Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Thanks layback40,

It's too bad the Field Service Manual offers no specific help regarding installing the hydraulic lash adjusters. It just says ...

Now that I understand what bleeding the lash adjusters is, I now understand the importance. When I was rebuilding my engine I attempted to understand how they worked and what they needed. The FSM mentions using the original lash adjusters but does not address using new ones. We have to use whatever knowledge we can acquire.

My engine has a noise on acceleration and cruise but not at idle or deceleration. I'm preparing to replace the exhaust manifold gasket sometime with hopes that it will eliminate the noise. I heard another engine (Chevy v8) with a noisy lifter; it sounds more tinny than my noise.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:19 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Thanks layback40,

It's too bad the Field Service Manual offers no specific help regarding installing the hydraulic lash adjusters. It just says ...

Now that I understand what bleeding the lash adjusters is, I now understand the importance. When I was rebuilding my engine I attempted to understand how they worked and what they needed. The FSM mentions using the original lash adjusters but does not address using new ones. We have to use whatever knowledge we can acquire.

My engine has a noise on acceleration and cruise but not at idle or deceleration. I'm preparing to replace the exhaust manifold gasket sometime with hopes that it will eliminate the noise. I heard another engine (Chevy v8) with a noisy lifter; it sounds more tinny than my noise.

Dean.

The clack-clack noise at idle in a GM from the 1950's in Australia (Holden) is normally wristpin (gudgeon) noise. Occurred at idle.
My old Mercedes (300D) had solid lifters. Would get a bit noisy & they needed adjusting every year at the start of winter or the engine would not start.
Given the work you have done, its unlikely you have a wrist pin issue. Maybe you have one bad lifter?
I am sure in time you will work it out.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

layback40,

It's odd the idiosyncrasies these various vehicles have. Your old Mercedes sounds like a cranky old spinster feeling neglected after a cold winter.

I'm on the fence with my Liberty, not certain whether it's a bad lifter or a bad exhaust gasket. I do know that I had some issues when I installed the exhaust manifold. I took it off and back on without changing the gasket after it was initially installed. It's far less work to change the exhaust manifold gasket than to change lifters, so that's where I'm going first.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:32 am

CaptainDean wrote:

layback40,

It's odd the idiosyncrasies these various vehicles have. Your old Mercedes sounds like a cranky old spinster feeling neglected after a cold winter.

I'm on the fence with my Liberty, not certain whether it's a bad lifter or a bad exhaust gasket. I do know that I had some issues when I installed the exhaust manifold. I took it off and back on without changing the gasket after it was initially installed. It's far less work to change the exhaust manifold gasket than to change lifters, so that's where I'm going first.

Dean.

The iron head Mercedes are known to loose the gap on the exhaust valves. The gap is very small anyway. When it cools down they just wont start as the exhaust valve are left slightly open. Easy adjustment & they start easy.

Back before everyone got excited about asbestos, there was a gasket material called Colingerite (wrong spelling), It was asbestos with stainless wire through it. Was used a lot for high pressure steam flanges. Its great for exhaust gaskets on turbo engines as it is flexible & can take the temperature as well. It was banned years ago. I have a few sheets tucked away for a rainy day.
There is a Hylomar exhaust paste that is about as good as you can get. it is good if you have a bit of erosion around the ports.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Mercedes has a good reputation for engineering all the small problems out of their cars, I'm surprised they didn't cure the solid lifter issue for a long time. Of course the winters in Germany were very cold so the parts may have shrunk slightly smaller overnight. I suppose part of Mercedes' reputation was keeping the mechanics happy.

I remember those asbestos insulating blankets, and I remember when asbestos was outlawed. I was in high school. Google says is was no longer used after 1978 but I'm sure it was loosing ground before that. Late 60s? I was 15 in 1968.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:55 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Mercedes has a good reputation for engineering all the small problems out of their cars, I'm surprised they didn't cure the solid lifter issue for a long time. Of course the winters in Germany were very cold so the parts may have shrunk slightly smaller overnight. I suppose part of Mercedes' reputation was keeping the mechanics happy.

I remember those asbestos insulating blankets, and I remember when asbestos was outlawed. I was in high school. Google says is was no longer used after 1978 but I'm sure it was loosing ground before that. Late 60s? I was 15 in 1968.

Dean.

The OM617 was close to bullet proof. Good for 3 million Km without the head off. After that diesel engine MB started using alloy heads & they had hydraulic lifters, OM601 & others. That was about 1985. I think their petrol engines had hydraulic lifters earlier.

Over here asbestos was still being used in industrial applications in the late 80's. That is when I got my hands on the gasket sheet. IIRC, it was being thrown out. About that time 'muffler putty' was no longer around. The Chinese are still using it for exhaust gaskets. There was a recall in Aus for Great Wall pickups a few years ago because they had asbestos exhaust manifold gaskets.

I have a good friend who is an investigator with the EPA over here. They have a rock out of an asbestos mine (blue asbestos) as a paper weight. When visitors to their office see it, they are always picking it up for a look. When they ask what it is & are told, they put it down quick. Its covered in clear coat & harmless but people still think its dangerous to touch.

You have about 3 years on me! I am 68 next month.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

I've never held an asbestos rock, nor even seen one other than TV. I suspect they are lightweight for their size since they get made into textile.

Glad to hear I'm older than someone; I'm usually the younger and less experienced person in the crowd. Regardless, we're all in the same genre and a couple years doesn't mean much at our age.

I have brought a bit of experience with me, but after working on this Liberty I've learned quite a lot more. The forum is a really good medium, especially with pictures.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:25 am

CaptainDean wrote:

I've never held an asbestos rock, nor even seen one other than TV. I suspect they are lightweight for their size since they get made into textile.

Glad to hear I'm older than someone; I'm usually the younger and less experienced person in the crowd. Regardless, we're all in the same genre and a couple years doesn't mean much at our age.

I have brought a bit of experience with me, but after working on this Liberty I've learned quite a lot more. The forum is a really good medium, especially with pictures.

Dean.

If you are on Face Book, I can get a friend to send you a couple of pics of asbestos. I am not on FB but I have a good friend who is. I dont do photo hosting, that is why I dont show photos on here. It occurs between layers, sort of sedimentary rock. Before its ground up, its quite hard.
There was a large mine at Wittenoom in Western Australia. The tailings pile is interesting to see. Its now mainly locked up. They are about to shut the local town down & lock it away as well.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Thanks but no thanks layback40,

I don't need any chunks of Asbestos, it seems comparable to Kryptonite for Superman. I did, however watch a YouTube University video about the Wittenoom Asbestos mine and biggest health catastrophe in Australia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMAQXFkrUZ0

Too bad for all those people and families working that dry and dusty valley, and the lack of political power of the health department to shut them down.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

CaptainDean wrote:

layback40,

I'm on the fence with my Liberty, not certain whether it's a bad lifter or a bad exhaust gasket. I do know that I had some issues when I installed the exhaust manifold. I took it off and back on without changing the gasket after it was initially installed. It's far less work to change the exhaust manifold gasket than to change lifters, so that's where I'm going first.

Dean.

Hello everyone! I've been in radio silence since January.

This weekend I dug into the beast and removed the turbo and exhaust manifold so I can quell the noisy exhaust system. This task is probably the most awkward of all other repairs. Have to hang from my head half the time, and reach up from the ground the other half, and all while attempting to bend in directions the human body was not built for. Regardless, I've been taking it slowly and keeping my cool.

With all parts off now, I plan to replace the viscous heater with an idler pulley. Also need to bleed the anti-skid brake unit, reset the Tire Pressure management light, and finally delete the ERG from the computer.

[Edit] Plus I plan to finally install the forward propeller shaft to reconnect the transfer case to the front differential, and reinstall the right & left front axle shafts.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Sep 08, 2024 10:03 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

With all parts off now, I plan to replace the viscous heater with an idler pulley.
Dean.

Hi Dean,
If you would like one of my Viscous Heater Delete Kits, let me know, I now have a few in stock.
PM or email me!

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 08, 2024 11:28 pm

Welcome back to the land of the living Dean!
Not much to report. Things dont change that much.
Take your journey back slow & steady!

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

WWDiesel wrote:

Hi Dean,
If you would like one of my Viscous Heater Delete Kits, let me know, I now have a few in stock.
PM or email me!

Thanks layback40 and WWDiesel,
layback40: Glad to hear that not much has changed. Slow and steady is my favorite pace.

WWDiesel: I've got the parts to assemble a DIY kit. If something goes awry I'll contact you PDQ. Just for farts and smiles, send me a quote including freight to Kona Hawaii, zip code 96740. Omit the belt but send the part number; I have a few belts laying around that might be the right one.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:23 am

CaptainDean wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Hi Dean,
If you would like one of my Viscous Heater Delete Kits, let me know, I now have a few in stock.
PM or email me!

Thanks layback40 and WWDiesel,
layback40: Glad to hear that not much has changed. Slow and steady is my favorite pace.

WWDiesel: I've got the parts to assemble a DIY kit. If something goes awry I'll contact you PDQ. Just for farts and smiles, send me a quote including freight to Kona Hawaii, zip code 96740. Omit the belt but send the part number; I have a few belts laying around that might be the right one.

Dean.

The delete kit I manufacture reuses the OEM belt, no modifications required.
I will send you a quote later today.

I normally provide free shipping in the US. :wink:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:29 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

WWDiesel: I've got the parts to assemble a DIY kit. If something goes awry I'll contact you PDQ. Just for farts and smiles, send me a quote including freight to Kona Hawaii, zip code 96740. Omit the belt but send the part number; I have a few belts laying around that might be the right one.
Dean.

Check your email & PMs.
Shipping is included to Hawaii. :mrgreen:

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Thanks for the quote WWDiesel. I haven't gotten back to the Viscous Heater delete yet. I'll try my DIY method first and then contact you as necessary. I have some mild steel 1/2"x3" flat stock in the shop that I'll fashion for the job. See what happens...

Got the beast back together with new exhaust gaskets. It sounds much better but still has exhaust noises. I'll have to inspect the exhaust pipe and mufflers; hopefully I'll find something.

There is still a tick that *sounds* like an exhaust leak at the manifold. I'll have to assume it is a hydraulic lash adjuster that never pumps up properly. To fix that I'll have to take off the head cover - which means I'll have to drive it as-is for quite a while.

My brother and sister are coming for a visit Sept 19-22 so I doubt I'll do anymore before then.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

CaptainDean wrote:

Hello everyone! I've been in radio silence since January.

This weekend I dug into the beast and removed the turbo and exhaust manifold so I can quell the noisy exhaust system. This task is probably the most awkward of all other repairs. Have to hang from my head half the time, and reach up from the ground the other half, and all while attempting to bend in directions the human body was not built for. Regardless, I've been taking it slowly and keeping my cool.

Dean.

Turbo oil line leak. I didn't plan to work on the beast anymore until after my brother & sister had visited and went back home. Turned out the beast had other plans for me. Dug in far enough to change the copper seals on the turbo oil supply line and ran into problems. I have an oil leak that won't stop, and even gets worse when tightening the banjo bolt tighter. :dizzy:

Grabbed the oil line from the spare 2006 engine and compared the two. Had to make micro bending adjustments to get my original supply line to match the shape of the 2006 line. Here is what I found...

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

Somehow the banjo connector got damaged and would not seal correctly. I did discover I had the wrong bolt installed. It's odd because that bolt has been working fine. The threads in the turbo housing are a bit goofed up so this will be a drum roll chance in getting a good seal. I have the right bolt again and new copper sealing washers.

Anyway, I'm putting the good looking oil supply line onto my Jeep. I'll let you know how the seal comes out.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 19, 2024 11:09 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

Turbo oil line leak. I didn't plan to work on the beast anymore until after my brother & sister had visited and went back home. Turned out the beast had other plans for me. Dug in far enough to change the copper seals on the turbo oil supply line and ran into problems. I have an oil leak that won't stop, and even gets worse when tightening the banjo bolt tighter. :dizzy:

Grabbed the oil line from the spare 2006 engine and compared the two. Had to make micro bending adjustments to get my original supply line to match the shape of the 2006 line. Here is what I found...

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

Somehow the banjo connector got damaged and would not seal correctly. I did discover I had the wrong bolt installed. It's odd because that bolt has been working fine. The threads in the turbo housing are a bit goofed up so this will be a drum roll chance in getting a good seal. I have the right bolt again and new copper sealing washers.

Anyway, I'm putting the good looking oil supply line onto my Jeep. I'll let you know how the seal comes out.

Dean.

I have seen this on banjo connections many times. Especially when in hostile environments.
Always thought it starts with a bit of electrolysis from dis-similar metals. Then movement from thermal expansion. I have just given them a clean & rub with wet & dry to give a good surface. Soft copper (annealed) washers are important.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

layback40 wrote:

I have seen this on banjo connections many times. Especially when in hostile environments.
Always thought it starts with a bit of electrolysis from dis-similar metals. Then movement from thermal expansion. I have just given them a clean & rub with wet & dry to give a good surface. Soft copper (annealed) washers are important.

Thanks layback40,

I hadn't thought of that. However, Hawaii is a hostile environment. We say, "...everything rusts in Hawaii..." I'll have to take a second look at the turbo housing just to be safe. I may have to carefully *schmeir* some JB Weld down to ensure a good seal. Thanks for the input. I was thinking about switching to a braided flexible hose and an aftermarket banjo fitting if necessary.

These corrosion spots are at the bitter end of the oil supply tube. I'm glad to have another tube since a new tube is $148 and two weeks from IDParts.com.

I do have new copper washers but I think they're just cheap ones; got a kit with 110 washers for $13 at NAPA. I'll order the correct ones as soon as I get this leak stopped. I may want to switch to some non-metalic hard seals to avoid further problems.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

These pictures are of two sides of both banjo bolt connections. Notice the non-machined look to one of the banjo surfaces.

layback40 wrote:

I have seen this on banjo connections many times. Especially when in hostile environments.
Always thought it starts with a bit of electrolysis from dis-similar metals. Then movement from thermal expansion. I have just given them a clean & rub with wet & dry to give a good surface. Soft copper (annealed) washers are important.

What type of end surface grinding bit would I get to polish these banjo connectors back to a good surface? I would guess I could do a good job on the drill press.

Or should I JB Weld a fresh spacer washer onto each surface?

Dean.

Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

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