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A couple more inches please...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4750		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Coyotefred [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  A couple more inches please...
Every lady (and guy's) fantasy right??? Well now it's mine too :D

I had a chance to take the KJ out for some moderate off-roading today (some hilly two-track and cattle trails). Overall I really liked how the KJ handled everything…much more aggressive, responsive and fun to drive than the 1994 Toyota 4x4 pickup it is replacing.

The one thing that I wasn’t real happy about was ground clearance. I have the skid plate group and I was scraping up plenty of prairie sod and 6-8" rocks all day—something that never happened with my Toy. The tape measure told the tale—the back edge of my front skid plate sits only about 6” off the ground—almost 3” less than my stock Toy and not much higher than my girlfriend’s Honda accord :(

I don’t expect to do much rock-crawling with my KJ, but I need more than 6” of front clearance. I live in a rural area where the local roads get minimal maintenance and where getting through snow and wet spring mud often means just plowing on ahead through the stuff. I’m really concerned about getting high-centered in wet snow with only 6” of front clearance.

‘Any suggestions for gaining a few more inches of clearance? For starters I was thinking about removing that front skid plate, which I think from eyeballing it would gain me an inch or so right there. I know that protection can really be important, but I don’t drive many places where I need skid-plate protection from rocks. ‘Snow and mud are the only things I would likely be scraping, so I’m wondering whether the extra protection is worth the reduction in ground clearance?

Beyond that I guess I’m looking at tires and/or a lift. Right now I’m running stock P235 70R16 tires. I was already planning on upgrading to a better tire in a slightly larger size (P235 75R16), but maybe I need to step back and think about a moderate lift and a still-larger tire size? I’m a little hesitant to do a major lift and what that might mean as far as additional strain on the KJ and possible reduced performance of the KJ in “everyday driving,” but maybe a moderate lift and larger tires would be a good compromise? I've read through the many posts on lift options and there seem to be a lot of choices out there; perhaps some of you have some specific advice for my situation.

‘Any advice appreciated—thanks everyone for your time and help!
Author:  ManicMechanicJoe [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
keep the skids, get a bigger tire (245/75) and get a lift. Since most of the lifts available are 2.5 inches and most of us have had great luck with this, get a 2.5" lift. They start at the $160 and go to $700 or so. I live in the upper midwest and drive through farm country all the time. So far in the month I have had my lift on, I have noticed a big improvement. The tires also really helped. If you want to get started tonight-do a clevis lift, its free and you will gain a little more clearance.
Author:  fireman1028 [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
do a search on "lifts" and that should answer most of your questions. You will find that just about everyone has asked the same question at one time or another.
Allen
Author:  Coyotefred [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
fireman1028 wrote:
do a search on "lifts" and that should answer most of your questions. You will find that just about everyone has asked the same question at one time or another.
Allen


Yep you're right...I've read most of those posts already and they were really helpful. I just got the impression that many folks were lifting for crawling and more serious off-roading, so I thought I would post to see if folks thought that was the right way to go for my needs of lousy road snow-pushing/plowing, or whether a more moderate lift option would be good enough to get me through... :D
Author:  priell3 [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is what I have and consider it moderate but it fits my needs:
4WD 2" Lift

With 235/75/16 or 245/70/16 tires, you won't clanking that skid plate nearly as much.
Author:  JacksJeep [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
A lift, 2 or 2.5 inches, will make a big difference because it changes how the front suspension sits at rest. With stock springs the KJ's suspension sits below the mid-point of suspension travel. In other words, the suspension is already in the downward portion of its travel. So as soon an you hit a bump, the suspension compresses and BANG! Adding any of the "good" lifts will solve this problem. And you will gain more clearance in the front than the size of the lift. This is partly because with the lift on, the angle of the front skid is changed and it hangs down less.
Author:  japracer4 [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:22 am ]
Post subject: 
a 235/75 tire might gain you a 1/2 inch. put the lift and go with 245/75's. you'll gain over an inch in tire size plus the addition of the lift will put you up high enough.
Author:  Coyotefred [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Well it seems like there are several options out there, but I'm still a little frustrated at having to consider them in the first place. I'm still finding it hard to believe that someone's calling a rig "trail certified" that is rolling off the lot with only 6-6.5" of front clearance. Was I smoking something when I was comparing KJs to other vehicles in this class and read about 9.6" of ground clearance for 4x4 Liberty compared to 7.5" for CR-V and Outback, etc.? Does that front skid place knock 3" off your front clearance or was someone fudging some numbers???

At this point I almost wonder whether I wouldn't be better off trading the KJ back in for a good used XJ, which was what I was looking for originally. All I really care about is the versatility of Jeep's selec-trac transfer case, a legitimate off-road frame/suspension and 4low. I bought my used KJ because of a good end-of-year price and very low mileage for an '02, which I though would mean fewer repairs/problems in the near future. I really like my KJ so far, but 6" of clearance is a joke. I'm thinking a stock XJ with a simple tire upgrade would get me into the 9"+ range?

In any case, I guess the bottom-line is that I need a recommended solution that:

1. will at least get me the clearance I got used to in my old Toyota pickup (around 10” front and around 8” below the rear diff);
2. can be competently installed by a decent ASE-certified auto shop (I don’t live around any 4x4 mod shops and I don’t have the tools or expertise to trust myself doing this type of work);
3. isn’t terribly expensive; and
4. won’t dramatically undermine my on-road driving performance (handling, stability, mileage, etc.)

'Seems like a 2.5" lift (Daystar?) and 31" tires are a popular choice with many...?

Also...what would be a reasonable charge for doing the install? 3 or 4 hours labor x $75/hour or so = $300 for labor + whatever for alignment?

Thanks again for the help-
Author:  Eddo [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Coyotefred wrote:
Well it seems like there are several options out there, but I'm still a little frustrated at having to consider them in the first place. I'm still finding it hard to believe that someone's calling a rig "trail certified" that is rolling off the lot with only 6-6.5" of front clearance. Was I smoking something when I was comparing KJs to other vehicles in this class and read about 9.6" of ground clearance for 4x4 Liberty compared to 7.5" for CR-V and Outback, etc.? Does that front skid place knock 3" off your front clearance or was someone fudging some numbers???

At this point I almost wonder whether I wouldn't be better off trading the KJ back in for a good used XJ, which was what I was looking for originally. All I really care about is the versatility of Jeep's selec-trac transfer case, a legitimate off-road frame/suspension and 4low. I bought my used KJ because of a good end-of-year price and very low mileage for an '02, which I though would mean fewer repairs/problems in the near future. I really like my KJ so far, but 6" of clearance is a joke. I'm thinking a stock XJ with a simple tire upgrade would get me into the 9"+ range?

In any case, I guess the bottom-line is that I need a recommended solution that:

1. will at least get me the clearance I got used to in my old Toyota pickup (around 10” front and around 8” below the rear diff);
2. can be competently installed by a decent ASE-certified auto shop (I don’t live around any 4x4 mod shops and I don’t have the tools or expertise to trust myself doing this type of work);
3. isn’t terribly expensive; and
4. won’t dramatically undermine my on-road driving performance (handling, stability, mileage, etc.)

'Seems like a 2.5" lift (Daystar?) and 31" tires are a popular choice with many...?

Also...what would be a reasonable charge for doing the install? 3 or 4 hours labor x $75/hour or so = $300 for labor + whatever for alignment?

Thanks again for the help-


With any 2.5" lift and 245/75R16 tires for the KJ you will get about 10" under the front skid and about 8" under the rear diff. I would recommend the Daystar if you are on a budget. I presonally like my Frankenlift along with a lot of other, but it is more pricey. Any mechanic should be able to install these lifts. All manufactors like to play games with the ground clearence numbers. Just like the specs on anything, manufactors always like to find a ways to stretch the truth.
Author:  the1jferg [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
6" - thats pathetic!

Awesome 4x2 :lol:
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe DC claims 9.6" of "running" ground clearance. Apparently that means under the rocker panels. So basically anything 9.6" or less that you run directly over with your tire should then clear the rocker panel...
Author:  Coyotefred [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
quote]

With any 2.5" lift and 245/75R16 tires for the KJ you will get about 10" under the front skid and about 8" under the rear diff. I would recommend the Daystar if you are on a budget. I presonally like my Frankenlift along with a lot of other, but it is more pricey. Any mechanic should be able to install these lifts. All manufactors like to play games with the ground clearence numbers. Just like the specs on anything, manufactors always like to find a ways to stretch the truth.[/quote]


Is the $50 more Daystar kit worth it for the extra goodies (bump stops and shock boots)? I'm guessing it probably would make sense for only $50 more. 'Looks like most folks also replace the stock rear shocks with Ranchos? But other than that I could stay stock and not have problems with stress/wear on other stock parts or an unstable ride on-road, etc?
Author:  Eddo [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that other daystar kit also come with swaybar bushings. Bumpstop are not a bad idea, shock boots normally come with shocks, and the poly swaybar bushing are a good thing to have when the old ones wear out.

I would recommend changing out the rear shocks to the Rancho RSX17004. Kind of need this to gain any extra flex in the rear, since the shocks are the limiting factor in the stock setup. As far as the front, you can keep the old struts but it is not a bad idea to replace them while you have everthing apart (save double labor) and will ride a little nicer up front.

Give Quinn a call at www.boulderbars.com He has alot of experience w/ the KJ and will make sure get what you need w/o any problems.
Author:  bighause [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had a 97 XJ for 3 years and in my experience, stock for stock, the KJ will out wheel the XJ even with the limited ground clearance under the diff. That skid plate is there for a reason, dont remove it.

I was in the same boat as you before I lifted my KJ, I wanted to keep it stock because it drove great and I have had lifted 3 lifted Jeeps before and knew what they were like to drive everyday. The lifted Kj still drives great though, 2-2.5 inches of lift makes an amazing difference offroad but very little on road. I now have exactly 10.5 inches of clearance under the front diff with my lift and tires. Lift it, you wont be sorry!

Also, I would highly recommend Rusty's coil lift. It comes with Old Man Emu front struts, Rusty's rear shocks, and four new springs. Reusing the front struts with a spacer seems to have worn out many guys struts quickly once lifted. I installed it myself in 5 hours and I'm no mechanic. The only hard part was dissasembling/assembling the struts with the new springs. I would recommend having that done at a shop for $50 or so.

It is hard to beat Rusty's lift for $465 and you wont have to replace anything else once you lift it. www.rustysoffroad.com
Author:  1stJeepKJ [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I also would suggest the Rusty's Coil Lift. It is my daily driver and I love it. Although next time I'm going with some BFG All terrains to keep down on the Mud tire humming. I would recommend 31" tires and you won't have to do any trimming or pounding flat the pinch weld behind the front tire.

I'm sure the Franken lift is a great lift as so many have stated. It was not available when I purchased my lift and would have been a little out of the price range I was looking for. Although still a bargain! When my Rusty's is shot the front end will be replaced with Frankenlift.

I'm no mechanic and I was able to install the Rusty's in my garage. The rear end is very simple. Shocks and springs out and new ones in. The front end is a little more complicated but the main reason is putting together the front strut assembly. I ended up taking the front struts and springs to Les Schwab and they assembled them for $10/each. When back home, bolted them in and voila! Lifted.

Do it! :P Makes a world of difference.
Author:  afornal [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Just Another Option
Check my site for all the deatils...... :shock:
Author:  the1jferg [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  huh??
I'm really confused here, My 2002 4x2 with 245/70's has 9.5" of diff clearance and 8" of A-arm clearance at its lowest point by the tires. (No lift except a front poly)

What kinda libby yall driving with the 6" or less that some of you are talking about?

Eddo, "8 under the rear diff" ???

SkyJump "9.6 at rocker"?? My rocker is close to 15"

I refuse to believe the 4x4's libbys have less clearance than 2 wheelers.
Author:  bighause [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:16 am ]
Post subject: 
A 4x2 with no skids has the most clearance of any KJ. Kind of ironic since they are the least capable (no offense). They don't have the weight of the differential assembly, or the skid plate hanging down to protect the diff. Your tires give you an extra 1/2" or so and the front poly spacer is also raising that clearance number.

A bone stock 4x4 with the offroad group has the lowest clearance because of the skidplate up front at around 6.5"
Author:  the1jferg [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, I did not know this.

My tranny skid made no compromise.

I'm not offended, I understand the Lib is a v%y limited 4x4 and thats why I got the 4x2.

Unreal
Author:  Coyotefred [ Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
the1jferg wrote:
I'm not offended, I understand the Lib is a very limited 4x4 and thats why I got the 4x2.

Unreal


Hey there...I'm not trying to argue...I'm just curious about what you mean by this? When I was shopping around for a new rig to replace my old truck, I had no special love or hate for Jeep; it was just one of several options out there I was considering. I knew I needed something that could legitimately be taken off-road in terms of its general build quality and a 4low. That eliminated a fair number of vehicles in this class (e.g. Honda CR-V and Subaru). I also wanted a full-time 4WD option, which eliminated another large group vehicles with part-time 4WD only (e.g. Xterra, most pickups, etc.). And in the end I didn't want to break the bank (I wasn't shopping landrovers). In my price range, I couldn't find anything else that gave me the versatility of a Jeep with selec-trac. And as I've learned on this site in the last few weeks, people are obviously doing some amazing things with their 4x4 KJs, many by just lifting a little and changing out tires.

Now obviously I'd prefer to not have to do that lifting...'not sure what DC was thinking having a Honda CR-V roll off the lot with an inch more clearance than their XJ with a so-called "offroad package," but in the end if I have to spend another grand lifting and putting on new tires, it seems to me I still end up with a very capable and versatile 4x4 at a price well-below most of the other options out there. My only gripe it is the mileage, which obviously stinks, but as others point out is comparable to similarly-heavy vehicles.

But I'm a newbie so maybe I'm missing your point? :D
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