Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

layback40 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 21, 2024 6:04 am

CaptainDean wrote:

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

layback40 wrote:

I have seen this on banjo connections many times. Especially when in hostile environments.
Always thought it starts with a bit of electrolysis from dis-similar metals. Then movement from thermal expansion. I have just given them a clean & rub with wet & dry to give a good surface. Soft copper (annealed) washers are important.

What type of end surface grinding bit would I get to polish these banjo connectors back to a good surface? I would guess I could do a good job on the drill press.

Or should I JB Weld a fresh spacer washer onto each surface?

Dean.

If it was me, I would put a piece of 240 grit wet & dry with plenty of diesel on it on a piece of glass. I have an old WW2 windscreen out of a bomber that is about 3" thick. Just rub the surface flat, then turn it over & do the same. If you are worried about the surfaces being parallel, you could mic it in 4 places around the surface & work out where to rub it with more pressure. Aneal your copper washers so they are soft & easily squashed to take up any imperfections.
Given your application, I would not be using JB weld.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Sep 21, 2024 2:43 pm

I would use a big flat file to resurface the faces of the banjo.
Should not take much to clean them up.
I would NOT use any JBWeld, it could get in the system and cause all kinds of problems.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

Thanks both layback40 and WWDiesel,

Got the oil leak fixed. Used the better oil supply tube and doubled-up on the copper washers. Lightly coated each copper seal with Permatex gasket sealer.

Removing and installing the oil supply line is not so hard with the right tools. Couldn't break the bottom connection loose, but used a 22mm crow foot wrench and a couple 3/8" extensions to break it loose from above. One of four of my 5" crescent wrenches opens up to more than 22mm which was manageable from below.

Thanks for the help.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

CaptainDean wrote:

Thanks both layback40 and WWDiesel,

Got the oil leak fixed. Used the better oil supply tube and doubled-up on the copper washers. Lightly coated each copper seal with Permatex gasket sealer.

Removing and installing the oil supply line is not so hard with the right tools. Couldn't break the bottom connection loose, but used a 22mm crow foot wrench and a couple 3/8" extensions to break it loose from above. One of four of my 5" crescent wrenches opens up to more than 22mm which was manageable from below.

Thanks for the help.

Dean.

Dad Gum !! It started leaking again! I'll take some pictures and get a good closeup of all the surfaces.

This should lead me to the next level of repair and use a small piece of high-temp gasket material to make the seal below the banjo connection. I suppose I'll have to incorporate a steel washer to make a broader clamping surface for the gasket material to the turbo body surface. I have a couple leather-work hole punches to form clean circular gaskets.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 22, 2024 9:27 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Thanks both layback40 and WWDiesel,

Got the oil leak fixed. Used the better oil supply tube and doubled-up on the copper washers. Lightly coated each copper seal with Permatex gasket sealer.

Removing and installing the oil supply line is not so hard with the right tools. Couldn't break the bottom connection loose, but used a 22mm crow foot wrench and a couple 3/8" extensions to break it loose from above. One of four of my 5" crescent wrenches opens up to more than 22mm which was manageable from below.

Thanks for the help.

Dean.

Dad Gum !! It started leaking again! I'll take some pictures and get a good closeup of all the surfaces.

This should lead me to the next level of repair and use a small piece of high-temp gasket material to make the seal below the banjo connection. I suppose I'll have to incorporate a steel washer to make a broader clamping surface for the gasket material to the turbo body surface. I have a couple leather-work hole punches to form clean circular gaskets.

Dean.

Sounds like you have a crack that opens up under pressure. Just a guess!
All the gaskets & washers is a way of causing a leak. I am not there looking at it all, wonder what is the exact location of the leak, banjo side of copper washer or the other side? If you put it together with only the banjo nearly tight, & then wobble it a little, the mark on the banjo may show the problem spot.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

Test [Edit] Oh, now I can post. More later...

I'm getting the following error message while attempting to display a picture.

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access this resource.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Anybody know what might be causing this?

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:14 am

Just tested, posted image, working just fine on my end.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

WWDiesel wrote:

Just tested, posted image, working just fine on my end.

Thanks WWDiesel,

I'm having problems at my end.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:08 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Thanks WWDiesel,
I'm having problems at my end.
Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

CaptainDean wrote:

Turbo oil line leak. Dug in far enough to change the copper seals on the turbo oil supply line and ran into problems. I have an oil leak that won't stop, and even gets worse when tightening the banjo bolt tighter. :dizzy:

Grabbed the oil line from the spare 2006 engine and compared the two. Had to make micro bending adjustments to get my original supply line to match the shape of the 2006 line. Here is what I found...

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

Dean.

Had to switch to another web browser to upload successfully. Mozilla Firefox is not performing well right now. Here are pictures of the banjo connection all together and of the location of the top of the turbo body.

Afterward, I very carefully adjusted the shape of the oil tube and got it to sit squarely atop the turbo housing. Used a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the connection.

All in all, it went back together nicely but still leaks. I'm going to start sounding like Donald Duck when he's all flustered.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 24, 2024 7:46 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Turbo oil line leak. Dug in far enough to change the copper seals on the turbo oil supply line and ran into problems. I have an oil leak that won't stop, and even gets worse when tightening the banjo bolt tighter. :dizzy:

Grabbed the oil line from the spare 2006 engine and compared the two. Had to make micro bending adjustments to get my original supply line to match the shape of the 2006 line. Here is what I found...

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

Dean.

Had to switch to another web browser to upload successfully. Mozilla Firefox is not performing well right now. Here are pictures of the banjo connection all together and of the location of the top of the turbo body.

Afterward, I very carefully adjusted the shape of the oil tube and got it to sit squarely atop the turbo housing. Used a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the connection.

All in all, it went back together nicely but still leaks. I'm going to start sounding like Donald Duck when he's all flustered.

Dean.

Those banjo surfaces are not flat enough to get a good seal.
The flat surface on the turbo is good.
Once you make the surfaces of the banjo flat, you will get a good tight seal.
The continual heating & cooling of the turbo causes small movement between the banjo & the turbo. That causes the depression in the banjo surface. Until you make the surfaces flat, it will leak.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

layback40 wrote:

CaptainDean wrote:

Those banjo surfaces are not flat enough to get a good seal.
The flat surface on the turbo is good.
Once you make the surfaces of the banjo flat, you will get a good tight seal.
The continual heating & cooling of the turbo causes small movement between the banjo & the turbo. That causes the depression in the banjo surface. Until you make the surfaces flat, it will leak.

Thanks for the help layback40,

I finally fixed the leak !! Somehow the gasket was missing from the turbo drain connection. I know I saw it there while I was installing the drain line, but it must have gotten raked off without me seeing it. darn Hawaiian Menehune must have taken it. Working in that location, I can reach up and turn a wrench, or I can see the bolt heads, but I cannot reach up there AND see it at the same time.
Anyway, I had another gasket and installed it with much cussing. I think the blue cloud has cleared by now. Drove the beast a mile out and back, and the turbo is still dry. :BANANA:

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

Found another oil leak, but it is from a transmission cooler connection, not the engine.

The driver's side connection is leaking. Not sure if that's the supply or return line.

The line going into the connection is loose. The nut is tight but the hard line wiggles and leaks. There is apparently a nylon seal inside that has broken down.

I'm going to attempt a repair on this line by cutting the fitting off, drilling, JB Welding and maybe tapping the fitting, and installing a simple 1/8" threaded pipe of the same diameter for a threaded splice to the original aluminum line. ...maybe an aluminum tube for a compression fitting to make the splice. Don't want to use copper pipe and have to deal with dissimilar metals & corrosion problems. ...not sure if there are synthetic tubing that would stand up to transmission temperatures and pressures.

Have to go into town and get materials. Not sure if a replacement fitting is available or not. That would be sweet.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Oct 07, 2024 12:16 pm

IF you take it apart, there is a simple O ring inside and on the outside of the fitting that can be replaced. Just be sure and use one that will stand up to ATF and heat. (note the clips that hold the metal line in the fitting)
Plenty of them available online if you search for them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/355404237402?c ... ywMTimGHmQ

layback40 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:48 pm

Viton Orings are what you need. I seldom use anything else. They are more expensive than standard buna type rings but its only cents.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 707

WWDiesel wrote:

IF you take it apart, there is a simple O ring inside and on the outside of the fitting that can be replaced. Just be sure and use one that will stand up to ATF and heat. (note the clips that hold the metal line in the fitting)
Plenty of them available online if you search for them. https://www.ebay.com/itm/355404237402?c ... ywMTimGHmQ

While bumbling around I figured out how to change the tiny o-ring inside this fitting. So far it seems fine but I found another leak in the transmission oil cooler. Right where the last cooling element attaches to the end cap tube. I'm going to attempt a repair but cutting off that last cooling tube and blocking the hole with fuel line and a hose clamp.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:33 am

CaptainDean wrote:

While bumbling around I figured out how to change the tiny o-ring inside this fitting. So far it seems fine but I found another leak in the transmission oil cooler. Right where the last cooling element attaches to the end cap tube. I'm going to attempt a repair but cutting off that last cooling tube and blocking the hole with fuel line and a hose clamp.
Dean.

FYI
NEW OEM style AC condenser/transmission coolers are available at RockAuto. :wink:

I installed one for a customer a while back and it was a good replacement.

Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

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