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| 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63909 |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
I want to swap an 05 CRD 4X4 complete drivetrain from a rollover into an 02 4X2 with a 253K mile 3.7 on life support (but good chassis). Both vehicles are completely intact, nothing missing, so I have computer, harness, instrument panel, fuel tank and lines, transfer case, shafts, etc. Does anyone know of any compatibility issues, necessary adapters, etc. to make the swap work? |
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| Author: | JL Rockies [ Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
sell everything and buy a complete CRD. |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
Great idea!! You gonna give me the $10K to buy it???? Didn't think so. I can pull this off for half that. Besides, the 05 rollover IS a complete CRD (read the post), I just don't care for all the dented sheetmetal. Anybody actually have any useful info? |
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| Author: | spitfire36o [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
beelatch wrote: Great idea!! You gonna give me the $10K to buy it???? Didn't think so. I can pull this off for half that. Besides, the 05 rollover IS a complete CRD (read the post), I just don't care for all the dented sheetmetal. Anybody actually have any useful info? You aren't going to get anywhere on this forum talking like that. If you already own the rollover, it will be easier to part it out and sell your current gasser and buy a used CRD. That swap seems like it will be nothing but headaches. To me that project contains too many unknowns. But if you are in pursuit of a challenge, crazier things have been done. As far as saving money...that all depends on how much your time is worth. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
It can be done but in the end is it worth it? Most likely no since there might be legal issues where you live so check with the local DMV 1st,plus any resale value is now zero unless you private sell it and most will be leary about it anyways.It will be very labor intensive as the whole wiring harness(all of it) will have to be switched over.If the CRD has the OEM alram the the steering colum will have to be switched also.The drivetrain stuff is easy it's all the wiring and such.Alot of modifing will need to be done under the hood also since the gas '02 will not have all the correct mounting points for the CRD stuff,might have radiator,intercooler,and electric fan mounting issues also. |
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| Author: | ibHenry [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
If you don't have a smog inspection, it looks to me that all it should cost you is time and patience. the bodies are identical, they don't make two different ones, the mounting points should be there. Just take the time to look it over closely first. 
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
First of all the Bodies are different the front bumper and support panels on the 02-04 front end for all the lights and radiator are different motor mounts and K member are different and the fire wall panel is different. So if you can trade the 02 in for and 05 or 06 with a blown motor you would have better luck. |
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| Author: | secondechomatt [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
Sell both and buy a crd. |
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| Author: | teckman02 [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
if you have the time and know how, tools, time, space, and so on i say go for it... if you do, do this take lots of pics and post it up |
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| Author: | ridenby [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
Would get the factory manuals on both-if different-and study a little. Best guess is the wiring will be a job to switch-if needed. Don't know but am thinking that they are probably same,just different functions carried out. Good luck.
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| Author: | NewOldTimer [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
If sheet metal is the only damage, why not just remove the body panels from the gasser and install on the CRD. If the roof and unibody aren't badly damaged, a little body work, new fenders, doors, rear gate, etc. IMHO, the easiest way to accomplish this if you're intent on doing it. |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
I bought the 02 gasser last week specifically for swapping in the diesel. It has at least a head gasket issue and maybe lower end problems as well. So far I've drained the fluids and removed the exhaust. Green slime (oil and coolant) bled from the crankcase AND exhaust (no wonder it didn't want to run). The engine might be revivable but I really don't care as I live in a no spark plug zone. The CRD is a rollover - the only undamaged panel is the tailgate and as luck would have it the only damaged panel on the gasser is the tailgate so that will get swapped too. Also the 05 interior, radio, steering column, maybe the carpet.... The unibody is damaged all over and will be scrapped. The gasser is already setup for 4X4 (crossmember has cutout for shaft, front wheel hubs are splined to accept shafts) but we will probably just replace the whole drivetrain. The subframes are easily swapped. Mechanic (who is an EXPERT fabricator, engine builder, etc. - he gets personalized holiday greeting cards from Bentley publishers for being a beta tester) says it might be easiest to just pull the old drivetrain out the front and slide the CRD in. Shouldn't be a difficult job just mostly tedious and the biggest PITA will probably be the harness. Any fabrication will be a piece of cake. Seems like swaps tend to scare members here. This shouldn't be a big deal, the 2.8 was a stock option as was the 3.7. They were both fit to the same vehicle by design. We already swapped a 1.9 VW TDI into a gasser boat and had to fabricate nearly everything (complete closed cooling system, exhaust, steering, throttle [TDIs are DriveByWire], water to air intercooler) as well as deal with the electronics. Next is a mini Cummins (4BT) into a 02 4.7 Dodge Dakota which should be much more complex (will need an NV3500, mounts, adapters, etc.) but still not so bad (Jeff Daniels Jeep makes a conversion kit for the new Wrangler which will work with the 02 Dakota, both being Chrysler - keeping the stock PCM, instrument panel, no CELs). I look at this swap as a "break" in between the two. I've got about $4K into the project so far and expect another $1k, maybe $1500, by the time it is on the road, depending on how much work I do and how much I leave for my mechanic. Not to mention selling the old drivetrain parts and scrapping the CRD carcass for hundreds. Regardless, it will be several THOUSANDS less than what I would have to have paid to buy a CRD. That means more money for those oh so necessary performance enhancements. |
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
Ok well just one other thing to add since you do seem to have your sights set on this and i say go for it. But just a simple thing that alot over look the front K member is set up for a gassers front differential it will need to be swapped because the CRDs is different. And please document this as much as possible i really want to see this. |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
audiboy86 wrote: Ok well just one other thing to add since you do seem to have your sights set on this and i say go for it. But just a simple thing that alot over look the front K member is set up for a gassers front differential it will need to be swapped because the CRDs is different. And please document this as much as possible i really want to see this. I expect this may be true for other things as well. That is why I secured a complete CRD, every last piece is available. From underneath it appears that everything is easily "swappable". And if it isn't we will find a way, but I don't expect that will be necessary. I got most of the engine's tethers disconnected today so it is pretty much ready to come out but only had a couple hours to work on it. I plan to get as many pics as possible once the swap starts but it all depends on how much time I can "take off" from work and how much patience my mechanic has waiting for me (and his second lift) before he just goes ahead and finishes it on his own. I am fortunate to have such a resource, I can cut my costs by doing the grunt work and learn from him while assisting on the rest. I found some online factory shop manuals (for $7.99!!!!) today so I downloaded the 2002 and 2005. They are complete factory service manuals in PDF, what a bargain. Going to try to get the drivetrain out tomorrow but have a feeling I won't be able to get away from work. |
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| Author: | audiboy86 [ Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
The one for the diesel is on here for free just go to sam's Noob guide he has a link that you can download it from here. |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
NOW you tell me!;-) Guess I should have looked through all the archives first but at that price I don't mind. Someone emailed me about the source so in case anyone else is interested, I found them here: http://www.pacificcoastmanuals.com/FSM_ ... berty.html. They have lots of other vehicles too (I could have used the 2001 Dodge Dakota for $6.99 for my 02 Dakota as I spent $40 from another source - NOW I tell me!) |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
NewOldTimer wrote: If sheet metal is the only damage, why not just remove the body panels from the gasser and install on the CRD. If the roof and unibody aren't badly damaged, a little body work, new fenders, doors, rear gate, etc. IMHO, the easiest way to accomplish this if you're intent on doing it. I think the pics will speak for themselves. http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk13 ... 20Liberty/ |
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| Author: | teckman02 [ Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
no clicking needed    
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| Author: | GBKJ2003 [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
Hello Belatch. The swap is possible I have swapped a 2005, 2.8 crd engine into a 2003, 2.5 crd.I know that they are basically the same engine physically but that is where the similarity ends. Also my steering wheel is on the right.The front wings/fenders need swapping the front carrier panel where the radiators and intercooler is fitted, the washer bottle. and also the brake lines and the abs pump as they have different harness plugs and the lines have different unions.The most intensive part is swapping the entire wiring harness as the air bags use different modules.The dash wiring wont match up to the engine wiring harness. I found it easier to swap the entire dashboard as the harness and BCM is fitted to it.Also degas the aircon as you will have to swap all the pipework as these are all different too. As you have both vehicles you will see where it all goes.When removing the CRD harness photo and lable every plug as you have a lot to undo and reconnect later. Strip out the V6 engine bay and remove the subframe,diff, shocks, steering rack and wiring. Give the engine bay a blast and a lick of paint.Install the harness at this point as it will be easier to access the mounting points. Bolt up the Crd subframe with its diff, steering rack, Upper arms and shocks still attached. Then drop in the engine.I would reccomend you fit new mounts as they have a tendancy to harden and rattle over time. I would also fit all the sondproofing too as you will notice the engine noise increase.The only difficult part is the gearbox crossmember mountings are farther back on the chassis rails on the 2005+ model year.I dont know if the autobox crossmembers are different. I managed to reuse the 2003 crossmember in its original position and this all lined up with the six speed manual gearbox mountings. Dont forget to swap the rear axle as your ratios are possibly different. It is quite a labour intensive job but if you have the time and equipment it shouldnt be too difficult. You will be surprised to find that most of the fixings will be on the 2003 shell already.!! The only reason I carried this job out as it was the most cost effective way of getting a replacement engine for my Kj in England. Good luck. |
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| Author: | beelatch [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 05 4X4 CRD into 02 Liberty 4X2 |
GBKJ2003, thanks for the informative post, this is the kind of info that I am looking for. I have already labeled most of the harness that isn't blatantly obvious as we figured we would be swapping in the entire harness and we have taken photos from every angle to be sure we have a clear record of everything. We have cleared (dismantled) both vehicles' front ends to the point that we will be pulling the V6 tomorrow all the way back to the rear diff. Both vehicle harnesses have been disconnected from the chassis'. Later we will drop the rear axle (not only are the rear axles ratios different but the V6 had drum rears and no ABS, the CRD has discs and ABS). I'll have the mechanic check the crossmember mountings (I've sent your whole post specifics to him so he can run through them) although they appear identical. We also need to transfer the turbo heat shield on the firewall that of course the V6 doesn't have. Not sure if the steering rack is different, certainly the power steering system is. We are swapping the dash but don't know yet if the CRD BCM will have any issues on the V6 chassis, hopefully it will just swap in as it did for you. The airbox upper half is different but we will probably just build a custom CAI anyway. Both A/Cs have been recovered (my mechanic has ALL the tools we will ever need!!!) I am also looking at converting the fuel filter housing to use CAT filters. I am sure we will discover much more that needs consideration but thank you for your advice, that is exactly what I am looking for! |
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