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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:11 am 
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You would be much better with a catch can, Dean.
The best catch can is a small cyclone.
Inlet, tangential about 1/2 way up. The outlet in the middle at the top. Conical base with a drain at the base.
The inlet tube should be smaller than the outlet.
You probably know all that!

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:13 pm 
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Thank you layback40,

Thank you for this suggestion. Oddly enough, I've never considered this as a commercial product; I thought I'd have to build something. I'll search for a self-draining model and probably fashion a p-trap in the drain hose to block gasses coming from the wrong direction.

Does anyone suggest a specific brand and model for our engines?

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:48 pm 
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Your best solution is to add a ProVent that will remove 90% of the suspended liquids in the vapors coming out of the CCV puck.
As for piping, I fashioned a metal one out of 3/4" copper tubing and wrapping it with black insulated tape. I used silicone hose fitting to attach it at each end since silicone is impervious to heat and oil.
I like the ProVent 200 since it has a built in coalescing/centrifugal filter design along with a pressure regulator and safety valve to prevent any overpressure. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:26 pm 
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Thanks WWDiesel,

The Provent 200 filter looks good, and I like the top cap for removing the filter element. It also has a drain built into the bottom. Of the videos I watched, some said to avoid the smaller models, which the Provent 200 is not.

I suppose the idea of insulating the copper pipes is for personal burning protection and to avoid melting the coolant reservoir.

Anyway, thanks. I ordered one from Amazon; it should be here before April.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:14 pm 
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Just a note about a Catch Can... I noticed no one has talked about avoiding a run-away engine. Ie: having so much blow-by going to the intake that the excessive oil vapor fuels the engine. A Catch Can might be able to avoid that circumstance if it is capable of that much volume.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 6:28 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Just a note about a Catch Can... I noticed no one has talked about avoiding a run-away engine. Ie: having so much blow-by going to the intake that the excessive oil vapor fuels the engine. A Catch Can might be able to avoid that circumstance if it is capable of that much volume.

Dean.

Run-away is seen sometimes with Older Mercedes diesels. Only occurs with the turbo ones.
I have experienced it with an Isuzu turbo diesel. Turned it off, in top gear, foot hard on the brake until it had slowed down, nearly stalled, turned ignition back on so fuel back, all good.
On some GM 2 stroke diesels, there is a knob, like a choke knob that will close a butterfly in the air inlet to stop a run-away. Never had it happen to me with my scraper.

The biggest cause of run-away is when the turbo oil seal on the air side fails & squirts oil into the inlet air.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:48 pm 
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Ive never experienced it, but I know other boat captains that have. They would carry a sturdy piece of wood (2X8) cut to fit over the intake. They said it would suck the wood apart by the time it stalled. ...and don't get your fingers under the edges!

Since then I consider the possibility of it happening to me.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:25 am 
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I don't remember ever reading about anyone having a run-a-way engine on one of these vehicles; theoretically it could certainly happen if the turbo seal on the air side failed, but since we have never read of it being a problem, I would not worry to much about it.
If it were to actually happen, simply be quick and snatch the air cleaner cover off and stuff a rag or towel in the air hose.

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
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Samcos/ProVent
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Carter Intank-pmp
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Flowmaster/NO CAT
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98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 2:19 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Your best solution is to add a ProVent that will remove 90% of the suspended liquids in the vapors coming out of the CCV puck.
As for piping, I fashioned a metal one out of 3/4" copper tubing and wrapping it with black insulated tape. I used silicone hose fitting to attach it at each end since silicone is impervious to heat and oil.
I like the ProVent 200 since it has a built in coalescing/centrifugal filter design along with a pressure regulator and safety valve to prevent any overpressure. :wink:

WWDiesel,

Just re-read your post and noticed the Provent over pressure safety valve statement. That should protect against pushing out the front main seal. :BANANA:

Where did you connect a drain so the Provent 200 can drain back to the oil pan :?: Or do you have to drain it occasionally :?:

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:58 pm 
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Yes it has two valves in the unit, one on the side regulates the crankcase pressure and the lid has a built in over pressure relief valve which would protect the crankcase from excessive pressure.
As for mine, I simply drain mine with each oil change and usually get a few ounces of liquid out of it. I also clean the filter and inside of the housing with brake cleaner.
One strange thing I noticed when I installed my ProVent 200 several years ago and I cannot explain it; at first I was getting a lot more liquid captured in it when I drained it. Now it does not seem to to be as much liquid in it as it first was, I have no idea why, but I don't worry about it as there are no engine oil leaks or other related problems.
I park my Jeep on concrete and having a 18 year old diesel powered vehicle that does not leak anything is phenomenal to me! :BANANA:
I wish I could say the same thing for my Dodge Cummins as it stays a little wet in the rear main oil seal area and it vents to atmosphere, came that way from the factory. :( I keep a thin metal pan with oil dry under it to catch any drips.

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:15 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
...at first I was getting a lot more liquid captured in it when I drained it. Now it does not seem to to be as much liquid in it as it first...

People say the longer their diesel runs, but better it runs. I'm guessing the rings have seated better now, thus allowing less blow by to the catch can.

Thanks for the image and explanation of the Provent 200.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 1:00 am 
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CaptainDean wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm back !!

...regarding the crankcase vent on the top of the engine and the hose that goes to the turbocharger.

...restricted the airflow and caused excessive pressure inside the engine. Thus, pushing the front main seal out enough to vent pressure and spew oil out.

...front main seal is not that big of job to access. I'll keep you all informed as I progress over this 3-day weekend.

Dean.

The weekend didn't go as planned. Got delayed by the big bolt in the end of the crankshaft. My electric impact gun would not get it out.
Applied a propane torch but no luck.
Used a bigger battery impact gun with 3/4" drive - still no joy.
Got out the Oxy/Accetyline set and heated the bolt head red hot and quenched it - no joy.
Borrowed a 1000 ft/lb compressed air driven impact wrench with my little air compressor - no joy.
Wrestled my big 5 hp compressor out from under the house and used it on the spare engine. Joy!! :BANANA:
Packed the beast into the pickup and took it 3 floors uphill to the front of the house and used the 1000 ft/lb impact gun and the bolt came out like it was already loose !!
Apparently the bolt needed to cool, then it came out easily.

So, finally I'm ready to tackle it again next weekend. While I'm in there, I'll replace the timing belt (no need) and put a new serpentine belt on. Noticed the mechanical fan mount need a new bearing so I'll replace that. Plan to get an opposite idler pulley (not a smooth one, a grooved one) and a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the viscous heater.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:33 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:09 pm
Posts: 541
Location: Australia
CaptainDean wrote:
CaptainDean wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm back !!

...regarding the crankcase vent on the top of the engine and the hose that goes to the turbocharger.

...restricted the airflow and caused excessive pressure inside the engine. Thus, pushing the front main seal out enough to vent pressure and spew oil out.

...front main seal is not that big of job to access. I'll keep you all informed as I progress over this 3-day weekend.

Dean.

The weekend didn't go as planned. Got delayed by the big bolt in the end of the crankshaft. My electric impact gun would not get it out.
Applied a propane torch but no luck.
Used a bigger battery impact gun with 3/4" drive - still no joy.
Got out the Oxy/Accetyline set and heated the bolt head red hot and quenched it - no joy.
Borrowed a 1000 ft/lb compressed air driven impact wrench with my little air compressor - no joy.
Wrestled my big 5 hp compressor out from under the house and used it on the spare engine. Joy!! :BANANA:
Packed the beast into the pickup and took it 3 floors uphill to the front of the house and used the 1000 ft/lb impact gun and the bolt came out like it was already loose !!
Apparently the bolt needed to cool, then it came out easily.

So, finally I'm ready to tackle it again next weekend. While I'm in there, I'll replace the timing belt (no need) and put a new serpentine belt on. Noticed the mechanical fan mount need a new bearing so I'll replace that. Plan to get an opposite idler pulley (not a smooth one, a grooved one) and a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the viscous heater.

Dean.


Good luck with finding the mech fan mount bearing! You may find yourself contacting ww for a rebuild !
I have been told the bearing is used on some New Holland tractors. Have never been able to find it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 11:02 pm 
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layback40 wrote:
CaptainDean wrote:
Noticed the mechanical fan mount need a new bearing so I'll replace that. Plan to get an opposite idler pulley (not a smooth one, a grooved one) and a shorter serpentine belt to bypass the viscous heater.
Dean.
I have some viscous heater delete kits in stock if you want one. Uses OEM belt and no modes required.

Good luck with finding the mech fan mount bearing! You may find yourself contacting ww for a rebuild!
I have been told the bearing is used on some New Holland tractors. Have never been able to find it though.

Unfortunately the OEM mechanical fan bearing is no longer available anywhere, I searched all over the world for them and there is no other exact same size or even useable size bearing that I could find available anywhere, and I contacted every major bearing distributor in the US and a few abroad.
The OEM bearing part number is a F-A-G WR01565. You can find it in the F-A-G bearing Catalog. It is a very unique bearing!
If you locate any anywhere, please let me know, I would love to order a bunch of them.

I did find one company who offered to tool up and make some of them if I placed a minimum order of 1,000 of them. $$$$
Not willing to invest that kind of money, it would be very expensive.
So I opted for rebuilding them using a slightly oversize bearing which requires boring out the housing to fit the slightly larger bearing. The housing has plenty of metal thickness to accommodate boring it out slightly. This works, have rebuilt and supplied over 60 hubs now. :D

Picture of rebuilt fan hub:

Image

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:19 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
...OEM bearing part number is a F-A-G WR01565. It is a very unique bearing! If you locate any anywhere, please let me know, I would love to order a bunch of them.

... housing has plenty of metal thickness to accommodate boring it out slightly. This works, have rebuilt and supplied over 60 hubs now. :D

Thanks WWDiesel and layback40,

I'll contact the local bearing house for the punk WR01565. Boring out the housing sounds like a perfectly acceptable method. I'll let you know what I find and decide.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:26 am 
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WWDiesel,

I just re-read my last posting and I cannot figure out why I used the work 'punk'. It feels like an odd usage to me and I can't imagine where it came from. :!:

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:32 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:09 pm
Posts: 541
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CaptainDean wrote:
WWDiesel,

I just re-read my last posting and I cannot figure out why I used the work 'punk'. It feels like an odd usage to me and I can't imagine where it came from. :!:

Dean.



Blame it on spell check! Everyone else does! :furious: :BINGO: :ALONE: :5SHOTS:

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:09 am 
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You did not type anything wrong, it changed the spelling automatically for you. :ROTFL:
If you type "F(A)G" without the () between the letters, it automatically changes the spelling to "punk". No idea as to why it does this. :shock: :banghead:
That is why I typed it as F-A-G to prevent it from doing this. :D
Crazy! :seuss:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:50 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
You did not type anything wrong, it changed the spelling automatically for you. :ROTFL:
If you type "F(A)G" without the () between the letters, it automatically changes the spelling to "punk". No idea as to why it does this. :shock: :banghead:
That is why I typed it as F-A-G to prevent it from doing this. :D
Crazy! :seuss:

Oh, that's funny! Auto Correct shows another example of when AI turns to AI. ie: When Artificial Intelligence turns to Artificial Incompetence.

Have you seen any other examples of this?

My new ProVent 200 arrived today. It's larger than I thought - about the diameter of a grapefruit. But that's good, there should be space for it to separate the oil from the vapor. I'll take your installation as an example and copy it. Thank for sharing.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:29 am 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Your best solution is to add a ProVent that will remove 90% of the suspended liquids in the vapors coming out of the CCV puck.
As for piping, I fashioned a metal one out of 3/4" copper tubing and wrapping it with black insulated tape. I used silicone hose fitting to attach it at each end since silicone is impervious to heat and oil.
I like the ProVent 200 since it has a built in coalescing/centrifugal filter design along with a pressure regulator and safety valve to prevent any overpressure. :wink:
Image

I'm planning to dig into the beast tomorrow, including installing the new ProVent 200. If you were going to do it again, would you change anything? Should I mount the ProVent a little lower than the CCV puck so no filthy oil can return to the engine? It would mean checking the oil more often and adding a quart once in a while.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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