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 Post subject: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:49 pm 
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The thread title is just a bit of tongue in cheek humor... I know we differ in opinion on a number of subjects, but I wanted to make sure to post this here... This saturday is the Trail Cleanup! For any of you not already committed to destroying some other trail, we'll be getting started around 9 AM and it'll run until the landowner's association meeting starts around 1:30. Anyone who wants to come help out, wheel a bit, drink some beers, whatever, please come on out! I don't know how many of you Colorado folk frequent the trails, but we see a ton of jeep traffic every summer, and this is our annual reclamation project. All kidding aside, there's always a ton of garbage to pick up and any and all help is greatly appreciated. Shoot me a PM if you want some more information.

Later!


Last edited by johnb on Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:25 pm 
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I wish I could John. I would really like that opportunity. :lol: I just can't make it this weekend,even though it would be worth the 16 hours on the road. If you could give me a little more advanced notice I would like to come out at help sometime.
Gary

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:13 am 
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[Where's JL. . . . . ? OK I'll do it]

Shouldn't this be in the Colorado regional forum?

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:13 pm 
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and you are???

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:33 pm 
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:ROTFL:

That's where I are. . .

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:07 pm 
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JL Rockies wrote:
and you are???


Umm, yeah...and how do you know we differ in opinion on the subject??? "Destroying some other trail"? Seriously...


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:19 pm 
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Skyjump136 wrote:
JL Rockies wrote:
and you are???


Umm, yeah...and how do you know we differ in opinion on the subject??? "Destroying some other trail"? Seriously...


So you're saying you agree with me that recreational jeeping is an irresponsible and mostly destructive use of our trail systems? That's pretty big of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:40 am 
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Hi :)

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:16 pm 
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I'll tear up your trails any day!

With this:
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:ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:20 pm 
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johnb wrote:
Skyjump136 wrote:
JL Rockies wrote:
and you are???


Umm, yeah...and how do you know we differ in opinion on the subject??? "Destroying some other trail"? Seriously...


So you're saying you agree with me that recreational jeeping is an irresponsible and mostly destructive use of our trail systems? That's pretty big of you.



Dude.... go away... seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:12 am 
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JL Rockies wrote:

Dude.... go away... seriously.


:ROTFL:

no wait... Seriously?

:ROTFL:

See? I was pretty sure we didn't agree about that. And here I thought this was a forum for Jeep owners... You guys ever thought of putting up a sister-site? Maybe "Weekend Warrior Special Team" or something...

I'm sorry if I as a full time off-road user don't share the same feelings about our trails as you folks who only like to come play around on the weekend. You see, when you all go back to your townhouses in Denver, we have to deal with the garbage and damage you leave behind. So I'll tell you what - I'll go away if you will. Deal?

:ROTFL:


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:34 pm 
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What do you know about COHVCO?

Why do you think its the Jeep people who leave behind all the trash? As far as I can tell, spending nearly every other day up Rampart during the summer (I'm not just a weekend warrior), its the campers who leave behind all the trash. It's usually food and drink trash which makes sense coming from campers. When I have food and drink in my Jeep or on my motorcycle and I finish it I take the trash with me. It's pretty easy, if you packed it in you can pack it out, or in other words, if you had room to bring it you have room to bring it back. I'm confident most on this board do the same. It's mostly the kind of people who aren't on the online forums such as this that are "trashy". Young kids fit that criteria as well as being apathetic to the whole situation to begin with, yet I know you're not preaching at your local high school which probably has a ton of 4x4 parked outside? A family with an RV and four quads do much more "damage" and leave behind more trash than any Jeeper yet I don't see you preaching on RVing.com. And you know how many RVs and tow-campers I see compared to Jeeps? Tons more. And of course they bring more people which equals more trash.

And damage? Anyone with a vehicle does "damage" to the terrain they cross. But since you proclaim yourself a "full-time" offroader, you are doing much more damage than anyone else :x
Good thing you're such an upright and outstanding citizen! You're really just making up for your own faults, it seems.

I KNOW about what's happening on the ground because I spend way too much time in the most popular offroad destination in Colorado. You seem to be ignoring the reality of the situation which is that the majority of the people on this site aren't the problem unless they also are trashy campers. Most of us are NOT trashy campers. That's why you're barking up the wrong tree and are being treated like it.

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:42 pm 
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RespectMyLibertay wrote:
What do you know about COHVCO?

Why do you think its the Jeep people who leave behind all the trash? As far as I can tell, spending nearly every other day up Rampart during the summer (I'm not just a weekend warrior), its the campers who leave behind all the trash. It's usually food and drink trash which makes sense coming from campers. When I have food and drink in my Jeep or on my motorcycle and I finish it I take the trash with me. It's pretty easy, if you packed it in you can pack it out, or in other words, if you had room to bring it you have room to bring it back. I'm confident most on this board do the same. It's mostly the kind of people who aren't on the online forums such as this that are "trashy". Young kids fit that criteria as well as being apathetic to the whole situation to begin with, yet I know you're not preaching at your local high school which probably has a ton of 4x4 parked outside? A family with an RV and four quads do much more "damage" and leave behind more trash than any Jeeper yet I don't see you preaching on RVing.com. And you know how many RVs and tow-campers I see compared to Jeeps? Tons more. And of course they bring more people which equals more trash.

And damage? Anyone with a vehicle does "damage" to the terrain they cross. But since you proclaim yourself a "full-time" offroader, you are doing much more damage than anyone else :x
Good thing you're such an upright and outstanding citizen! You're really just making up for your own faults, it seems.

I KNOW about what's happening on the ground because I spend way too much time in the most popular offroad destination in Colorado. You seem to be ignoring the reality of the situation which is that the majority of the people on this site aren't the problem unless they also are trashy campers. Most of us are NOT trashy campers. That's why you're barking up the wrong tree and are being treated like it.


COHVCO is a pretty good organization and I appreciate their work. There's not nearly enough of it given the number of OHV users who do not participate in such an organization. However, up where I am, we don't see too much of them and it's mostly us and USFS doing trail cleanup and maintenance. We have some issues with campers as well, although many of them also drive jeeps and I have no idea who is who. Really though, there are 4 "established" camp sites within 1/2 mile of my house and rarely is any garbage left at any of them. The issue is two fold - first, garbage left alongside the trails, and second, irresponsible and dangerous driving habits, ie excessive speed and failure to remain on the trail.

You're right that those of us who live off road do the most damage. That's why I'm responsible for road maintenance for the 7 or so miles of trail on my hill. That includes everything from garbage cleanup to plowing, grading, trenching, culvert installation and maintenance - you name it, I do it. I'm sure that's a part of why irresponsible jeeping/atving pisses me off so much - not the mention that people who drive 75 miles to come *&^^&* up my neighborhood are generally not appreciated anyway. I never said people shouldn't drive off road - but treating our trails like a woodsy amusement park that only exists for one's enjoyment from 7pm Friday until 4pm Sunday is irresponsible and destructive. That might apply to some more than others, and I never pointed out anyone in particular. And apparently I don't need to, since you all seem to take it real personal like whenever anyone says that a jeeper was the original owner of some piece of garbage left on the trail. Last I heard, a guity conscience needs no accuser.

Edit: Just wanted to add, after having done some more research into COHVCO. They could use a little more sugar and little less spice. If you really want to get things done, getting into personal battles with your local officials is not the way to do it. I also think I know why I never see these guys up here... This territory is not in question. Jeeps have full access up here and it's not really up for debate, so, no need to participate really, because as far as I can tell, they are a land use organization first, and anything else second. So, it's good to see people proactively involved in maintaining their activity's resources, but I think the first thing they are invested in is counteracting the negative image that's somewhat inherent to the activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:04 am 
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johnb wrote:
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
What do you know about COHVCO?

Why do you think its the Jeep people who leave behind all the trash? As far as I can tell, spending nearly every other day up Rampart during the summer (I'm not just a weekend warrior), its the campers who leave behind all the trash. It's usually food and drink trash which makes sense coming from campers. When I have food and drink in my Jeep or on my motorcycle and I finish it I take the trash with me. It's pretty easy, if you packed it in you can pack it out, or in other words, if you had room to bring it you have room to bring it back. I'm confident most on this board do the same. It's mostly the kind of people who aren't on the online forums such as this that are "trashy". Young kids fit that criteria as well as being apathetic to the whole situation to begin with, yet I know you're not preaching at your local high school which probably has a ton of 4x4 parked outside? A family with an RV and four quads do much more "damage" and leave behind more trash than any Jeeper yet I don't see you preaching on RVing.com. And you know how many RVs and tow-campers I see compared to Jeeps? Tons more. And of course they bring more people which equals more trash.

And damage? Anyone with a vehicle does "damage" to the terrain they cross. But since you proclaim yourself a "full-time" offroader, you are doing much more damage than anyone else :x
Good thing you're such an upright and outstanding citizen! You're really just making up for your own faults, it seems.

I KNOW about what's happening on the ground because I spend way too much time in the most popular offroad destination in Colorado. You seem to be ignoring the reality of the situation which is that the majority of the people on this site aren't the problem unless they also are trashy campers. Most of us are NOT trashy campers. That's why you're barking up the wrong tree and are being treated like it.


COHVCO is a pretty good organization and I appreciate their work. There's not nearly enough of it given the number of OHV users who do not participate in such an organization. However, up where I am, we don't see too much of them and it's mostly us and USFS doing trail cleanup and maintenance. We have some issues with campers as well, although many of them also drive jeeps and I have no idea who is who. Really though, there are 4 "established" camp sites within 1/2 mile of my house and rarely is any garbage left at any of them. The issue is two fold - first, garbage left alongside the trails, and second, irresponsible and dangerous driving habits, ie excessive speed and failure to remain on the trail.

You're right that those of us who live off road do the most damage. That's why I'm responsible for road maintenance for the 7 or so miles of trail on my hill. That includes everything from garbage cleanup to plowing, grading, trenching, culvert installation and maintenance - you name it, I do it. I'm sure that's a part of why irresponsible jeeping/atving pisses me off so much - not the mention that people who drive 75 miles to come *&^^&* up my neighborhood are generally not appreciated anyway. I never said people shouldn't drive off road - but treating our trails like a woodsy amusement park that only exists for one's enjoyment from 7pm Friday until 4pm Sunday is irresponsible and destructive. That might apply to some more than others, and I never pointed out anyone in particular. And apparently I don't need to, since you all seem to take it real personal like whenever anyone says that a jeeper was the original owner of some piece of garbage left on the trail. Last I heard, a guity conscience needs no accuser.

Edit: Just wanted to add, after having done some more research into COHVCO. They could use a little more sugar and little less spice. If you really want to get things done, getting into personal battles with your local officials is not the way to do it. I also think I know why I never see these guys up here... This territory is not in question. Jeeps have full access up here and it's not really up for debate, so, no need to participate really, because as far as I can tell, they are a land use organization first, and anything else second. So, it's good to see people proactively involved in maintaining their activity's resources, but I think the first thing they are invested in is counteracting the negative image that's somewhat inherent to the activity.


Call me goofy, but last I heard Jeeps weren't the only brand of off-road automobile? Thanks for the generalization. I agree there needs to be more done for the environment we use overall, but I really feel you're generalizing and targeting a specific group rather than off road enthusiasts overall. At least blame everyone if you're going to frag blame all over the place please!


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:30 am 
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Combat Truck Monkey wrote:
johnb wrote:
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
What do you know about COHVCO?

Why do you think its the Jeep people who leave behind all the trash? As far as I can tell, spending nearly every other day up Rampart during the summer (I'm not just a weekend warrior), its the campers who leave behind all the trash. It's usually food and drink trash which makes sense coming from campers. When I have food and drink in my Jeep or on my motorcycle and I finish it I take the trash with me. It's pretty easy, if you packed it in you can pack it out, or in other words, if you had room to bring it you have room to bring it back. I'm confident most on this board do the same. It's mostly the kind of people who aren't on the online forums such as this that are "trashy". Young kids fit that criteria as well as being apathetic to the whole situation to begin with, yet I know you're not preaching at your local high school which probably has a ton of 4x4 parked outside? A family with an RV and four quads do much more "damage" and leave behind more trash than any Jeeper yet I don't see you preaching on RVing.com. And you know how many RVs and tow-campers I see compared to Jeeps? Tons more. And of course they bring more people which equals more trash.

And damage? Anyone with a vehicle does "damage" to the terrain they cross. But since you proclaim yourself a "full-time" offroader, you are doing much more damage than anyone else :x
Good thing you're such an upright and outstanding citizen! You're really just making up for your own faults, it seems.

I KNOW about what's happening on the ground because I spend way too much time in the most popular offroad destination in Colorado. You seem to be ignoring the reality of the situation which is that the majority of the people on this site aren't the problem unless they also are trashy campers. Most of us are NOT trashy campers. That's why you're barking up the wrong tree and are being treated like it.


COHVCO is a pretty good organization and I appreciate their work. There's not nearly enough of it given the number of OHV users who do not participate in such an organization. However, up where I am, we don't see too much of them and it's mostly us and USFS doing trail cleanup and maintenance. We have some issues with campers as well, although many of them also drive jeeps and I have no idea who is who. Really though, there are 4 "established" camp sites within 1/2 mile of my house and rarely is any garbage left at any of them. The issue is two fold - first, garbage left alongside the trails, and second, irresponsible and dangerous driving habits, ie excessive speed and failure to remain on the trail.

You're right that those of us who live off road do the most damage. That's why I'm responsible for road maintenance for the 7 or so miles of trail on my hill. That includes everything from garbage cleanup to plowing, grading, trenching, culvert installation and maintenance - you name it, I do it. I'm sure that's a part of why irresponsible jeeping/atving pisses me off so much - not the mention that people who drive 75 miles to come *&^^&* up my neighborhood are generally not appreciated anyway. I never said people shouldn't drive off road - but treating our trails like a woodsy amusement park that only exists for one's enjoyment from 7pm Friday until 4pm Sunday is irresponsible and destructive. That might apply to some more than others, and I never pointed out anyone in particular. And apparently I don't need to, since you all seem to take it real personal like whenever anyone says that a jeeper was the original owner of some piece of garbage left on the trail. Last I heard, a guity conscience needs no accuser.

Edit: Just wanted to add, after having done some more research into COHVCO. They could use a little more sugar and little less spice. If you really want to get things done, getting into personal battles with your local officials is not the way to do it. I also think I know why I never see these guys up here... This territory is not in question. Jeeps have full access up here and it's not really up for debate, so, no need to participate really, because as far as I can tell, they are a land use organization first, and anything else second. So, it's good to see people proactively involved in maintaining their activity's resources, but I think the first thing they are invested in is counteracting the negative image that's somewhat inherent to the activity.


Call me goofy, but last I heard Jeeps weren't the only brand of off-road automobile? Thanks for the generalization. I agree there needs to be more done for the environment we use overall, but I really feel you're generalizing and targeting a specific group rather than off road enthusiasts overall. At least blame everyone if you're going to frag blame all over the place please!


You're right... It's not only jeeps. It's not even just cars, but also 4 wheelers and dirtbikes. Really, a cross section of the 4-wheeling community in general. In some areas that would also include sleds, but not so much in my neck of the woods.

You've piqued my curiosity here though... Do Jeepers specifically have a different record when it comes to trail behavior that is not only acknowledged by most Jeepers, but by other knowedgable people as well? Or do they percieve that they have a better record than other OHV users? That would not appear to be the case from looking at the COHVCO. Going through their photo album, it looks to be all dirt bikers. What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:13 am 
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You made it personal.
"Great opportunity to prove me wrong?"
Sounds like an accusation to me...and everyone else!
And have I ever been there? No. Does it even sound like a trail this LOST chapter has ever run? No, but correct me if I'm wrong.

With this sort of message and tone you'd be better off with a pistol at hip and megaphone pointed at the "perpetrators" in the act of trashing and damaging what you seem care about so much so that you want to go pushing the issue on others in a rather rude manner. I think the megaphone might be your thing :furious:

You could have posted a thread in all seriousness and gotten a much better response than your tongue-in-cheek humor which obviously didn't go over so well. But you probably knew that this is how it would be received and were being serious from the get go.

:ALONE:

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:59 am 
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RespectMyLibertay wrote:
You made it personal.
"Great opportunity to prove me wrong?"
Sounds like an accusation to me...and everyone else!
And have I ever been there? No. Does it even sound like a trail this LOST chapter has ever run? No, but correct me if I'm wrong.

With this sort of message and tone you'd be better off with a pistol at hip and megaphone pointed at the "perpetrators" in the act of trashing and damaging what you seem care about so much so that you want to go pushing the issue on others in a rather rude manner. I think the megaphone might be your thing :furious:

You could have posted a thread in all seriousness and gotten a much better response than your tongue-in-cheek humor which obviously didn't go over so well. But you probably knew that this is how it would be received and were being serious from the get go.

:ALONE:


Jeez you guys are touchy. Certainly, my original post is EXACTLY as though I were standing in front of you with a gun and a megaphone. Of all the forums I participate in, you guys are the most consistently butthurt.

Nevermind. Even if one of you did turn up to help, you'd probably complain about the sun and your blisters the whole time.


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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:01 pm 
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Ya im pretty sure that pesonally attacking us on this forum is not a good way to get get for your cause

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:14 pm 
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Coliniksi wrote:
Ya im pretty sure that pesonally attacking us on this forum is not a good way to get get for your cause


When have I personally attacked anyone, let alone you, whose username I've never even seen before? As I said in the original post - I know, from previous exchanges with other folks on this board, that we don't agree about what constitutes responsible trail use... That's okay with me. Okay as in I don't have a problem with it and thought it was something to poke fun at. It's apparently completely unacceptable to you guys and not at all funny. But you know what - my opinion is still my opinion, and if you'd rather not read it, go find another thread already.



:dizzy:


Last edited by johnb on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Great opportunity to prove me wrong coming this Saturday
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:19 pm 
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Didnt claim you had seen my username before. Just found it strange that you would go to a jeep forum and blame mainly us for trashing trails

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