer plates.
Be sure you know exactly what you are getting before placing an order.
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how about doin air bags (air springs rear)(air struts in frount) with costom perches
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Expensive way to get 2.5" of lift...the limits caused by the CVjoints would make it expensive to do and limited success. Most airbag systems for 4WDs are a supplement to an already working lift. For instance, Airock make a kit for TJs that requires you to have a 4-6" lift already installed...then you remove the coils and add the air bags...they give you a 2-3" adjustment factor.
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I have the OME coil lift from ARB. (I live in Australia). The lift is fantastic, greatly improves on existing suspension but it is not high enough. It only gives you 40mm (1.5") of lift for a KJ dated after mid 2002.(After they lowered it). With a lift like this, you still cant' fit much more than standard tyre. Unfortunatley we dont have the huge option for puc and spacer lifts you have, in fact we have none. I was interested in this "Clevis" lift that is talked about. If it is possible to combine it with the OME lift it may be a huge improvement.
Could someone point the way to a website detailing the Clevis lift?
PS. If you go for the OME lift, make sure you get the HARD springs. Ride quality suffers slightly but you get less settle and ultimately a higher ride.
Walker
What's the word on the OME suspension? i am seriosly considering going that way w/my suspension but had hoped to hear results from someone who's already done it. What differences have you noticed and how has it improved your capabilities? Have there been any side affects?
Also, have you attempted combining any additional lift w/this as yet? i too had wondered about that as the OME upgrade only gives 1.5" of lift.
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The OME lift is a really good option and improves the driving quality of the KJ tremendously. The lift does however not do that much for ground clearance at the front end (rear is fine). I had a 12mm spacer fitted to the front yesterday and wow! The vehicle has a perfectly level stace with enough front clearance. The total lift at the front is now two inches.
The most significant thing about this system I now have is the improved ride quality (softer), cornering stability and load capability and then the looks to go with it. I do have pictures if anyone is interested.
San Antonio, Texas
02 Sahara Edition KJ
Best Mods:Powertrax No Slip Locker... Maxxis Buckshot Mudders...32s..., Armor...Trailready Bumpers with Warn 8000i...Garmin Street Pilot III...Cobra 75WXXT
JU ID=Liberty-4-All.......KJJeep ID=DarbyWalters
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