Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Stopped at the Jeep today on the way to work, and on the way home. In the morning tried going forward with the shifter in Low - no joy.

After work I stopped again and this time the electric fuel pump was working again !! Also added a quart of transmission fluid - no joy to the low fluid scenario.

With these things not being unsuccessful, I handed the Jeep over to the mechanic. See what magic he can do. He says he uses wired Internet because he doesn't like to have glitches with wireless. This guy is an old race car mechanic so he is familiar with uploading tunes.

I/he still need to...
download a copy of my ECU program
upload the corresponding delete EGR firmware tunes
perform the transmission Quick Learn

Not sure if any of these will help.

Dean.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:50 am

This was the cause of six months of intemittant transmission glitches until I found the short in the TCM to Transmission harness. FYI. This was shorting out near the passenger side AC accumulator clamp, missing some cable guards.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

You stated that "the jeep died and the fuel filter was empty". I had an inline fuel pump but got rid of it due to several issues. I would bypass the fuel pump as suggested in a previous post, just in case it failed and is not a flow through design. This could lead to fuel starvation/no fuel at fuel filter. I had a lot of issues with air in fuel, thus the inline fuel pump (now removed). But now, seeing that I cannot afford to import an in-tank pump from the USA I made sure there are no air leaks between tank and fuel filter and this sorted most if this issue. Still sucking air between the filter and filter head though.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

vwroad87 wrote:

This was the cause of six months of intermittent transmission glitches until I found the short in the TCM to Transmission harness. FYI. This was shorting out near the passenger side AC accumulator clamp, missing some cable guards.

Thanks vwroad87,

Glad you are finally out of that problem. You must have been going mad at times.

That area is a cramped area with all the wire bundle connectors crammed together. This are an excellent clue if I start to suspect wiring faults.

I like the looks, ride and power of the Liberty. If it had a mechanical fuel pump & mechanical injectors with hard lines, and a non-electronic transmission then the only wiring would be for lights, radio and gauges. I fully support the elimination of all the control modules.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Ludi Neethling wrote:

You stated that "the jeep died and the fuel filter was empty". I had an inline fuel pump but got rid of it due to several issues. I would bypass the fuel pump as suggested in a previous post, just in case it failed and is not a flow through design. This could lead to fuel starvation/no fuel at fuel filter. I had a lot of issues with air in fuel, thus the inline fuel pump (now removed). But now, seeing that I cannot afford to import an in-tank pump from the USA I made sure there are no air leaks between tank and fuel filter and this sorted most if this issue. Still sucking air between the filter and filter head though.

Thanks Ludi Neethling,

I am a full supporter of tightening the fuel filter with a filter removal tool, hand tight doesn't seem to pan out even with oil on the o-ring.

Apparently my in-line electric fuel pump is also not a pass-through model. When I do finally get this vehicle stabilized then I'll put in an in-tank pump.

I am surprised that your only choice for importing is from the USA. I got parts from a VM Motori Specialist shop in England. Also there are off-brand in-tank pumps available from China quite cheap. Check out eBay and Amazon.

Dean.

Ludi Neethling · **Joined:** Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:04 am **Posts:** 87

Thank you Dean. I am due for a new fuel filter and will definitely use a filter removal tool to tighten it. I imported Etechno Glow Plugs from Italy at a fraction of the cost at the local OEM dealer, so I am a ware of the options. For now my "air in fuel" problem has been addressed. My concern with "alternative" brands in-tank fuel pumps is reliability and service life. I'd rather keep on sorting out the air leak instead of damaging the injection pump with a dodgy in-tank pump.

Thank you for posting your progress, it provided me with a lot of info/insight should I have to deal with this eventually.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Update. Most of the time I am the cause of my troubles. :furious:

This time (will drive in reverse, not forward) is probably my mistake too. :banghead:

When I discovered the water in the *other* transmission, I spoke with the transmission shop. (Only 2 in Kona, Gear Masters and AAMCO. I had my fill with AAMCO 30 years ago. I saw them once here and could not leave their shop fast enough.) Vic from Gear Masters told me to run the Quick Learn process before driving very far. :banghead:

He put special emphasis on his statement.

As it happened, I need to relocate my wireless router to get WiFi in the front yard where I work on the Liberty. Haven't done that yet so I haven't run Quick Learn yet. :banghead:

Low and behold, the transmission is acting up and preventing the vehicle to drive forward. And the Liberty is stuck at the mechanic's shop. :ALONE:

I suspect Raymond at Precision Auto Repair will be able to help me. This will be the first time in a vastly long time that I have paid a mechanic to work on my own vehicle.

Dean. :5SHOTS:

JieselDeep · **Posted:** Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:48 am

Darn! I really should have stopped by. I could have given you Wi-Fi access via my cell phone in the front yard! I just got my lift shifted over to the new Jeep, and confirmed that I really do have a lower ball joint going out on the lower control arm. I'll get that put in this week, but my wife offered the new Jeep to friends of ours, visiting from Oahu this weekend. So I won't have the new Jeep this weekend, next weekend, my own family is visiting from the mainland and I promised them the use of the Jeep. I think I'm picking them up from the airport Friday evening. I'll be in touch as that gets closer. Maybe I can swing by on my way to the airport

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Talked with the mechanic today, he got the Jeep working again.

He found two problems: 1) a ground wire not connected to a ground lug. 2) a broken wire just making contact on the common rail fuel pressure sensor.

1) He spotted a ground wire not connected on the passenger side near the engine harness connectors. He touched it to ground and got a spark. He connected that wire to the grounding bolt.

2) His hand accidentally brushed the wires to the fuel rail fuel pressure sensor and the engine died. Did it again intentionally and the engine died again. He replaced that connector.

I am always glad to have someone else check my work. He will call after giving it another test drive.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:42 am

Fingers crossed that will be the end of problems for a long while!

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

Got the Jeep back from the mechanic today and it runs and shifts good. They called the Jeep/Chrysler help desk to get clues that led them to the ground wire.

The technician found a ground wire that came out of the circle lug was (L3?) ground which is common to the ECM and the TCM. There are 3 grounds in that system and this one is number 3. My bill included a terminal lug for $12 and a $100 charge for calling the help desk.

The high pressure fuel rail pressure sensor had a broken wire that would make and break connection. The help desk told them when the sensor sends a false high pressure signal, the ECM dumps pressure out of the fuel rail thus causing the engine to die. The bill included a $120 new connector for the fuel rail pressure sensor.

Labor for all this was $330. Took me a while to become accustomed (or numb) to the bill, but in the long run it is worthwhile. Although I may not sleep for a week.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:05 am

Dean,
Do you know the exact location or have a picture for future reference?
I know of two different ground locations coming out of the wiring harness on the drivers side, but not sure of this third one.

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:23 am

After chasing my own nightmare with parts of the wiring harness I am very interested in the 3rd location as well.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

This was on the USA passenger side near the 4 engine harness connectors. There is a grounding stud on the firewall. I'll edit a photo in tomorrow.

[Edit] It's tomorrow now and here are two pictures. Turns out the ground lug is not on the firewall, it's on the top of the fender well.

This is at the rear of the engine compartment near the electronic module, brake fluid reservoir & antiskid system, and the four engine harness connectors. The ground wire is almost underneath the four connectors.

Here is a close-up of the ground wire. I have the four connectors moved out of the way. Fortunately the technician cleaned the surface before tightening down the lug and nut. There is a black covering on the actual wire so it is difficult to make out.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

I finally ran the Quick Learn process using the Launch iCarScan OBDII connector module and the EZ Diag app for the Apple iPhone. EZ Diag only runs on an Apple iPhone, not an Android. I'm lucky enough to have an Apple iPhone from work, my personal phone is an Android.

There was some skepticism earlier about whether this module works on the Jeep Liberty. I can confirm that it does work and the Quick Learn process worked on the transmission.

Here is a video about running the iCarScan running Quick Learn on a Dodge truck. The experience I had today was quite similar to the video, although there was a bit of setup needed before you can emulate the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB5rCwX9vRs

The unit did not find the Jeep Liberty automatically. It ran with an undefined vehicle, but it did locate all the Control Modules in the vehicle.

It made the transmission work better afterward. I notice a little more power and no more lag between shifts after running Quick Learn.

Dean.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:28 am

Bolts and TC took care of the noise?

All issues are now gone?

Hopefully you can find some comfort in knowing everything you've done, and confidence, knowing it was done with attention to detail rather than attention to the clock.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 718

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Bolts and TC took care of the noise? All issues are now gone? Hopefully you can find some comfort in knowing everything you've done, and confidence, knowing it was done with attention to detail rather than attention to the clock.

Thank you GordnadoCRD. The Jeep is much healthier now although I have two noises remaining. The original "clinking and clanking" noise is much smaller but not gone. The TC bolts are holding -- thank you. I believe the only thing not replaced is the motor and transmission mounts. I picked up and shook the motor mounts from the 2006 *other* engine and they rattled like WWDiesel's "...bunch of loose bolts rattling around in a coffee can...". That was a serious epiphany toward accepting my motor mounts as the final culprit.

The other noise is the rear ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing which I have not mentioned before. The Jeep died at the mechanic's shop last week while he was attempting to listen to the rear end. After fixing the broken wire and unconnected ground wire, he finally heard the howls and whines from the aft pumpkin. I'm sure I'll have to do the front 3rd member as well, but it can wait.

In high school (about a hundred years ago) I replaced the ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing my gold 1964 327 4-speed El Camino. It worked but you could witness the Doppler effect as that vehicle passed. This time I'll have a professional do it, or get a used 3.73 ratio rear end locally.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:01 am

& as the sun slowly sets in the west, it looks like Dean has a reliable jeep! For now!
What is left to do is unlikely to stop it so you can spend a bit of time investigating the best way forward. The mounts come up from time to time at a good discount.

snowballs · **Joined:** Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:05 pm **Posts:** 85

layback40 wrote:

& as the sun slowly sets in the west, it looks like Dean has a reliable jeep! For now!
What is left to do is unlikely to stop it so you can spend a bit of time investigating the best way forward. The mounts come up from time to time at a good discount.

Congratulations CaptainDean. I have enjoyed following this thread and have learned a lot about our CRDs. Thank you and all the other contributors. Enjoy, you also deserve a few :5SHOTS:

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:21 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Bolts and TC took care of the noise? All issues are now gone? Hopefully you can find some comfort in knowing everything you've done, and confidence, knowing it was done with attention to detail rather than attention to the clock.

Thank you GordnadoCRD. The Jeep is much healthier now although I have two noises remaining. The original "clinking and clanking" noise is much smaller but not gone. The TC bolts are holding -- thank you. I believe the only thing not replaced is the motor and transmission mounts. I picked up and shook the motor mounts from the 2006 *other* engine and they rattled like WWDiesel's "...bunch of loose bolts rattling around in a coffee can...". That was a serious epiphany toward accepting my motor mounts as the final culprit.

The other noise is the rear ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing which I have not mentioned before. The Jeep died at the mechanic's shop last week while he was attempting to listen to the rear end. After fixing the broken wire and unconnected ground wire, he finally heard the howls and whines from the aft pumpkin. I'm sure I'll have to do the front 3rd member as well, but it can wait.

In high school (about a hundred years ago) I replaced the ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing my gold 1964 327 4-speed El Camino. It worked but you could witness the Doppler effect as that vehicle passed. This time I'll have a professional do it, or get a used 3.73 ratio rear end locally.

Dean.

Just rebuilt my 8.25 rear end. My howling was caused by carrier bearings. If the howl goes away when in a curve that's carrier bearings. Either way you want to replace all the bearings of course. Also my original ring and pinion was so pitted from someone not doing maintenance I opted to rebuild a junk yard rear end instead that had a perfect set of R&P gears. And if your pocket book has recoverd throw in a trutrac LSD while it's all torn apart.

Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

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