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2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
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Author:  AlpineYJ [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
A month or so ago, my 2002 Liberty dropped a valve seat. After a series of mind-changing and after being laughed at by my wallet (open it up and moths fly out), the decision was made to limp it home from the shop and attempt to do a rebuild on it myself.

Needless to say, the head is trashed. I've got a new (ie - reman) on the way to my house for ~$400. I'm going to pull the other one and send it off to get rebuilt. As far as the rest of the engine goes, I'm going to pull it out and completely rebuild it. The piston is already trashed, and since I have to get that deep into it already, I may as well just do it right.

With that said, I'm planning on pulling the motor out w/o the transmission attached. For anybody that's yanked one of these (it's a 3.7L hooked to an automatic transmission), do you have any tips / tricks for me on getting it out? Will I be able to pull it without yanking the tranny with it? Will I have to take the front clip off of the entire vehicle first, or will I be able to get away with leaving all of that in place (as well as the radiator)? Both heads (with exhaust manifolds) will be off at that point, so there shouldn't be any of that to get snagged on during removal.

Thanks in advance!
Author:  fortx4 KJ [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
I'm a subscribed to this. What your plans for the bottom end and where did you pick up the head? If you pull out the pistons can you take measurements of them?
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Well, I ran into something that sent the idea of rebuilding this into the toilet - math.

The pistons (with rods and crank bearings) from the stealership are $150 each. That's $900 for pistons. After I totaled everything up, I will have over $2500 in the rebuild. Looking around, I found this:

http://www.promarengine.com/enginedetai ... 'CR3.7-01'

To answer your question, I found some heads (not the crappy ones everybody bitches about) on Advance Auto's website for around $400 each.

I hate flip-flopping, but every time I look for something, I keep getting sticker shocked.

I really wish these engines weren't made from unicorn guts.
Author:  Doolop [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Replace it. Not worth the rebuild. I rebuilt mine and would never do it again. The specs are so tight that a little play and you're out the rebuild and the replacement.

Try this link
http://www.powertrainproducts.net/category-s/451.htm

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Author:  JeepCoMj [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Look through my thread. I've found it's much easier to remove the body from the entire suspension.

http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f222/02-lib ... ion-53070/

Crawling underneath really kind of sucks. I did all of those with 2 guys and a 5 ton cherry picker. Don't have a car lift or it would be easier. A chain hoist on a rolling gantry would be best.

It might seem like alot more work...but the fact is that you don't have to deal with unbolting the starter, getting to the bellhousing bolts (good luck doing that without dropping the crossmember) etc.


You can pull it out of the engine bay, but you need the radiator removed, so the grille, upper rad support, and the like need to be out of the way.
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
JeepCoMj wrote:
Look through my thread. I've found it's much easier to remove the body from the entire suspension.

http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f222/02-lib ... ion-53070/

Crawling underneath really kind of sucks. I did all of those with 2 guys and a 5 ton cherry picker. Don't have a car lift or it would be easier. A chain hoist on a rolling gantry would be best.

It might seem like alot more work...but the fact is that you don't have to deal with unbolting the starter, getting to the bellhousing bolts (good luck doing that without dropping the crossmember) etc.


You can pull it out of the engine bay, but you need the radiator removed, so the grille, upper rad support, and the like need to be out of the way.


Rock on. Thank you!

I'll get that crap yanked. It'll give me something to do while I do some research.
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Yeah.. a rebuild on this turd is definitely out of the question. I am doing some reading, and I've stumbled a bit upon a dead horse that I think needs beaten a bit.

I've been reading up on putting newer model engines into these things. I managed to find a 2006 engine with ~50k on it for around $1200. From my research, I will need to do the following:
* Swap out cam timing gear on passenger cam.
* Swap out reluctor ring on crankshaft with one from trashed motor - yep, it requires removal of the crankshaft.. which means dicking with bearings, seals, etc
* Make and install EGR valve blockoff plate (Would it be possible to just leave the existing EGR in place, but not have it hooked up? I'm sure it will come with it..)
* Remove something from the new crank shaft that will allow my old torque converter to fit (anybody happen to have a picture of the "thing" that needs to come off of the "new" crank?)
* Possibly swap out all of the existing sensors with the ones off the old motor

Am I missing anyting?
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
I was steered towards these guys:

http://www.powertrainproducts.net/

They seem to really know these specific engines to be calling these kinds of things out:
powertrainproducts.net wrote:
•We install 100% new pressed in & pinned valve seats to stop seats from dropping and damaging engines.

•We have eliminated the oil sludge issue by utilizing a newly engineered piston which brings the combustion chamber temperature back under control. We have also drilled out drain back holes in the head and block to promote proper oiling.

•We have corrected timing chain guide and tensioner failure with new design parts.

•We install a M.L.S. (multi layer steel) head gasket which stops premature head gasket failure from the high heat conditions this engine endures.

•We stand behind our engine with a 4 year 1 milllion mile nationwide parts & labor warranty.

•We are the only manufacturer to offer a NO Fault Warranty on our engine($299.00) that provides coverage regardless of the cause of failure as well as providing rental car, towing, higher labor rate & diagnostic coverage.

•We have the best in stock coverage of these late model dodge engines anywhere with delivery times anywhere in the u.s within 2-3 days sometimes overnight!




$3,148 shipped with no-fault 4 year / 1,000,000 mile warranty.

I'm still weighing my options, but this is looking better and better..
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
I just took the plunge and ordered this.
Author:  JeepCoMj [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Where do you live?

If you're close to Wisconsin, I'd buy that engine. Either way, don't junk it.

I have a core I can send back too.
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
JeepCoMj wrote:
Where do you live?

If you're close to Wisconsin, I'd buy that engine. Either way, don't junk it.

I have a core I can send back too.


I am in the Dayton, OH area. How is the block on your motor (what is wrong with it)?
Author:  JeepCoMj [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
4 rods busted off in the bottom of the pan, one through the girdle, one through the oil pan on both sides.

I've already replaced it, but I am always looking for another buildable block. I even have a good passenger side head (been sitting, needs cleaned up/resealed), and pistons are not a huge deal.

With core return, I believe they *may* have stipulations that it's rebuildable, but the last motor I replaced with reman, the block was toast on and they still took it.
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
JeepCoMj wrote:
4 rods busted off in the bottom of the pan, one through the girdle, one through the oil pan on both sides.

I've already replaced it, but I am always looking for another buildable block. I even have a good passenger side head (been sitting, needs cleaned up/resealed), and pistons are not a huge deal.

With core return, I believe they *may* have stipulations that it's rebuildable, but the last motor I replaced with reman, the block was toast on and they still took it.


They said that as long as the block is still good, then they will take it as a core. From your description, it sounds like you have a boat anchor. :) They have a $450 core deposit that they'll charge me if they either don't get a core, or get an unusable core.

To be safe, what do you think about bringing $450 cash + your destroyed motor down with you, and we'll load up my old one to take back with you?
Author:  JeepCoMj [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
I'll get back to you via pm in the next few days. that's not a terrible drive, especially when I can do it in a duramax!
Author:  AlpineYJ [ Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
Sounds good!
Author:  TwoBobsKJ [ Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2002 KJ - Dropped valve seat = engine rebuild project
I'm late getting to this post but I hope I can add some pointers. Back in February I swapped in a 3.7 from a 2007 Dodge Dakota into my '03 Libby.

Yes, you CAN put a newer 3.7 long block into an older Libby - but in order for the computer to read the timing correctly the crankshaft reluctor ring and the cam sprocket have to be changed. PM me for details on that but in short you can buy a kit for $200 to make it all work.

A few quick points:

    You do NOT have to remove the radiator, grill, etc.
    The tranny can stay in the Jeep and is simply unbolted from the engine
    Disconnect the starter but leave it in the vehicle
    The exhaust manifolds and cats can stay attached to the engine
    Rent/borrow/steal a good engine hoist/cherry picker. Makes life much easier
    Borrow a 36" 1/2" drive socket extension to remove and install the tranny. In my mind it was the most important, time saving tool I used

I did the swap in my 2 car garage - in winter - with a floor jack, jack stands, an engine stand and rolling hoist. The new block (with only 9700 miles), timing kit, assorted gaskets and fluids ran me just under $1500. For all intents and purposes I have a new engine and a Jeep that will give me many more years of service. I'd do the project again in a heartbeat if I had to.

Here's an iPhone pic of the new engine going back in. You can see the radiator, grill, etc. still in the Jeep.
Image

More details HERE.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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