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Air Bags in Liberty
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Author:  spyder [ Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Air Bags in Liberty
I'm not referring to your mother-in-law in the passenger seat, I'm talking about air suspensions. I have recently installed some Coil-Rite Air Bags in my rear suspension to help with towing as well as other issues. I'm wondering if anyone else has any experience with this type of modification. I did a quick search for related topic and didn't see anything. If I missed a thread let me know.

My Dodge Dakota (1992) has had air bags installed for over 12 years and I've been very happy with the entire set up. But this is a bit new since I've never tried this type of thing on a Jeep.

To be honest, a couple of my major pet peeves with the Liberty has been the capacity of the rear springs and the type of tires the chose to install. For starters, when I head into the back country for more than just a day trip I need to carry a fair amount of gear. Ignoring the recovery equipment I have camping gear, water and even extra gas, just to touch the surface. All this stuff is heavy and from my experience the Liberty just isn't well set up to handle that extra weight. Then I add in my wood cutting trips with a trailer and I'm very concerned that the Liberty suspension just isn't capable of handling these kinds of loads. I'm not worried about power, I seem to have plenty of that, it's hauling the trailers and extra gear I may want or need. For that reason I went ahead and installed the air bags.

The tires are the other problem. For the first year and a half after buying the Liberty I drove it to, and all around, the mine I work for. This is pretty heavy duty work. I encounter large rocks, major mud issues, in a heavy duty construction environment and those tires just weren't adequate for the task. But that's another story and another thread so let's stick to the subject at hand. Give me your thoughts on the Liberty suspension (not talking about lifts, just capacity), what you think about air bags, and what other things can be done to improve the Liberty's load carrying capacity.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Will the airbags allow for full flex?
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm, I always thought the libby held weight really well. Remember, the weight capacity is only something like 1050lbs. That not really that much when you consider that's with people. Ive had alot of crap in my jeep and my OME HD coils seem to hold up really good too. :wink:

Do you have any pics of your setup? Where is the pump and all that?
Author:  NJ KJ [ Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
i have an ome hevy duty lift for my crd and never had a problem with towing and stuff like that and ive kinda pushed the limits too.... i have a farm and tow some pretty big tractors (in all honesty id bet nobody tows any where as much as i do with this jeep and weight, i pull the same trailers that i use with my 3500 cummings) and stuff with it and it sits perfict with the hevy duty rear coils...
here is a shot pulling my hot rod....
Image
and my tractor that i pull around... (this is my meduim sized tractor.... it weighs 9k lbs with the backhoe and the loader.... obvously i cant pull that with my kj..... when have the loader and the hoe off it drops to about 4500lbs plus the weight of the trailer... 1200lbs...)
Image
it pulls it with out problems and sits square an does not squat in tha back... just put a good break controoler and ur set....
Author:  spyder [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I find your replies quite interesting. Maybe I have something not quite right with my Libby that I should talk to the dealer about. Last year I took it scouting in the hills before hunting a couple of times. We had 4 people in the Liberty, my portable winch, assorted recovery equipment (chains, hilift, tow straps, etc.) which weighs about 60 pounds, along with some water, food, sleeping bags, rifles, binoculars and all that normal hunting paraphenalia, and I was bottoming out regularly unless I kept the speed below 35 mph. I would estimate that we were well within the 1,054 pound limit. Seven hundred pounds for people and 300 to 400 for gear and equipment. Fully loaded without a doubt, but not overloaded.

The roads were not abnormally rough. They were your normal back-country Nevada gravel roads with some washboarding and the occasional swale or dip. Obviously, when we got onto the trails the travel speeds were much lower than 35 mph and I didn't notice any bottoming out or any banging noises out of the rear unless I got really off camber in some wash out or creek crossing. When you stand off a ways and look back at the Liberty it has a noticeable sag in the rear end with all that gear loaded. I've owned Willys Jeeps, CJs and XJs and never had this same problem and all of those vehicles were loaded down at some point or another with just as much and more. I've had all that gear in the XJ and three deer stacked on my makeshift plywood platform hanging on the rear receiver hitch, and never bottomed out like that. And it noticeable sagged in the rear as well.

Anyway, if any of you can think of something else I can check out, let me know.

The noise I get from the rear is a very heavy "thump", not a metallic banging, and the suspension travel just stops, just as if the rear axle had hit the rubber bump stops. The shock absorbers seem to handle things well, I don't feel any out-of-control skipping when I run the washboards at 40 to 50 mph. I've always assumed that the Liberty's rear springs were not up to the loads and that was normal for this type of vehicle. As I intend to haul a trailer with this rig for wood cutting, and the trailer will be pretty heavily loaded from time to time, I was pretty certain that the rear springs would not be able to handle the weight.

As for articulation, I'll let you guys know as I get more experience with this one. I've taken my Dodge Dakota with the same type of bags into some pretty rough country and not noticed that they severely limited the articulation in the rear end. Since the Dakota is a 2 wheel drive truck with a locker in the rear, I absolutely have to have enough articulation to keep at least one of those wheels in contact with the trail or I'm hauling winch cable. I've only had to do that twice in 12 years, once when I was pushing snow with the front bumper and once when the rear wheels were sitting on ice. But, when I get it out I'll check it out and let you know.

Price is pretty reasonable, you can get them for $80 and another $10 in shipping. The install is fairly straight-forward and took about 2 hours to do. The hardest part is drilling the hole in the top spring mount to thread the air line through. I'm not a professional mechanic, just 30 years experience under a shade tree, so some of you could probably install them even quicker.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm, if you think the cherokee held the weight better, then something is wrong with your springs. The cherokees are known to sag with no weight at all in them. Im sure the airbags will fix you up though.

Also, the springs are not the only thing that keeps the rear from bottoming out on bumps, the shocks play a big role also. Maybe you have a bad shock or something? Ive had about 300lbs on a rear hitch carrier and didnt notice a bit of sag with my omes'. :wink:
Author:  moose [ Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
i had about 1000# in the libby when jeepjeepster, eddo & i went to slade, ky. both those guys had lifts, so i wont compare to them, but i had a few spots where i told everyone to get out to give me an extra inch going over some big rocks. however, the other 99.9% of the trail, they rode & we had no problems. i'm wondering if you have bad springs.

I have used timbrens, which are rubber donuts that replace the bump stops. they are also a good option (only had them on a ram 1500 and a grand caravan though).
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
moose wrote:
i had about 1000# in the libby when jeepjeepster, eddo & i went to slade, ky. both those guys had lifts, so i wont compare to them, but i had a few spots where i told everyone to get out to give me an extra inch going over some big rocks. however, the other 99.9% of the trail, they rode & we had no problems. i'm wondering if you have bad springs.

I have used timbrens, which are rubber donuts that replace the bump stops. they are also a good option (only had them on a ram 1500 and a grand caravan though).


Whats this about moose? Where did you get those things?
Your sig made me laugh, "Kill esp!"

Why does it say, later, "TJ?" Your not leaving us are you? :shock:
Author:  moose [ Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
moose wrote:
i had about 1000# in the libby when jeepjeepster, eddo & i went to slade, ky. both those guys had lifts, so i wont compare to them, but i had a few spots where i told everyone to get out to give me an extra inch going over some big rocks. however, the other 99.9% of the trail, they rode & we had no problems. i'm wondering if you have bad springs.

I have used timbrens, which are rubber donuts that replace the bump stops. they are also a good option (only had them on a ram 1500 and a grand caravan though).


Whats this about moose? Where did you get those things?
Your sig made me laugh, "Kill esp!"

Why does it say, later, "TJ?" Your not leaving us are you? :shock:


1. i thought it was about tail squat in the KJ, and even with the 1000# my libby doesn't squat like his does. :)

2. trucksprings.com has them. i'm sure they will limit the travel up into the wheel well, but <gasp> not everything is about wheeling on rocks <forgive me libby for i have sinned>.

3. KILL ESP!!! ESP is PURE EVIL in my 6spd. As long as I hit the button I'm fine; when I forget, it sux. (i guess it's programmed correctly for the automatics...)

4. see #3. yes, it's that bad. i'm not going to put much else into her until DCX puts out a fix. i just hope i don't get mad and trade her in first.
Author:  rs4mtnitro [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
The last time I want to the sand dunes I pulled the abs pump fuse and all was well.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
moose wrote:

Whats this about moose? Where did you get those things?
Your sig made me laugh, "Kill esp!"

Why does it say, later, "TJ?" Your not leaving us are you? :shock:


1. i thought it was about tail squat in the KJ, and even with the 1000# my libby doesn't squat like his does. :)

2. trucksprings.com has them. i'm sure they will limit the travel up into the wheel well, but <gasp> not everything is about wheeling on rocks <forgive me libby for i have sinned>.

3. KILL ESP!!! ESP is PURE EVIL in my 6spd. As long as I hit the button I'm fine; when I forget, it sux. (i guess it's programmed correctly for the automatics...)

4. see #3. yes, it's that bad. i'm not going to put much else into her until DCX puts out a fix. i just hope i don't get mad and trade her in first.


Yea, it was about weight but I was talking about the bumpstops. :wink: Guess I should of said that. Why do you need them? I had to get some extended ones so my rear tires didnt tear my fenders off, but why would you need them? :?
Author:  moose [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
Jeepjeepster wrote:
moose wrote:

Whats this about moose? Where did you get those things?
Your sig made me laugh, "Kill esp!"

Why does it say, later, "TJ?" Your not leaving us are you? :shock:


1. i thought it was about tail squat in the KJ, and even with the 1000# my libby doesn't squat like his does. :)

2. trucksprings.com has them. i'm sure they will limit the travel up into the wheel well, but <gasp> not everything is about wheeling on rocks <forgive me libby for i have sinned>.

3. KILL ESP!!! ESP is PURE EVIL in my 6spd. As long as I hit the button I'm fine; when I forget, it sux. (i guess it's programmed correctly for the automatics...)

4. see #3. yes, it's that bad. i'm not going to put much else into her until DCX puts out a fix. i just hope i don't get mad and trade her in first.


Yea, it was about weight but I was talking about the bumpstops. :wink: Guess I should of said that. Why do you need them? I had to get some extended ones so my rear tires didnt tear my fenders off, but why would you need them? :?


On my dad's Ram, they were used for RV towing so he wouldn't have to get a 2500. On the Grand Caravan, it leveled out the rear squat when you put in more than 2 kids in the back. I don't have them for the KJ yet, my popup camper is only 2500#, and tounge weight is only about 150# if I pack it right. I was just trying to illustrate an alternative to the air bags that seems to work well too.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ahh, I thought you already had them.


Back on subject!! :lol:
Author:  desertrat [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Spyder - I also installed air lift bags for my Jeep Liberty -- I went with the AirLift 1000 and am very happy with them. As a camping enthusiast, I load my jeep up with lots of camping gear and pull a 3000 lb off-road popup camper, so the Airlift 1000 has been great. I tried hauling things without the air bags, but experienced more rear sag than I wanted. With the air bags, I now maintain an even load-level. They work great and would highly recommend them to others with the same problem.

Before going with the air bags, I spent quite a bit of time researching whether heavier springs were available for the rear of the Liberty without any success. When I don't have the vehicle loaded, I can hardly tell they are back there as the vehicle really doesn't ride any different. Before I load up with a heavy load, I just add a bit more air into the bags and the load remains stable and even, even when off-roading.
Author:  Guyute1210 [ Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Call All-J's (www.boulderbars.com) and talk to Quinn. I think the OME HD springs will probably work and with your airbags will probably keep you level and you will probably get what you are looking for, plus 1.5" lift.
Author:  Matt400 [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Anyone try these:
http://www.timbren.com/timbren-applicat ... s/JRL4.pdf

Maybe they would carry loads better and also keep big meats from stuffing too far.
Author:  chefdab [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Speleorelic installed air bags in his rear springs because he tows a pop-up trailer a lot. He still wheels the KJ and I don't think he really lost any articulation. If he did, it is very little. Last time I spoke to him the air bags were holding up just fine.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Mon Dec 04, 2006 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Im getting these.. Eddo already has them and they work perfect. They let the rear flex like it would.. I keep an 80lb sub in the back and with all of my offroad stuff which I keep in there.. Thats around 100lbs in there ALL the time.. The springs are probably going to sag if i dont do something..

Air suspension
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