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Sway Bar End Link Damage
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22641		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  sacher [ Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Sway Bar End Link Damage
I've recently had to replace front sway bar end links due to metal on metal contact.

I have read the posts related to the lubricant issue and the torque settings related to the clunking. Has anyone had any issues with contact damage? Could lubricating have prevented the damage? Now that I'm on a new set, I want to try to prevent future damage.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Did the bushings just deteriorate? I usually hit mine with some silicone spray when Im under there.. They still look like new.. :)
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Haven't had a sway bar for almost a week now. Can't decide if I want to put it back or not, now.
Author:  RespectMyLibertay [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Dje Ryu wrote:
Haven't had a sway bar for almost a week now. Can't decide if I want to put it back or not, now.


You do :D All that swaying up front, on-road and off, can wack out your alignment real quick. Go try to get an alignment without your front swaybar...shops say they can't do one without it! I think it can also put excess wear on your front suspension components, like hubs and control arm bushings, and even give you excess tire wear.
Author:  DaveKJ02 [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:30 am ]
Post subject: 
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
You do :D All that swaying up front, on-road and off, can wack out your alignment real quick. Go try to get an alignment without your front swaybar...shops say they can't do one without it! I think it can also put excess wear on your front suspension components, like hubs and control arm bushings, and even give you excess tire wear.


Thats not true. Why did you say that?
Author:  CD [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Dje Ryu

Haven't had a sway bar for almost a week now. Can't decide if I want to put it back or not, now.


:shock: I wouldn't want to swerve to avoid something at speed without my swaybar on, could windup in all sorts of trouble.
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
I've heard all the arguments before. I took it off last week, a couple days before the 4X4 competition that I was in. I've intentionally swerved and stuff at around 25-30mph to see what it is like. It's a little softer but, it still doesn't roll as much as a lot of the vehicles I've had in the past. Plus, I don't drive above 62mph, ever and anyone who's ridden in my passenger seat will tell you that I'm about the safest driver they've seen.

I don't see how not having a sway bar would affect the ability to align the tires, though. :?:
Author:  sleeve84028 [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
My opinion is that driving without the sway bar is like driving without your seat belt buckled... Try that swerve manuver at a speed greater than 55MPH and tell me how it turns out for you and then we can talk.
Author:  sacher [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeepjeepster wrote:
Did the bushings just deteriorate? I usually hit mine with some silicone spray when Im under there.. They still look like new.. :)


Bushings do appear deteriorated and cracked, especially on passenger side. I'll keep some silicone spray on and give that a try. Thanks!
Author:  RespectMyLibertay [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
DaveKJ02 wrote:
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
You do :D All that swaying up front, on-road and off, can wack out your alignment real quick. Go try to get an alignment without your front swaybar...shops say they can't do one without it! I think it can also put excess wear on your front suspension components, like hubs and control arm bushings, and even give you excess tire wear.


Thats not true. Why did you say that?


It's true according to the 3 places I've taken my KJ to for an alignment. Two have refused to do any alignment without my front swaybar. The other didn't mention anything probably because I had it on. I had a chat with the alignment guys at each location and each say, at a minimum, I'm going to see more tire wear without my front swaybar on-road. They always give me a "this isn't a wrangler" talk about how it's IFS and that means the front tires can wear like crazy even after proper alignment, compared to a SFA-rig with crap alignment. The simple fact that SFA-rig has two tires connect by a solid tube means it can't wear it's tires as bad as an IFS rig can. That's just what they said...and I beleive it. You don't have to. I'm not so sure about the hubs and control arm bushings...but if you think about it, it's possible. If you rock-crawled every day without your swaybars, you'd see mad flex 24/7 and that would likely increase wear to something. It's not like suspension components last forever, and using them more and harder (no front swaybar) WILL wear something.
I wheel and drive around town without my front swaybar still. I just wanted to let people know that they might get a refusal to do any alignment without their fronts on. I could maybe just be dealing with a bunch of airheads, but two shops insisted they were 100% serious about needing that swaybar up front. I also just wanted people to know that the excess travel you see without your front swaybar will increase component wear by some degree, so don't be surprised if you have to replace something sooner than expected.
Author:  DaveKJ02 [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you believe everything a "professional mechanic" will tell you, you'll be broke faster than you can say "BS". If you know whats involved with an alignment, you'd realize the swaybar has nothing to do with the adjustments. I'm not saying a shop wont do one without it but propogating the info as "fact" when you rely on others that are making money on what you fall for is irresponsible.

If you wheel your rig, the last worry would be how much faster your bushings wear because of all the "flexing" our KJs do. Your rig will pay more elsewhere. If you're driving onroad without it, well, that explains a lot more than I want to get into. I'll leave that part to Darwin.
Author:  Guest [ Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
DaveKJ02 wrote:
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
You do :D All that swaying up front, on-road and off, can wack out your alignment real quick. Go try to get an alignment without your front swaybar...shops say they can't do one without it! I think it can also put excess wear on your front suspension components, like hubs and control arm bushings, and even give you excess tire wear.


Thats not true. Why did you say that?


It's true according to the 3 places I've taken my KJ to for an alignment. Two have refused to do any alignment without my front swaybar. The other didn't mention anything probably because I had it on. I had a chat with the alignment guys at each location and each say, at a minimum, I'm going to see more tire wear without my front swaybar on-road. They always give me a "this isn't a wrangler" talk about how it's IFS and that means the front tires can wear like crazy even after proper alignment, compared to a SFA-rig with crap alignment. The simple fact that SFA-rig has two tires connect by a solid tube means it can't wear it's tires as bad as an IFS rig can. That's just what they said...and I beleive it. You don't have to. I'm not so sure about the hubs and control arm bushings...but if you think about it, it's possible. If you rock-crawled every day without your swaybars, you'd see mad flex 24/7 and that would likely increase wear to something. It's not like suspension components last forever, and using them more and harder (no front swaybar) WILL wear something.
I wheel and drive around town without my front swaybar still. I just wanted to let people know that they might get a refusal to do any alignment without their fronts on. I could maybe just be dealing with a bunch of airheads, but two shops insisted they were 100% serious about needing that swaybar up front. I also just wanted people to know that the excess travel you see without your front swaybar will increase component wear by some degree, so don't be surprised if you have to replace something sooner than expected.


lack of a front swaybar will not affect your alignment. The only place it will affect suspension geometry is during turns, because there's more body roll. Anybody that honestly believes that a swaybar affects alignment doesn't understand how any car's suspension system works.

the function of the swaybar is to prevent one side from moving more than the other. That's what stops the body roll. if all you're doing is going around 90 degree corners at 30 mph, yes, you'd see exaggerated outer edge tire wear compared to doing the same thing with a swaybar...
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Alright, just to see what would happen, I took an exit ramp from the interstate at 55 today; rather erratically, even. and... nothing. My KJ didn't feel any worse (or better) than it did when it was stock (and I'm still alive with no more damage). Worse than it does with the sway bar and the new suspension, certainly but, compared to what I bought originally, it's better still. Now, what would you like to talk about, exactly?
Author:  Guest [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:06 am ]
Post subject: 
you still have your rear swaybar on? it's taking a tail-happy attitude during hard cornering I assume?
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:
you still have your rear swaybar on? it's taking a tail-happy attitude during hard cornering I assume?


Yes. I truly believe that taking both off would be suicidal. I don't drive more than 62mph, ever! That's critical, I believe. Saves life and GAS $$$!
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:16 am ]
Post subject: 
and, like I said, it's only as good as the stock suspension was, without the sway bar. It was better on-road with it attached. I go off-road almost every weekend and I don't do much hi-speed driving so, I feel safe without it. If you don't, by ALL MEANS LEAVE IT ATTACHED, PLEASE! and don't take anyone else's word on anything. Find out for yourself!
Author:  Guest [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Dje Ryu wrote:
ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:
you still have your rear swaybar on? it's taking a tail-happy attitude during hard cornering I assume?


Yes. I truly believe that taking both off would be suicidal. I don't drive more than 62mph, ever! That's critical, I believe. Saves life and GAS $$$!


Seems like the only time I ever even ALMOST get in an accident it's when I'm obeying the speed limit! :P
Author:  RespectMyLibertay [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:07 am ]
Post subject: 
RespectMyLibertay wrote:
It's true according to the 3 places I've taken my KJ to for an alignment. Two have refused to do any alignment without my front swaybar. The other didn't mention anything probably because I had it on. I had a chat with the alignment guys at each location and each say, at a minimum, I'm going to see more tire wear without my front swaybar on-road. They always give me a "this isn't a wrangler" talk about how it's IFS and that means the front tires can wear like crazy even after proper alignment, compared to a SFA-rig with crap alignment. The simple fact that SFA-rig has two tires connect by a solid tube means it can't wear it's tires as bad as an IFS rig can. That's just what they said...and I beleive it. You don't have to. I'm not so sure about the hubs and control arm bushings...but if you think about it, it's possible. If you rock-crawled every day without your swaybars, you'd see mad flex 24/7 and that would likely increase wear to something. It's not like suspension components last forever, and using them more and harder (no front swaybar) WILL wear something.
I wheel and drive around town without my front swaybar still. I just wanted to let people know that they might get a refusal to do any alignment without their fronts on. I could maybe just be dealing with a bunch of airheads, but two shops insisted they were 100% serious about needing that swaybar up front. I also just wanted people to know that the excess travel you see without your front swaybar will increase component wear by some degree, so don't be surprised if you have to replace something sooner than expected.


Now boys and girl, I appreciate the pokes and prods but if you read my quote of MYSELF you might pick up on a few things you missed while you snickered at that natural selection joke DaveKJ02 was so kind to bestow upon me. Thanks for the insult, you adult you. I'm 18, and even I have better "internet-composure" than you. Save your insults for your kids and spouses! :oops: :roll: Proving me wrong with other opposing and overwhelming "opinions" or facts would be so much more intellectual and in the spirit of conversation (IMO the heart of these forums) than giving me the 'ole Darwin knee-slapper. But I guess that's not you're...oh wait, I'm above that insulting-over-the-internet stuff :idea:

Time for a Kit-Kat.
Author:  DaveKJ02 [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry if you were insulted by my post, but if you reread that, you'll see I was not really insulting YOU. Just pointing out how you can easily be fleeced by the "pros" AND trying to get my point across of how dangerous it is to drive without the front swaybar. There are a handful of people here trying to convinve others how safe it is. Being at the ripe age of 18, you may not yet realize there are things in life that you may never use, but you still need. Runng without it is dangerous, not so much for the daily drive, its for the unexpected turn. Saying you dont need it is like saying you dont need insurance because you didnt have an accident.

And dont be so sensitive. You'll age quicker.
Author:  Dje Ryu [ Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just relating my own experiences. FWIW, though I plan on putting the swaybar back on Sunday, after I get back from the mountain.

As far as the insulting, well, this isn't the first time I've been subject to such things. In fact, the last time was the same person, iirc but, don't worry about it. I don't.
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