I am considering the KJ for my next vehicle. I been looking at the new JK unlimited but with the rebates on the KJ I am considering it also. I have to get something with 4dr's as I am having a baby in march. I just have a few questions on the KJ.

How are these off road, how much lift do you need to run 31's, How are they for interior space (with a car seat), How are they on reliablitity, and how is the 3.7L engine for power on the road?

1. They're great off-road. Not as good as a modified JK Unlimited would be, for sure.

2. 2.5" is what most people run. Until the mythical (snowman, bigfoot?) Superlift to be shown on April 1st 2007. No, really.

3. I have two carseats in mine. Two little monkeys and they never complained about long trips.

4. Reliability. Haven't had my two KJ's ('03 and '05) in for major service (except the LBJ, but that's factory recall). Out of pocket expenses: minimal, oil changes and stuff. All other work done under warranty.

5. 3.7L engine ... well, it kicks booty on the 2WD in my wife's KJ On the 4x4 with extra gear it can feel a little pokey at times.

Another kind of measure you might want to look into is "survivability" --- ask around or look around the net for stories of how people survive accidents in a KJ. Some of our members here have personal experience with this.

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DIRTY KJ :: flickr photostream
"Primitive life is very common and intelligent life is fairly rare ... some would say it has yet to occur on Earth" --- Stephen Hawking

As far as space goes it's better than an escape, vue or other vehicles in it's class.

As far as power goes, it's adequate. It's pretty good around town, but it's very reluctant to kick down out of overdrive on the freeway which can make it feel slower than it really is.

Reliability has been average. I've had it in the shop several times for ball joints. I had some transmission problems early on (delayed engagement, harsh downshifts, etc).

If you said you weren't going to offroad it, I would say that an Vue or Escape are more refined. The Vue has the Honda engine that has awesome power and is probably more reliable. The escape has less horsepower but the trans is much better and makes it feel more responsive. Both are lighter and have independant rear suspensions giving them better on-road handling. But because you want to wheel, this disqualifies both of them.

If you didn't have to carry car seats, the toyota FJ cruiser is probably a much better choice for wheeling. But the suicide rear doors don't really lend themselves to always loading the kids up. The FJ also has better power than the KJ.

See what kind of deals you can get on an H3 (although they are underpowered) or a Nissan X-terra. They would also be good fits for your requirements if the prices were right.

I would be looking at a 4x4 model. not sure on sport or limited. I did look at one that had the offroad renegade type package with the roof mounted lights, and the offroad fog lights on the bumper. I also did find a sport with a 6 spd in it too. I would not be doing too much off roading in it just a few times a year.

There is a guy around the forum 'MUTT' that has 3 car seats in the back of a KJ no problem, except for the noise and dirtiness of the 3 inhabitants of the said car seats...but haven't seen him around lately, i think he posted pics of the setup in the pic section somewhere...

As for the survivability of a KJ...I have some experience in that department after falling asleep late one night going home...hit a guard rail at about 50mph+ on the highway...walked away with a totalled jeep and a badly bruised right leg and soar shoulder from the seatbelt, everything else was fine with me....

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

darn, that crash looks rough.. nice that you did not get too hurt in the deal.

I really like the new JK, but the price keeps steering me towards the KJ. I know the JK has more room but there is no rebates on it now and probably not for a while... I am just trying to compare the two and see what others opinions are on the two. I know I am not really comparing the same types of vehicle since the JK is softtop and more utilitarian the the KJ.

I love the KJ in every way possible. I feel like alittle kid b/c when I do get to drive it.. Since Im at school all week, I do not get to drive it as much as I would like..

The kj seems to be fairly reliable. Most of us offroad them and have very little problems out of them. If you get into hardcore offroad, you will have problems with the front diff. If you take it nice and easy, it will be fine though..

With a lift, skids, sliders, and maybe a locker in the back, you will be amazed where the little jeep will go..

A 2.5in lift will allow you to run 245/75/16 tires which is the most popular size around here. You may need to do alittle trimming though.. Nothing major..

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LOST KJ'S
Where are you going???
Current Jeep: 2004 Jeep Liberty
-Atlantic Blue
-Air Ride Rear Suspension ; OME/Rustys Lift ; Powertrax Locker ; Moog Lower Ball-Joints ; 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander A/T-S's on MOABS ; Flowmaster 50 SUV
Lost #007082
http://www.cardomain.com/id/jeepjeepster

KJ will be quieter and smoother ride on road. I thought it was Moose that had the three car seats in the back. Maybe it was Mutt. Starts with an "M" at least. If he is fine with three in the rear, then it must be fine for the rugrats. I suppose a quieter SUV would seem to make the noise of babies seem louder so perhaps the JK is a better choice...LOL!

The KJ seems to have real world super crash survivability. With the strength of the vehicle (and its overall weight), it seems to handle crashes better. My friend back in Ohio (he's a police officer), said he has seen a KJ after it slammed into a utility pole and the driver walked away and the KJ was not heavily damaged.

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New KJ Gear - Desert Armor Flak

2004 Renegade Light Khaki - 4" JBA Lift - Rock Lizard Products: Komodo Dragon Rear Bumper, Prototype Winch-mount Front Bumper, Super Skink Sliders - All J's Super Tranny Skid II - 31" Firestone Destination AT's on Moab wheels - Cobra 75W CB w/ stock Antenna mod

[b]Retired, US Military

The KJs are rugged little vehicles. My sport was my first vehicle and I'm very happy w/ my purchase. There is more than enough room for me and the MPG rating is ok...could be a bit better but really not too bad for the 3.7 (14-17MPG). I find the KJ's small size handy at times...and I like the manueverability (think I spelled it right) offroad and onroad. In 4WD...these little SUVs can make it through a lot. After my first wheeling experience...the KJ really earned itself. Besides the LBJ recall...there really aren't too many other issues w/ this Jeep. I had a problem w/ a cracked radiator not long ago (others have had this problem w/ older KJs)...but mine is also an 02' and has 80K logged. This is the first Daimler-Chrysler and Jeep Vehicle in our family, and while it's mine..I made the decision to go to the KJ.

The JK is one sweet Jeep...and it may suit you better but if affordability is a big decision maker...maybe the KJ is the way to go. Any way you go I'm pretty sure the Jeep won't let you down.

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02' Frankenlifted White Sport on 31" TrXus M/Ts

89' 2 Dr. Khaki XJ- Waggy 44's, 4.88s, 35's, 3-link on 5.5" coils.

Thats mutt Tokyojoe. Moose's kids are not that young..

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LOST KJ'S
Where are you going???
Current Jeep: 2004 Jeep Liberty
-Atlantic Blue
-Air Ride Rear Suspension ; OME/Rustys Lift ; Powertrax Locker ; Moog Lower Ball-Joints ; 245/70/16 Yokohama Geolander A/T-S's on MOABS ; Flowmaster 50 SUV
Lost #007082
http://www.cardomain.com/id/jeepjeepster

I'm on my 2nd KJ (sold the first KJ 2wd to my dad so i could get a 4x4 )

Knowing me i'll probably get an 07' KJ next year when they really start pricing to sell. How ever, I'll proably get a 2wd again because of my long drive to work and really don't need a 4x4. It's fun though.

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Ray's Renegade
L.O.S.T # RP052495
Light Khaki 2005 Renegade 4x4
28D package (full skids)
Trailer tow group
Auto tranny
Trac-Loc
Jeep seat covers
K&N air filter
Moog K3199 LBJs
Frankenlift
Al's upper A arms
Goodyear wrangler silent armor
255/70-16

I have a '03 KJ never had a lick of trouble LBJ recall done but mech ,who is related to me, said it was not needed
we wheel the ,stock until next week, KJ about 8-10 times a year on some good trails no issues
I am active with 2 local clubs who built a "test track" at the local jeep dealer
It is mostly just a bunch of dirt hils with some off camber and 1 realy steep hill and some pcs of broken concrete for rocks we built it using our KJ as the "minimum standard" and the new unlimited rubicons have more trouble on it than I do with our stock KJ
Granted that I know it better than almost any body a RUBICON should make it look easy the 2 door no problem but the 4 door tends to get hung up just as easy if not more than our KJ

The 3.7 has plenty of power on a stock KJ. Put 31" tires on it and you will really notice a drop in torque however, put those e-load MTRs on there and you will really really notice it. I have no trouble with the baby carseat etc. in my KJ. The rear doors are small but the back seat area is plenty roomy.

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Early '02 Limited, Steel Blue, White Guts

If I were to look into a used KJ is there a particular year that is better than another? and if so why?

I am still looking at an 07 because of the rebates but was thinking yesterday that maybe a used one would be the better way to go, at least it would be alot cheaper. I looked at them a little on the autotrader.com and seen used one from around 9000 up to 26000. I was thinking maybe around 15000 for a used one

IMHO, If I were you, I'd go with the Unlimited. I think the only downside would be that it's a first year production. If you do some research you'll find the KJ depreciates considerably. I sure wouldn't buy one new. Whatever you save price wise, remember you'll have to spend it on the lift and tires.

For street and mild offroading, the KJ is great. For lifting and modifying, moderate and up wheeling, I'd say the JK is the way to go. If the JK was around when I traded in my XJ, I would've driven off with it instead. Having a family myself, the only downside I saw with the Wrangler back then was the lack of head rests in the rear bench seat. Jeep has since addressed that concern so I would feel comfortable having my kids back there.

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Failure is not an option!

Another thing to look out for with the recent KJs..06 and 07 I believe, is I don't think there is the 7/70 warranty available for those rigs...at least i know I don't have it on my 06...

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Had 2005 KJ Rocky Mnt. Edition (destroyed)
Had 2006 KJ Sport 4x4
Have 2007 JK 4-dr Sahara 4x4 (tow package so stock 4.10s!!)
AEV 3.5" RS Lift; Schrockworks FR bumper and Warn 9.5ti winch; Cobra 75 CB; Rigid 50" LED light bar; Adventure Trailers (AT Overland) JK Kitchen setup in the cargo area.
Southern L.O.S.T. # 236487

whats the price of a lift for a KJ.. I know on a JK I would need 500 for the 3" lift, around 700 for the wheels I liked and another 1200 or 1500 for tires.

For the KJ I was thinking of getting some used rubicon wheels so that would be around 1000 I think.

I started thinking maybe used because its cheaper for one, but I like the older style front end better also and wanting to add a lift and tires and possibly a cargo rack and bumper. I would have more money for that with a used one and could possibly get a limited model for the nicer interior features. I am kind of scared to get a first year unlimited, I had a first year colorado and was in the shop about 20 times in 1.5years. I dont want to spend another 25000 grand and have to deal with that crap again. It did not cost anything since there was a warranty but just a hassle and annoyance.

Two car seats fit fine in the KJ. If you put three in there, you'll probably have to get a specific model of seat so they'll fit. The JK has a little more room, but not enough to make that the deciding factor. Get the JK Unlimited if you'll be happy with just that (no mods). Get a KJ if you want to personalize it. Get a used one if you want to personalize it more.

Here's a high-level recap of the KJs life-span.

Front ends: They changed the KJ front-end in 05, so get an 04 if you like that older shape. The 05 and 06 Renegades have a flat hood that looks pretty cool. That's about all that's changed (major) on the front end of the trucks through the life of the model.

Exteriors: Sports and Renegades have black plastic fender flares and Limiteds have body-color fender flares. Renegades have "rivet" points in the flares. There are some off-shoot models that combine body-color bits with black bits, but those are the basic three models of the KJ. The Sport and Limited have the same roof rack rails, but the Sport's are black and the Limited's are chrome. The Renegade has thicker roof rack bars, but they are rated to hold less weight (go figure). The Renegade will most likely have a 4 light bar on the roof. A basket, or "Tupperware" thingy was available for the Renegade. Not sure of the specs or usability of this item...I see a lot of them for sale. The Renegade is not available in 07.

Engines: There have been three engines in the KJ; 2.4l 4 cyl., 3.7l V6, and 2.8l 4-cyl turbo diesel (CRD = Common Rail Diesel). There was also a 2.5l CRD available in Europe and Australia, but was never available here. The 2.4l 4 cyl was the base motor from 02 through 05. In 06 they dropped this engine altogether due to low sales volume. The 3.7l was an available option (included with some trim packages) from 02 through 05. It is now the base motor for the KJ. The CRD was only put into the 05 and 06 Sport and Limited (in America). It is not available in the 07 models.

Interiors: There hasn't been much change in the interiors over the span of the KJ. In 05 (or maybe 04) an OS panic bar was added on the dashboard in front of the passenger. My wife loves that thing. The power window controls apparently switched a bit in 04 or 05. The window controls are on the center console in a 2+2 layout. On earlier models, the front window switches were the furthest back, and the back window switches were the furthest forward. In 05 (or maybe 04) the swapped these so the front window switches are the furthest forward and the rear window switches are the furthest back. The seats in the 05 and up also fold "flat." I put that in quotes because they are still not completely flat, but apparently they are MUCH flatter than the 02-04 models.

Mech: The early 02s sat 2" higher. If you're putting a lift on, I wouldn't consider this when buying...you're going to replace all the parts that made it 2" higher anyway. The 02-03 had drum brakes in the rear and discs in the front. I believe they put discs all around in 04. I know that the 05s have 4 wheel discs. The 06s and 07s have ESP traction control. Manual transmissions are hard to come by. They were not available on CRDs (in America). If I remember correctly, in 05 you could get a 6-speed manual mated to the 3.7l V6.

I think that's the major points. There have been some transmission changes over the years, but I'll let someone who has more knowledge touch on those.

Good luck in your search.

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_______________________DogDomain_______________________

Blacklock, it's really gonna have to be up to you and the Mrs. Based on your above statement I figured (1) you'll either want to utilize your vehicle offroad from time to time or (2) you like the more aggressive look. Go to the dealer and take a good, hard look, at both. Both of you should test drive it and check out the rear seat for comfort and accessibility. Remember, installing a lift and larger tires will be counter productive if your looking for a vehicle with four doors that'll make it easy for sticking your newborn in/out of the car seat. It'll be even more difficult for your wife. Think long and hard before signing up for 5 years (average) of payments. Both vehicles are good, but are better in certain areas. Looks, creature comforts, interior noise, offroad capabilities, height, etc. Decide what you really need vs. what you yourself desire. Oh, and congrats!

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Failure is not an option!

wife was not to into the JK idea, she did not like the TJ too much. I can get a employee discount on GM products but they dont really have anything I like.. Wife likes the Equinox or Torrent but I am not really into them and are not at all offroad vehicles. She seemed okay when I mentioned a KJ too her and she knows I plan a lift on either the JK or KJ.