T&T CUSTOMS INTERESTED IN LIBERTY!

lilmatty · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:25 pm

Bob: If you guys want to do a KJ IFS lift that'll get me at least 33s and perhaps 35s under it then I'll drive my KJ to you and let you develop the lift. Just ask. The only stipulation would be that the weak (supposedly) front case issue would also need to be solved.

DaveKJ02 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:47 pm

I think a good IFS kit with a new diff would be perfect. If it can comfortably get some 33's on it you'd probably hit a bigger market since thats pretty much the popular size limit for a DD. IMO, bigger than 33's and you've got more of a trail machine and you might as well go for the SAS. Not sure what market T&T is looking for. Seems most of still drive our KJ's and not many people are buying them to keep around to build as a trail rig! :lol:

AZScout · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:56 pm

If you build it...they will come!

chefdab · **Posted:** Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:31 pm

But why is it only the small custom shops that are willing to take a chance and build stuff for the Liberty?

TheChucklesStart · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:41 am

The way I see it, either way (IFS lift or SFA lift) there has to be a new mthod for holding the axle to the vehicles (long arms or new A arms). There also has to be a new axle (better CV joints and diff or a solid axle) and probably a new steering box.

Either way I don't see it being cheap. I do see the possibility of keeping the subframe and have a less permanent solution with an IFS lift, which I am in favor for.

In reality, if there is a way for me to run 33" or 35" tires w/o trimming fenders, I will be happy.

white04kj · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:37 am

First off let me start by saying the KJ's probably getting sold within the next few months, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

If I were to invest in a bigger lift, I'd want a solid axle up there. The solid axle will allow far more options when it comes to upgrades (lockers, gears, axle shafts, etc.) The solid axle will offer better flex and durability, and as Marty stated, long arms will help keep a nice ride (you've got to remember though, you'll be throwing some 33-35" MT's under your KJ, there's no way you'll be able to keep your stock ride - it just isn't gonna happen.)

If you were to go IFS, I think a good option would be to try and swap the D30a for a GC D44. I don't know how durable they are, but I'm sure they'll spin 33's with no problem, possibly 35's. New CV's will obviously be a must, as will new upper and lower arms. It'd be a pretty cool setup, but I'd still prefer the SFA personally.

You've also got to consider that once you're running such large tires, things are going to break if you don't upgrade them; things like steering components and driveshafts are going to have to be replaced.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I think we as KJ'ers are a bit spoiled when it comes to what we're willing to pay for mods. TJ guys spend $1500 plus just on a lift without batting an eye, and that doesn't count the cost of the durability upgrades that are going to be necessary to run larger tires. All said just to run the larger tires they often spend around $3k, and that's not even a full build. Check out rubiconownersforum.com if you want to see some guys who aren't afraid to abuse their wallets. I think everyone needs to accept that in order to clear 33's or higher on a KJ, they're going to need to spend $5K plus, and that's probably on the low end considering the fab work that'll have to be done, not counting the cost of tires, etc. Sorry for the long-winded post, hopefully nobody's dozed off reading this.

OzLtd · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:22 am

Jeger wrote:

My vote goes for a much improved IFS setup. Most importantly some high angle CV's and steel diff up front. I bought the KJ because it came in a diesel, but also because it was a well rounded machine I dont want to detract to much from the streetability so a little lift help and a lot of flex/strength help is what I would go for.

I'm with you. I think a strong flexible IFS with decent coilovers & new upper & lowwer arms would be the go. You can get an IFS flexing as hard as a SFA easy. Its just a case of the design. If someone were to create this type of decent IFS, I think it would be a hit.
Think of it; a 4-5"+ lifted Liberty on 32"s, 33"s - hard full flex front with adjustabe coil overs - WHO WOULDNT DO IT!! :twisted:

I've seen plenty of hardcore engineered aftermarket IFS systems out there for shietloads of different makes in the US, I wanna see someone do it for the Lib!!!

SFA is awesome I agree, and if you got the cash & 3-4 months up your sleeve, yeah, why not - but in the real world, we want a 1-2 day turn around bolt in kit that doesnt require welding and costs around or below $3K - THAT's HOW YOU'LL SELL IT, NOT BY TRYING TO RE-INVENT THE WHEEL!!!

kolesy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:52 pm

OzLtd wrote:

Jeger wrote:

My vote goes for a much improved IFS setup. Most importantly some high angle CV's and steel diff up front. I bought the KJ because it came in a diesel, but also because it was a well rounded machine I dont want to detract to much from the streetability so a little lift help and a lot of flex/strength help is what I would go for.

I'm with you. I think a strong flexible IFS with decent coilovers & new upper & lowwer arms would be the go. You can get an IFS flexing as hard as a SFA easy. Its just a case of the design. If someone were to create this type of decent IFS, I think it would be a hit.
Think of it; a 4-5"+ lifted Liberty on 32"s, 33"s - hard full flex front with adjustabe coil overs - WHO WOULDNT DO IT!! :twisted:

I've seen plenty of hardcore engineered aftermarket IFS systems out there for shietloads of different makes in the US, I wanna see someone do it for the Lib!!!

SFA is awesome I agree, and if you got the cash & 3-4 months up your sleeve, yeah, why not - but in the real world, we want a 1-2 day turn around bolt in kit that doesnt require welding and costs around or below $3K - THAT's HOW YOU'LL SELL IT, NOT BY TRYING TO RE-INVENT THE WHEEL!!!

I like the way you think!

My sentiments exactly!

Matt400 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:10 pm

Rock Yacht wrote:

What else are you folks interested in, parts/products wise?

Thanks,

Bob

I would like to see replacement front & rear bumpers that don't add allot of weight, have a clean look, allow better clearance with tow hooks & light tabs and possibly an integrated rear receiver.

FabTech comes to mind for style but they don't do Liberty's leaving Rock Lizard which appears much more heavy and brawny.

fdezone · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:43 pm

Quote:

What else are you folks interested in, parts/products wise?

Tube fenders would be sweet.

fdezone · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:43 pm

Quote:

What else are you folks interested in, parts/products wise?

Quote:

If budget permitted, I would cut the rear wheel well comp style straight back to the taillight, relocate the gas tank up into the rear cargo (or use a fuel cell $$$$) with a custom enclosure and when making the new rear control arms, make them long enough to stretch the rear axle back about 7.

I like Rock Lizard's idea to stretch the wheelbase. How about a NEW GAS TANK and matching skid, that would allow/simplify the upgrade without having to "relocate the gas tank up into the rear cargo" area. Maybe something flatter and longer or wider.

Also, TUBE FENDERS! The KJ is pretty tall. I would like to open the wheel wells to allow larger tires without having to raise the COG so drastically.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:06 pm

kolesy wrote:

OzLtd wrote:

Jeger wrote:

My vote goes for a much improved IFS setup. Most importantly some high angle CV's and steel diff up front. I bought the KJ because it came in a diesel, but also because it was a well rounded machine I dont want to detract to much from the streetability so a little lift help and a lot of flex/strength help is what I would go for.

I'm with you. I think a strong flexible IFS with decent coilovers & new upper & lowwer arms would be the go. You can get an IFS flexing as hard as a SFA easy. Its just a case of the design. If someone were to create this type of decent IFS, I think it would be a hit.
Think of it; a 4-5"+ lifted Liberty on 32"s, 33"s - hard full flex front with adjustabe coil overs - WHO WOULDNT DO IT!! :twisted:

I've seen plenty of hardcore engineered aftermarket IFS systems out there for shietloads of different makes in the US, I wanna see someone do it for the Lib!!!

SFA is awesome I agree, and if you got the cash & 3-4 months up your sleeve, yeah, why not - but in the real world, we want a 1-2 day turn around bolt in kit that doesnt require welding and costs around or below $3K - THAT's HOW YOU'LL SELL IT, NOT BY TRYING TO RE-INVENT THE WHEEL!!!

I like the way you think!

My sentiments exactly!

I also like this idea. I believe if there was a way to fix the front diff in our jeeps and make a lift based around that, then many people would buy.

kolesy · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:12 pm

Some more procustcs I would like to see.....

I wouldn;t mind seeing a new set of bumpersas well. I like the ones that are out there and am gonna get one when the certain one is done, eh eh.... But I would like another option as well. Personally i dont want a bumper with a winch mount, i lik ejust the reciever to be able to place a winch in. I like the idea of tube fender flares as well. PLastics got to go!

fdezone · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:26 pm

If folks are so adamant about an IFS lift, then maybe optional steering upgrades and manual locking hubs should be considered.

Matt400 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:57 pm

Tube fenders hrmm... I don't know if I would want that radical of a change but different molded flares to allow better tire clearance would be cool.

Myke · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:45 pm

SavageSS27 wrote:

Here's the deal...I think an SFA swap is the best way to go, especially considering that we'd need to replace the weak D30A anyway. Not to mention, when you cradle drop an IFS system and start getting it to the extremes of travel, you start running into major bump-steer and camber/toe/caster issues. As for the leaf spring/coilover issue. I think it would be kinda strange to see something with a coil sprung rear and a leaf front end. Usually it's the other way around. Then there's the fact that coilovers, although much more expensive, are also much more adjustable, usefull, and flexy. If it was really an issue though, maybe they should do two separate kits, or an option to go with either kit. Now pricewise, either kit is gonna be really expensive due to the need for two new axles, a completely new steering setup, new driveshafts, and possibly a new T-case. Any way you look at it, this is gonna be a really expensive upgrade. But i'd be willing to lay out the cash, just to have a cool KJ, even though you could take the 6K it's gonna cost you (at least) and buy an old SJ, jack it way up and throw some mudders under it and have a really capeable rig.

I think he is right, we need to get rid of the d30a. So what if we can 40k" of lift if the biggest tire we can fit is a 33" and still run the risk of blowing it up on a 31". Then if you do go with a leaf sprung kit, can you saw eww its gonna look so ugly imho. There are no downsides to going with a coil over. If you can't afford it you shouldn't even be thinking about doing the swap. I personally can't afford it but I love to day dream and who knows after I get a new KJ I might be able to afford the kit.

Jeger · **Posted:** Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:10 pm

Well it seems that the only real consesus we have is to have a stronger front diff. I might go for that as a standalone mod.

mattnmette · **Posted:** Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:07 am

I like the different fender flares idea this will alow us to cut out the wheel wells a little and cover them back up with somthing profesional and clean looking. As for the front end/lift, a long travel IFS system and a diff. that won't grenade when we put bigger tires or lockers. After someone makes an affordable way to mod the front end its just a matter of putting longer springs, shocks, control arms and possibly a longer drive shaft in the rear.Compared to the front end the rear will be easy.

Rock Yacht · **Posted:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:06 am

Morning Fellas, sorry haven't been around in a while. I'm neck deep in development on the YJ/TJ platform at the moment, as well as trying to get our ZJ up to speed. Haven't forgotten about you though. In reading the responses so far I see a need for a front diff that could be swapped in along with a good IFS lift. Got an idea, need to look at availability of parts (gears, lockers, etc.) and feasibility of the swap. Also I see the want for a SAS kit. From a product line development point of view that would be one of the last things to get built. It's kinda like our XJ/ZJ/TJ lines. We started small - short arms - got that the way we wanted it, tested the snot out of it and THEN went on to the long arm systems once we had a pocket full of notes and test data. If any of you have been following us you know the TJ LA kit has been over a year in the making. If it's not right, it doesn't ship. Not to say the TJ kit isn't right, it's awesome. There are several production issues we are still working on. I also see a couple guys asking for tube fenders, hmmmmm that could be interesting. More than likely the first couple of products out the door will be armor. Belly Pan, Rock Rails, chassis stiffners. We need a foundation to build the other cool stuff off of.

As for bumpers, we really don't have bumpers in our bag of tricks, so to speak. I leave bumpers to guys like Martin at Rock Lizzard or Larry at Trail Ready. They do really nice work and are good at it. It's the ol' jack of all trades and master of none deal.

Cheers, Bob

Matt400 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:42 pm

Rock Yacht wrote:

I'm neck deep in development on the YJ/TJ platform at the moment, as well as trying to get our ZJ up to speed.

Oh well... seems you are not the only one as all the other companies are in the same struggle making Wrangler products.
Who ever gets the jump on the KJ will sell allot of product IMO because there is not much competition at the moment. After all isn't there over 800,000 on the road and if only 10% were interested in off road products thats a nice chunk of pie to draw from.

T&T CUSTOMS INTERESTED IN LIBERTY!

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