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 Post subject: Extending Your Breathers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:26 pm 
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EDIT: UPDATED WITH PICS!!
I'm going to finally practice what I preach, and extend my breathers. I've been compiling the data and here's what I have so far:

I finally got around to extending my breather tubes. I'm getting ready for the Jeep Jamboree in the Pine Barrens, NJ, and I've heard that it is VERY wet there. So, no time like the present to spend $15 in parts to save $$$$$ later!

There's a breather tube for each component. Front and rear differentials, transfer case, and in my case, auto tranny. The front diff tube comes up on the body just below the battery tray. VERY easy to get at. I brought it up to the master cylinder area.

The rear diff pokes right up through the driver's side of the rear and goes up about a foot. I brought it all the way up to the gas filler tube area.

The transfer case breather comes up along the auto tranny's dipstick tube. I'm extending that to the master cylinder area, even though it's pretty darn high already.

And finally, the controversial tranny breather. I was told by some that the breather is impossible to access with the tranny still in the jeep, and it doesn't go up high enough for most water crossings. Maybe that was the case in 2002, but in 2003, it's located on the engine block, just behind the driver's side head. you can't see it, but you can easily get at it. The engine ground strap is also mounted here, so just follow that from the fire wall down. This will be extended to the master cylinder area as well (once I buy more 5/16" fuel line because I ran out!

This is EASY to do. NO EXCUSE NOT TO DO THIS!

Here are the pics:

Front Diff:
Image

Take a flat head screwdriver and just pop this bracket off of the bolt under the battery tray area. This round bracket makes it easy to zip-tie the breather in place later.
Image
Image

Rear Diff:
Image
NOTE THE CLIP JUST ABOVE MY FINGERS. I pulled the stock clip off with the tube and used it on the Kilby Tank skid to keep the tube away from the springs, and to also allow enough slack for the rear axle to flex without pulling the tube loose.

Image

Image

Image

Diff Breather along tranny fill tube:
Image

EDIT: UPDATE FROM GARRY:

A KJ friend of ours just had his breathers extended while the KJ was in the shop. He had a GREAT idea that I promised to share here.

He extended the breathers all the way to the airbox. First he merged the lines, then ran only one tube into the box and sealed it up nice and tight. I hope to see it next month and will take pics. I assume they drilled a small hole and then siliconed around it when done.

His theory is that when he gets a snorkel, he'll be MUCH more prepared for the wet stuff.

Oh, and the mechanic used a part available for Marine applications for the end of the hose. It's some sort of end that greatly reduces the likelihood of water going down the tube, even if submerged for a short time. I'm going to check that out too!

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Last edited by AdamIsAdam on Tue May 02, 2006 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:04 pm 
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SFA doesn't snap at the ball joint
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Just a tip, the Tcase breather is high enough, and sinse there is no hose on the tranny breather (just sticks out the side) You can get a tcase breather assembly (hose and all) for $8 at the parts department. I ran mine to the dip stick with the t-case one. If your diff gets hot as mine has with the locker, you may want to get an oil reclaimer for the end of the rear diff breather. The GC guys have done this often. The rear breather goes up high next to the fuel tank skid. Only ones I extended was my tranny after the flood :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:40 pm 
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Ted (that's right, right?),
You've always said there's no breather tube on the tranny and that you can't get at it without dropping the tranny, but someone else pointed out where the tranny breather goes up to and on mine, at least, it's there. That is, up to the rear of the block, just under the driver's side head.

Is it possible that your breather was omitted at the factory in error or something? Which is also why you actually got it flooded in the water in the first place?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:03 pm 
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SFA doesn't snap at the ball joint
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That has always been my claim... Jeep would not even honor it though since I was deeper than 20"

Also the 42RLE may have a different breather location as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:32 am 
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So, has anyone with an 02 found their trans breather yet? I looked in that spot and could not find it but i was looking from the top. I will have to take another look and see if I can see it from below.

Thanks for the pictures, so far i have found the rear diff and front diff. Havent looked for the transfer case yet. I am most concerned about the trans thought...

-Nick

bye the way adam, where is that last picture taken from?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:43 am 
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What about the manual tranny is there a breather for that?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:53 am 
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That last pic is taken from above the tranny dipstick tube. If you look closely, I wrote in and labeled stuff but did it very tiny in error.

so it's a birds eye view looking down along the tranny filler tube.

As for the tranny breather, you can't see it but it's easy to feel. Get up on top of the engine and slide your hand down. I threw my camera in there but still couldn't capture it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:10 am 
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GPR65 wrote:
What about the manual tranny is there a breather for that?
Chris


I second that. I'm paranoid that I'll be crossing a stream and need to clutch and the tranny will just drink.

Great writeup! Are these all the breathers that there are down there? Front Diff, Rear Diff, Transfer Case, and Transmission?

Makes more sense to move those breathers up to high ground than to get a snorkel - the normal air intake is already plenty high enough for me, it's the other stuff that worries me.

Are there any performance hits making those air intakes longer? Have you noticed it being sluggish at all?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:17 pm 
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Let's see if I can recall and reply to all the questions:

- yes, there's a breather for the manual tranny. I don't know where. I'll look in my manual to see if it says it. Check in the same location as the auto models.
(oh, when in water with a manual tranny, DO NOT CLUTCH AT ALL! Stall it and restart in gear if necessary, but don't clutch or you'll take on water and render the clutch useless. Or at least that's what I've been told.)

- venting won't affect performance. No worries there.

- I agree about the snorkel thing. our airboxes are high. Water going in would have to pass through the filter, then fill up the entire box (which has small drain holes on the bottom) and THEN it would be sucked into the motor. Yes, if you submerge below the hood line for more than a few seconds, you're screwed. But if you're in below the hood, and I mean IN and not just splashing water onto the hood, you're screwed for a lot of reasons!

- I think I got them all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:35 pm 
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Thanks Adam! Now i have a weekend project!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:46 pm 
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AdamIsAdam wrote:
Let's see if I can recall and reply to all the questions:

- yes, there's a breather for the manual tranny. I don't know where. I'll look in my manual to see if it says it. Check in the same location as the auto models.


I'll have to take a look the next time I'm under there. I wonder if there's an additional breather for the clutch? I'll look in the manual as well, I bet it says it somewhere.

Quote:
(oh, when in water with a manual tranny, DO NOT CLUTCH AT ALL! Stall it and restart in gear if necessary, but don't clutch or you'll take on water and render the clutch useless. Or at least that's what I've been told.)


That's what I've heard, too, and exactly what I'm paranoid about. I hook my left foot under the seat or under the clutch pedal so I don't hit it out of habit. I wonder if restarting it underwater would also be bad (but it's a good thing they have that clutch interlock disabled).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 3:00 pm 
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No breather for clutch.

You are not supposed to slip the clutch to get over rocks. Just idle and starter. That's WHY they have the starter enabled in 4LO.

But I wonder if the starter motor would be unhappy about being operated while under water. hmm

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:31 pm 
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AdamIsAdam wrote:
No breather for clutch.

You are not supposed to slip the clutch to get over rocks. Just idle and starter. That's WHY they have the starter enabled in 4LO.


I don't use the clutch for rocks, I just use it to change gears. It actually doesn't make sense to use the clutch for anything low speed since putting in the clutch generally makes you move faster instead of slower because of the low gearing.

Well, I know you're not supposed to use the clutch when crossing, but if it's a long crossing, there's a reasonable chance that 1st gear might be too slow (1st gear is REALLY slow, like, too slow even for a hill descent). Alternatively, if I were to start in 2nd or 3rd, I could potentially want to change down to 1st (and while you can start in gear with no clutch, you can't change gears with no clutch too easily).

Not that I would actually do either of those, but I figured while I was moving breathers it would make sense to get everything that could be affected by the water even though I would still make a conscious effort not to use the clutch.

Quote:
But I wonder if the starter motor would be unhappy about being operated while under water. hmm


I've heard in a few places that if you stall out in the water, just let it die and get it pulled out and clean the water out of everything before trying to start it to prevent damage. That could just be advice for automatic transmission, but maybe it's for the electrical components, too.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:52 pm 
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If you stall while in water because you took in water through the intake, you don't start it or you'll waste the motor. If you obviously stalled becasue you were crawling over a rock and bucked back to a stall, you're fine.

As for shifting without using the clutch, that's actually a usefull skill to practice. When you get good at it, you can do so without any grinding. I used to do this routinely without problems. You've just got to be your own syncromesh.

Now, I've never done this off road with such low gearing! That would make it tough to catch the gear as the revs match up since the window to do so is much smaller. If this doesn't make sense, try it (on the street) and you'll understand. Start off with the higher gears, like your 3-4 shift. You want to apply pressure on the shifter as you lift off the gas to get it out of 3rd, then apply pressure on the shifter (and no gas) as the RPM's drop. When the gears and revs match, it will slip right in to 4th. It gets harder the lower gear you try for . When your'e good, you can downshift this way by blipping your throttle. And when you're really good, maybe you can do it off road while under 7' of water! :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:16 pm 
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As for shifting without using the clutch, that's actually a usefull skill to practice. When you get good at it, you can do so without any grinding. I used to do this routinely without problems. You've just got to be your own syncromesh.


I used to do that all the time on my old toyota, but that was because the clutch was dead and even when I pushed it to the floor it wouldn't disengage! I found that you really only get one chance to get in gear, after that the gear is still spinning and it will just grind. I've only tried it a few times in the jeep, but it's a little harder to handle the missed-gear-grind when it's in an expensive vehicle :-P

Quote:
Now, I've never done this off road with such low gearing! That would make it tough to catch the gear as the revs match up since the window to do so is much smaller. If this doesn't make sense, try it (on the street) and you'll understand. Start off with the higher gears, like your 3-4 shift. You want to apply pressure on the shifter as you lift off the gas to get it out of 3rd, then apply pressure on the shifter (and no gas) as the RPM's drop. When the gears and revs match, it will slip right in to 4th. It gets harder the lower gear you try for . When your'e good, you can downshift this way by blipping your throttle. And when you're really good, maybe you can do it off road while under 7' of water! :wink:


Yup, I've done it on the street before, but haven't tried it in 4wd. Probably not worth it for the damage it could cause. The one problem is that you can only apply pressure for so long before it will "go in" even though it's not at the right speed. It hits the gear and spins it up and then you can't go in at all. I had exciting times in the old toy, I'd go from first to second, and if second grinded, I'd skip to third. I must have been such a dangerous person to find on the road, haha!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:27 am 
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AdamIsAdam wrote:
If you stall while in water because you took in water through the intake, you don't start it or you'll waste the motor. If you obviously stalled becasue you were crawling over a rock and bucked back to a stall, you're fine.

As for shifting without using the clutch, that's actually a usefull skill to practice. When you get good at it, you can do so without any grinding. I used to do this routinely without problems. You've just got to be your own syncromesh.

Now, I've never done this off road with such low gearing! That would make it tough to catch the gear as the revs match up since the window to do so is much smaller. If this doesn't make sense, try it (on the street) and you'll understand. Start off with the higher gears, like your 3-4 shift. You want to apply pressure on the shifter as you lift off the gas to get it out of 3rd, then apply pressure on the shifter (and no gas) as the RPM's drop. When the gears and revs match, it will slip right in to 4th. It gets harder the lower gear you try for . When your'e good, you can downshift this way by blipping your throttle. And when you're really good, maybe you can do it off road while under 7' of water! :wink:


When I was in college, I drove a 6 Speed Freightliner box truck and some of the trucks clutches were so tight because of people resting their foot on there while crusing, so it was just easier to shift w/o the clutch up and down. I only used the clutch to start out in first. Much easier in diesels than in gassers. I've never done it off road, but it is very useful to know.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:07 am 
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Guyute1210 wrote:
When I was in college, I drove a 6 Speed Freightliner box truck and some of the trucks clutches were so tight because of people resting their foot on there while crusing, so it was just easier to shift w/o the clutch up and down. I only used the clutch to start out in first. Much easier in diesels than in gassers. I've never done it off road, but it is very useful to know.


crap, is that what's going to happen to my clutch? There's no dead pedal or anywhere to rest my foot, so I find myself sitting it on the pedal way too often.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:13 pm 
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As for shifting without using the clutch, that's actually a usefull skill to practice.


I learned this skill out of necessity in a 1979 Honda that had over 300k miles on it. Ah...the salad days!!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Makes more sense to move those breathers up to high ground than to get a snorkel


I've posted this elsewhere but.........snorkles are not just for getting the intake above the waterline. When you're in a caravan in sandy/dusty places a snorkle also gets your intake up where the air is cooler and cleaner.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:14 pm 
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c'mon, how much difference does a few feet make for dust in a caravan? It's rising more and more with each passing vehicle. That's what air cleaners are for. :wink:

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