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4WD Issues/Noises
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=28112		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kugellager [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  4WD Issues/Noises
I posted this a few weeks back in the KJ 4x4 forum because I thought it would get more exposure.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... highlight=

But pretty much no one who is big into wheeling looked at it. We have some of the best KJ experts here so I thought I would link it.

I'm still having the clunking noise in 4wd(hi or lo) that keeps pace with the wheel speed. Shifting gears makes little difference so I'm pretty sure it is CV or possibly diff related. I notice it most and loudest between 20mph and 30mph and/or when under load such as when I lean into the gas going up a hill or accelerating. Sound all but disappears when I reach about 40mph. It is only heard in 4wd not in 2wd and comes from up front...possibly toward the passenger side.

Took it by Crawler Tech to have Josh have a look...of course it virtually disappeared when he drove it and I was sitting in the passenger seat... He shook various suspension parts and found nothing obviously loose. Could me sitting in the passenger seat make a difference by changing the geometry of the suspension due to the weight?

I also notice a pull to the right in 4wd but not in 2wd. Not sure if I noticed this before.

Just a note: I now have ARBs installed as well...been a few months since installation...

John
];')
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Sounds almost like the symptoms I am having with the 4" (actually 5.5")lift. When in 4wd, I get a grinding sound when I accelerate and drive coming from the CV's.At this point, I am not taking it up to high speeds. My high angle is the definite cause though. You have the Frankie so not sure why yours is causing problems unless you lost all of your CV grease.
Author:  Fulltimer [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:49 am ]
Post subject: 
If the noise is loud enough maybe a recording would help. You didn't mention the transfer case. The pulling could also be a separate problem. Does the frequency of the noise increase with speed, speeding up causing the noise to pulsate faster? Or is it one long noise?

Terry
Author:  USAFCOP [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Now you mention a pull to the right in 4wd, is it all the time or only when you accelerate?
If it is torque steer, you may have a bad o-ring in the ARB that has allowed fluid to seep in and trap air thus actuating the locker. Or a bolt inside has come loose, and has allowed a shim to slip allowing the locker to engage. Does the sound stay if you lock the locker?
If so, I would say CV issue, maybe the retaining clip is worn, and the shaft is sliding in and out. If it is not there when locked, I would guess it is the locker, as when locked, the slop causing noise or the occasional lock up could be held in check as the unit is not locking and unlocking.
My front had a nicked o-ring (common install issue according to ARB Seth) and it would leak fluid out the solenoid on the compressor, and occasionally I had some noisde and it felt locked when off.
Hope this helped more than confused. Josh at Crawlertech may know more though. I got to get my axle gears and lockers up to him to set up... :twisted:
Author:  Kugellager [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am ]
Post subject: 
@Ted - There is a constant slight pull to the right that becomes stronger when I hit the accelerator under load. I haven't tried to engage/disengage the locker since I noticed the sound. There is still a lot of ice on my street...maybe I will give it a try after work. I have only tested the lockers once when I first had them installed to see if they worked...they did take some doing to disengage them that time...though I understand this is normal when they are new?

The sound changes with speed but is ONLY noticeable when in 4wd. The sound is coming from the front...NOT directly underneath the Jeep...so it can't be the transfer case.

John
];')
Author:  USAFCOP [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
John, slow disengaging of the ARB is not normal, they were installed too tight would be my guess on that. Since I have owned mine, the solenoid releases the air pressure as soon as I turn the switch off, and the locker is disengaged just as quick, whether I am moving or at a standstill.

One thing I will say is if you test them on Ice, do not do it while tires are spinning/slipping, Even if your speedo says you are going so fast, one wheel may be going faster, and it could damage the unit. That is the explanation I recieved when I needed my rear rebuilt due to the Banjo joint/bushing slipping out. I engaged it as I was spinning loosing traction going up an icy hill.
Author:  Kugellager [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Re: the slow(or not disengaging) It actually did not disengage rather than a slow disengagement. I should have clarified that better. It mentions it in the user manual somwehere. I followed their directions and drove it back and forth a couple of times in a straight line and it unlocked.

I will carefully try the lockers in 4wd when I get home this evening and see what happens. I'll definitely make sure the wheels are not spinning.

This is all frustrating since I don't believe these issues were present before I had the ARB's installed. Of course I only used 4wd on one run at China Wall and a quick run up Jones Pass In August. Between those periods I had the lockers installed and then no 4wd use until the recent snows.

I want everything to work right for next season as I intend to participate regularly this year.

John
];')
Author:  Kugellager [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok so my neighborhood is almost a complete sheet of ice and has lots of hills and some curves for testing things. I spent about 20 minutes driving around the neighborhood engaging and disengaging the ARB,s. They seem to work perfectly engaging and disengaging at will as long as the wheels were straight. There was no significant change in the clunking noise coming from the front. The noise appeared under acceleration when under load while going uphill or on flat areas regardless of whether or not the lockers were on or off.

On a positive note I also got a good lesson in driving with lockers and the effects they have on steering and the speed at which the steering wheel re-centers itself whe you let go...Definitely a good learning experience on locker dynamics.

It sounds more like it is CV related as Ted suggested. Question is - What to do about it. Have never heard it when in 2wd either under load or cornering as you would expect with a bad CV. Does that mean one of the CVs is going or is it some loading effect? When I was driving around with Josh the sound was almost nonexistant. However, when I left Crawler Tech the sound came back like before. Could the weight of me sitting in the passenger seat change the suspension geometry (I.E. passenger CV angle)enough to allow the CV to work better? I will have to test the noise with and without someone in the passenger seat. Anyone have an hour to kill some weeknight before the snow melts? - My Fiance'e works evenings.

John
];')
Author:  Weegie5 [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Kugellager wrote:
...I will have to test the noise with and without someone in the passenger seat. Anyone have an hour to kill some weeknight before the snow melts? - My Fiance'e works evenings.


Yeah, I can help you out in that dep't. I work in the Denver West complex, so I'm not too far from you. Let me know when would work for you. I'll be out of the office a couple days next week, just not yet sure when.
Author:  Fulltimer [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Bring it over here to Florida and I'll set in the seat for you! :lol: Good luck and I hope you find the problem.

Terry
Author:  Rush345 [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  This may be a stupid question????
Have you checked all your fluids, since I'm unemployed I have a lot of time on my hands and I'm in Lakewood. I don't claim to be a Master Mechanic but I have held a wrench in my hands once or twice. Let me know, I'm always willing to lend a hand or a wrench :D . PM me and I'll give address phone and all so we can get together.
David
Author:  USAFCOP [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
The CVs in the Lib would make more noise in 4WD if bad. If there is no power going to them, the noise possibly could not be heard, but if it gets louder when in 4wd, and sounds to be from one side, I would say CV. Remember, the typical CV axle vehicle is a front wheel drive car, thus the obvious signs we are all used to to diagnose a bad CV, always have power.
The KJ front does always have some power going to (just like all other jeeps) but only has the full power in a 4wd tcase selection. Thus would be why you would hear it occasionally in 2wd and bad in 4wd. Weight of another person in the passenger seat may affect it (might indicate passenger side) but I do not know how much, and besides, you may be tall, but you ain't no wide body that would cause great strain on the suspension.
If you do need CV shafts, let me know... I have a spare set with 5o miles on them that I won't be needing anymore.
Author:  Powdrdaze [ Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
How much do you want for the cvs?
Author:  USAFCOP [ Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I do not want to sell them individually, only as a pair. $500 for the set. They have been in my shed or garage since I pulled them (unless I was at MOAB then they were in the trailer) basically, they have been protected from the elements. They do have some surface rust on them, but the odo on the limited I pulled them from had only 35 miles. Looking at it, it looked like it fell off of the truck/train and landed on its butt and then top.
Author:  Powdrdaze [ Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
500 is a bit steep. I only need the passenger side. Thanx anyway. Found the whole assembly for $100 with warranty.
Author:  Kugellager [ Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm pretty sure I will need to replace the right CV and seal. I just took my monthly look under the front end and noticed what looked like to be front diff. fluid coming from around where the CV meets the diff.

DOH!

I will have to do that soon.

John
];')
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