I think this is going to cost me.

W3CSX · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:31 am

I think I did it this weekend. Me and some of the boys in the Mid-Atlantic group went wheeling Saturday.

On the way home from Paragon I noticed a Repetitious low pitch whining/grinding noise coming from the front It accelerates with the speed of the Jeep. Sunday I pulled the skids, cleaned up the jeep looked for damage and didn't find anything out of place. The Jeep has just over 12,000mi's in her so I went ahead and changed the fluids in the dif's. Still whining.

Yesterday I dropped hear off at Jeep. They called me last night to pick her up. Said it’s just your tires. I told them it can't be the MTR's have been on for about 6-7 weeks and this just started Saturday. I was more or less told I didn't know what talking about and asked what the H*** did I put tires like that on a Liberty for anyway.

This morning I went over there. Made the service manager take a drive with me and pointed out the different sounds from the tires and the whining. He vary reluctantly agreed there is something else wrong and it's not the tires. He thinks I have either have chipped a tooth in the front dif or have a problem with the transfer case.

Arrrrrrrrrrrg

chemguy · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:18 pm

W3CSX wrote:

I was more or less told I didn't know what talking about and asked what the H*** did I put tires like that on a Liberty for anyway.

I always love when somebody backhandedly calls their customer an idiot. Two thumbs down!

Se7enLC · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:10 pm

chemguy wrote:

W3CSX wrote:

I was more or less told I didn't know what talking about and asked what the H*** did I put tires like that on a Liberty for anyway.

I always love when somebody backhandedly calls their customer an idiot. Two thumbs down!

Double way down. Now that it's not the tires, whatever it is they had better fix it under warranty! Keep us posted.

zeero · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:37 pm

Quote:

Double way down. Now that it's not the tires, whatever it is they had better fix it under warranty! Keep us posted.

Yeah 10-4 on that....these A****LE dealers man...."What are you doing putting those kind of tires on a Liberty anyway" <--- This kind of attitude is just getting out of control....a friend of mine took a daystar spacer lift to the (same one I go to) dealer for his KJ and was told they won't put it on because they won't be held responsible for voiding the vehciles warranty "because it'll just open the door to lawsuits and liability".....so we did it ourselves in his driveway two weeks ago.

Growing up you think the dealers are the authority on cars....turns out when you do business with them they don't know their heads from a hole in the ground....its a money game...period.

Tell us what happens bro...I'm building a bit of case study here. :wink:

Jjay · **Posted:** Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:15 pm

sometimes its better to take another openion from a mechanic that has nothing to do with Jeep experts. Took my jeep (3 weeks after I bought it) complaining about weird sound coming from my gear. They said its normal and nothin to worry about......until the gear stick came out of place in the middle of the desert. Can you imagine? middle of no where holding my gear stick in my hand...not funny

W3CSX · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:01 am

Well I heard from the stealership this afternoon.

Now they say the front passenger side lower control arm is bent and cracked. Which it is slightly and has been for two months (with out any problems). Also, right CV joints are shot and right hub needs replaced.

First thing out of there mouth was "it's the lift". We will not cover under your warranty. They want $2,450.00 to fix it! They can’t even guaranty this is the problem. This is there “Lets try this and see” solution. Not with my $2,450.00 there not.

I have only had the lift on six weeks and about 2,000 miles. How can the CV's be gone already? For that matter I only have 12,000 miles total. I think I’m getting a big steaming smelly load of it here.

I think I will take it else where for a second opinion. Anyone know a lift friendly dealer in central Maryland? I have heard Adam’s Jeep is good.

Jason

RkyMtnKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:45 am

that cant be after 2,000 miles with a lift, i have gone 4,000 miles on my rusty's lift and im an 05 no problems except for squeaky shocks and a rattling tailgate which im not going to worry about at this time.....go to another dealer before you agree to anything. Sorry to hear about that man you may have the torn the CV boot on a rock or just caught it on something but its always better to double check

chemguy · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:06 am

Quote:

They said its normal and nothin to worry about

This is a common theme amongst the stealership clan. All he left out was "turn up the radio". They are all mostly idiots. However, my dealer was tickled to death when I lifted mine and never had any problems getting warranty work done by them after the fact. Diamond in the rough I guess.

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:01 am

Get a coppy of the moss-magnussen act. it is federal law that regulates your rights regarding warranty and the manufacturer.

THEY must proove all of your problems are directly caused by the aftermarket products.

You will need to get a copy and read it. I had to fight a warranty deal, They told me I had to proove the aftermarket product did not cause it, and produced the act then I had no problems with that dealer afterward.

MudTrac · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:23 am

Yes this is true that they must look into why the aftermarket part was the cause for the failure. The act was mostly created to stop dealers from voiding your whole warranty due to one part of the engine / body was modified. Of course if they are trying to get your exhaust voided because you put on straight pipes then it would be not wise to argue that your straight pipes hurt something, because this is a direct violation of federal law and also some states have laws against bumper height and so on. Read this act over and as always save your stock parts because you never know when you’ll need them to put them back on to get a warranty replacement done. if the parts aren’t on there , they are going to have a hard time proving anything. Use your best judgment. In your case I think we all agree that the lift would not do the damage done here, I think that jeep fell short of making a reliable front end for the liberty my self. Seems they would have looked into a revamp by this year.

ManicMechanicJoe · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:56 am

The aluminum diff is fine. Yes I said it flame on. I have seen one break in person (made a terrible noise). Look at who drives the vast majority of these things. Is it the hardcore wheeler? Nope. It is the mom who can't afford or park an H2. Sorry guys. We're the minority. Businesses don't make money on the minorities. How many guys have blown their front diff? It isn't everyone (I can only think of 3 off hand but I know there are more on this board). We're the ones beating the crap out of these vehicles and I bet there are less then 20 people on this board who have grenaded their diffs. How many people are on this board? 1200? You see where I am going with this. It is cheaper for DCX to cover these 20 people under warranty then it is to fix the problem. Let me clarify my point before I get the major rants this post is sure to bring: IF it were up to me we would have Dana 44 center sections. The Dana 30a will NOT hold up to my driving habits (off road at least once a week) for a prolonged period of time. This diff is not fine for me or many of the people on the board (those of you who's christmas list included something from AllJ's) but it is fine for the VAST majority of people in the world who use 4 wheel drive when it rains or there is an inch of snow on the ground. Sorry folks.

USAFCOP · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:28 am

we are not the only ones with cast aluminum diffs...

I looked at an avalanche that was on a high display ramp while gettin Tricia's shity serviced, and sure enough, it is a cast aluminum 8.25 gm center section. And the shocker... It is split down the middle and bolted together instead of the traditional housing and cover plate!!! I liked how the halfshafts mounted better than ours though. The bolt on to a flange like the original HMMWV's I worked on in the desert.

QuietOutdoorsman · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:26 pm

flamesuit on?.....check!

Ok, here's my $.02.......the front dif being aluminum is not a problem. The front dif being cast aluminum is the problem. Castings, no matter the material, are weaker than billet stock. I work with aluminum all the time in the aerospace industry, so I know the stuff can be very strong. Typical aluminum alloys I work with have a plate or extrusion strength in the 70-75 ksi range, forgings slightly higher than that. An aluminum casting will typically be down around 30-35 ksi.

When you get metal from the mill it starts as a large billet, then get rolled out into sheets and plates or hammered through a die to form an extrusion. That sets up nice nice grain flows within the material and high inter-molecular bond strengths. With a casting you take the molten metal and pour it into a mold. There is no grain flow, no slow working of the material through rollers to build the bond strengths. All you end up with is the weaker natural bond strength of the molecules, and if there is any flaw the material becomes likely to shatter rather than crack.
(can you tell I'm an engineer? I'm such a nerd sometimes.....)

The end answer is if you can find someone to forge a dif housing you would be much stronger than with a cast one. A forged aluminum housing would be at least as strong as a cast steel housing, and lighter.

jpzkj · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:16 pm

I'd suggest taking your Jeep to another dealer. I had a problem with the upper control arms on my wifes KJ. I took it to one dealer and heard the same song and dance about the lift and theMTR's..ect. They informed me that everything was within spcec. No problems found.

I took the Jeep to another Dealer and they replaced the upper control arms (left/right) and the entire Rack n' Pinion under the extended warrenty..paid the 100 buck deductable and Im good to go..

Some dealers are good about lifts...some aren't. Get a second opinion

Hope that helps out

ManicMechanicJoe · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:29 am

QuietOutdoorsman wrote:

flamesuit on?.....check!

Ok, here's my $.02.......the front dif being aluminum is not a problem. The front dif being cast aluminum is the problem. Castings, no matter the material, are weaker than billet stock. I work with aluminum all the time in the aerospace industry, so I know the stuff can be very strong. Typical aluminum alloys I work with have a plate or extrusion strength in the 70-75 ksi range, forgings slightly higher than that. An aluminum casting will typically be down around 30-35 ksi.

When you get metal from the mill it starts as a large billet, then get rolled out into sheets and plates or hammered through a die to form an extrusion. That sets up nice nice grain flows within the material and high inter-molecular bond strengths. With a casting you take the molten metal and pour it into a mold. There is no grain flow, no slow working of the material through rollers to build the bond strengths. All you end up with is the weaker natural bond strength of the molecules, and if there is any flaw the material becomes likely to shatter rather than crack.
(can you tell I'm an engineer? I'm such a nerd sometimes.....)

The end answer is if you can find someone to forge a dif housing you would be much stronger than with a cast one. A forged aluminum housing would be at least as strong as a cast steel housing, and lighter.

Cast is cheaper then billet which I assume you know. I think forging which can be economically viable on a large scale (from what I have seen in the marine industy). I believe it is cheaper then billet but I thought billet was stronger... I would rather have a forged piece for sure. But you know the big corporations-in it for the money, not the glory and we the consumer have to foot the bill. So it comes down to what is cheapest and will work for 90% of customers...

W3CSX · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:57 pm

USAFCOP wrote:

Get a coppy of the moss-magnussen act. it is federal law that regulates your rights regarding warranty and the manufacturer.

Anyone know where I can get more info on this act. I tried to goggle it and didn't come up with much.

I'm getting a second opinion today or tomorrow. Fortunately the aluminum diff is not a problem. The first dealer says it the CV joints and hub we will see about what the next shop says.

I think this is going to cost me.

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