CV Angles with Frankenlift

tonycrd · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:45 pm

gmoney2626 wrote:

Looking at the UCA it looks like two bolts at the top that are accessible through the engine compartment and the LBJ bolt in the knuckle. Seems easy enough but from readying on here ... apparently there is difficulty to this?!?!?!? Also I am concerned with the previous comments about knocking noise?!?!?!? If I put these UCAs in am I now introducing other problems?

No it's easy enough, only on yours the left rear is a bit hard to reach, that's all.

The nocking noise happens to people who do not cut out the pockets. Then the new arms touch the body.

See here:

http://jeepinbyal.com/A-arm_mounting_pockets.aspx

I think that fitting the GEN 4.5 and have it aligned again by a shop should get rid of your problem.

If you don't feel like investing that much you could have the spacer cut down say an inch. But then you'll have to take the coil of. Maybe someone can help you out?

gmoney2626 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:47 pm

tonycrd wrote:

No it's easy enough, only on yours the left rear is a bit hard to reach, that's all.

The nocking noise happens to people who do not cut out the pockets. Then the new arms touch the body.

See here:

http://jeepinbyal.com/A-arm_mounting_pockets.aspx

I think that fitting the GEN 4.5 and have it aligned again by a shop should get rid of your problem.

If you don't feel like investing that much you could have the spacer cut down say an inch. But then you'll have to take the coil of. Maybe someone can help you out?

I was wondering the same thing. Do you happen to know how much the upper control arm should push out the top of the rim from stock? Is it a 1/4 to 1/2"? My concern is that it will be anywhere between 1/16" TO 1/4" and I may need just a little bit more to stop the binding and still be screwed.

I was thinking that if I jack up the car and put a stand under the LCA, take of the tire, unbolt the UBJ, take a hammer and bang the knuckle the ball joint is in and not the UCA or UBJ this should free up (this is how we broke it free during the lift install. Then I feel I should be able to push up the old UCA, unbolt from the frame and install the new UCA. What is not clear to me at this point is how easy it will be to get the UBJ bolted back to the knuckle now that have to move the top of the knuckle further out from the position it is currently in. Is that flexible to the limit of the LBJ and axle shaft at that point?

Investment is another good point. I bought the lift for the price listed on the web and have invested 1/2 to 3/4 that amount trying to solve this issue. I need to decide where the cut off is for me. I am still waiting on Marlin to call me back with his thoughts and suggestions and guess it will depend on that. Basically there are three options in front of me at this point.

1. Modify the lift to lower the car - unknown labor cost

2. Get UCA and SEE if that corrects the problem - about another $400 w/o labor and hope I can successfully do this myself.

3. Shaved CV axle assemblies that are really expensive and something I wont be able to do by myself.

I have talked to Quinn about someone they were comfortable doing the work close to me and he could only mentioned Marlin in PA. (6hrs 300 miles and I cant tow the car)

There is another guy on the board who is the next town over that I sent a PM to asking if he could bring his Jeep by so I could compare, but I havent gotten a response. I have no idea what his level of experience is or if he would even be interested in helping. This is a big military town so he might not be available at the moment.... but again I havent gotten a response from him yet.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:53 pm

1 a) - Take Frankenlift apart -
remove lower spacer, reinstall OEM top plate
assemble

you now have an OME lift.

gmoney2626 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:04 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

1 a) - Take Frankenlift apart -
remove lower spacer, reinstall OEM top plate
assemble

you now have an OME lift.

Is that what you run?

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:07 pm

gmoney2626 wrote:

I really wish that I would have thought to turn the front tires and check for binding just after the lift was installed.

That's too bad but there was probably other things on your mind. Ahh, reminiscing about my experience. After i first put the lift on came a priceless feeling of both bliss and wonder about what the hell did i just get myself into when i first drive it down the road. :lol:

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:58 am

gmoney2626 wrote:

Is that what you run?

Yes - but I started with Daystar front (they didn't have OME springs for a CRD in 05)
and then upgraded when OME790's came out.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:17 am

gmoney2626 wrote:

I was wondering the same thing. Do you happen to know how much the upper control arm should push out the top of the rim from stock? Is it a 1/4 to 1/2"? My concern is that it will be anywhere between 1/16" TO 1/4" and I may need just a little bit more to stop the binding and still be screwed.

Not exactly, IIRC I could put 2 fingers between the UCA and the stock strut with wheels on the ground.

gmoney2626 wrote:

I was thinking that if I jack up the car and put a stand under the LCA, take of the tire, unbolt the UBJ, take a hammer and bang the knuckle the ball joint is in and not the UCA or UBJ this should free up (this is how we broke it free during the lift install. Then I feel I should be able to push up the old UCA, unbolt from the frame and install the new UCA. What is not clear to me at this point is how easy it will be to get the UBJ bolted back to the knuckle now that have to move the top of the knuckle further out from the position it is currently in. Is that flexible to the limit of the LBJ and axle shaft at that point?

Yes. The whole thing can move a huge amount on the LBJ only. Here's a pic of TJKJ's with the UCA of (and a blown CV but that had nothing to do with his lift)

And the way you discribe how you want to change the UCA is ok by me.

gmoney2626 wrote:

1. Modify the lift to lower the car - unknown labor cost

2. Get UCA and SEE if that corrects the problem - about another $400 w/o labor and hope I can successfully do this myself.

You are already talking to Marlin at JBA right? Ask him if you can try a set of (a used one or what ever) he may have laying around. If it works you buy the new GEN 4.5. If it doesn't you'll only loose shipping costs.

If al else fails, either get rid of the front spacer or have it cut to a lower size. Maybe Quinn can help you on that one, send the complete struts back to Big Bear?

gmoney2626 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:02 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Not exactly, IIRC I could put 2 fingers between the UCA and the stock strut with wheels on the ground.

Is this the knuckle where the ball joint is? If so, you can could get two fingers between the knuckle and the bottom bump stop? I think I only have a quarter to half inch.

tonycrd wrote:

You are already talking to Marlin at JBA right? Ask him if you can try a set of (a used one or what ever) he may have laying around. If it works you buy the new GEN 4.5. If it doesn't you'll only loose shipping costs.

I thought about that on Friday but couldnt get him on the phone. I played with it some more today and Quinn still wonders if the NAPA CVs are the same length as the stock ones. The four wheel shop didnt measure before they put them in. Quinn had a guy in the shop while I was on the phone with him that bought NAPA CVs and they were 1/2" longer then stock when fully compressed and side by side. The customer ended up rebuilding his stock ones.

Something else Marlin had me do was measure from the center of the wheel to the top of the fender flare. We discussed that method of measuring verses ground to pinch weld... in any case my front end is 22 1/2" and the rear end is 21 1/2" showing the front end is an inch higher then the rear....while the car measurement from the ground to the pinch weld is 17" all around showing the car is level. How the heck does that happen?

Today I kicked the bottom of the tires out until I didnt bind the CVs and took the car to 2 different locations that looked as level as I could get it and the measurements were the same. Weird.......

daspes · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:30 pm

gmoney2626 wrote:

Something else Marlin had me do was measure from the center of the wheel to the top of the fender flare. We discussed that method of measuring verses ground to pinch weld... in any case my front end is 22 1/2" and the rear end is 21 1/2" showing the front end is an inch higher then the rear....while the car measurement from the ground to the pinch weld is 17" all around showing the car is level. How the heck does that happen?

Today I kicked the bottom of the tires out until I didnt bind the CVs and took the car to 2 different locations that looked as level as I could get it and the measurements were the same. Weird.......

The flraes in the front are mounted higher than the ones in the rear. For consistency, you should measure from the center of the hub to the flare, ground to pinch weld will be different from KJ to KJ due to different sizes of tires.

gmoney2626 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:51 pm

tonycrd wrote:

Yes. The whole thing can move a huge amount on the LBJ only. Here's a pic of TJKJ's with the UCA of (and a blown CV but that had nothing to do with his lift)

And the way you discribe how you want to change the UCA is ok by me.

Were you involved with removing the axle assembly? How hard was it to pop it in and out of the differential?

KJ Willy · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:36 pm

Gmoney, any updates? I have been out to sea so I haven't been able to help out.
If you need an extra hand and or a KJ with same lift but with Als arms I will be available Sunday to come over.
I have duty tomorrow, so it would have to be Sunday.

gmoney2626 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:26 pm

KJ Willy wrote:

Gmoney, any updates? I have been out to sea so I haven't been able to help out.
If you need an extra hand and or a KJ with same lift but with Als arms I will be available Sunday to come over.
I have duty tomorrow, so it would have to be Sunday.

KJ Willy,

I sent you a PM

For everyone else here is the update as of this evening.

I just got done installing new axle shaft assemblies from JeepinbyAl (unshaved) and I installed his UCAs. When I took the passenger side apart I noticed that the differential seal was damaged and had to replace it. Decided to get this from the dealer and found out it was on national back order and had to search the area for anyone with it on the shelf. I finally had all the parts Friday to put everything back together, took the day off and finished it up.

Drivers side at full droop experienced no binding but the passenger side still had a slight bind but no where near as much as it did before. I could turn the wheel 3/4 of a turn before I would feel hesitation then I would feel two slight bumps of hesitation and then be able to turn it 3/4 again. If I jacked up the LCA 1/2" this would all go away.

I spoke with Marlin at JeepinbyAl and we discussed this for a bit and he thought that for me and the applications I was going to use the vehicle for it wouldnt be a problem. He said that the only time I would experience that bind is if the passenger wheel would leave the ground (like rock climbing and severe off road experiences).

I took the car for a test drive today and when the suspension articulates sometimes I hear a clunk on the passenger side like something is loose or something is hitting. This clunk will happen depending on how fast I let the suspension articulate. (hit an inclined driveway at 10mph it will clunk ..... go over it slowly it wont, speed bump at 10mph it clunks ... going over it slowly it wont) I did clear out the A arm pockets, I let the suspension sit on the tires prior to torque and torqued all bolts to the KJ service manual specs.

The tires dont seem to be too far out of alignment, I did put an angle finder on them and they were only a couple of degrees off if that. I am going to take it to the shop tomorrow to get it aligned but I am not sure that will make that noise go away.

When I was buying tools for the job I decided to buy an angle finder to use on the shafts to provide that feedback for everyone but its too big to fit in the area of the axle shafts.... oh well I tried.

CV Angles with Frankenlift

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