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Is it time for some JBA arms??
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79726		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  The_dealer [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Is it time for some JBA arms??
Hey guys, I've been having some issues since I bought my jeep, and it's steadily getting worse. I can't keep my junk in my own lane, the thing is all over the road. I don't know if this is a KJ thing or what. Everything suspension/Steering related has been replaced except the Sway Bar links and bushings (which are pretty shot but aren't noisy), and I've had at least 3 alignments (all by the same shop, which has been good for me in the past).

Here's a quick rundown of my setup: 926/947, 2 ring clevis, JBA top plate Bilstein struts & rear (Dakota rear), K3199's, Moog front uca's, Crown front lca's, detriot axle r&p with moog bushings, Moog tre's, new Mopar rear LCA, Moog rear UCA bushings and bj, and new tires.

It pulls to the left, and constant counter steering is needed to keep it straight. If feels like I'm constantly fighting a crosswind. The more pronounced the crown of the road is, the worse it handles. Being in the left lane is even worse, since it already pulls to the left. The steering is nice and tight with zero play. A nice way of explaining it, is I'm always having to correct it, but as soon as I do, I have to counter correct the opposite way. As some may or may not know, I'm fairly knowledgeable in suspension and steering whether stock, aftermarket, or fabricated. I'm starting to lean towards an alignment problem, and have read where guys have problems with the alignment shop getting lifted KJ's right. Could I just be at the limits of the stock UCA, and have horrible side effects? Are these issues common with similar setups without the JBA uppers? Any input is appecriated, I'm stumped. Should I try a different alignment shop? I figured since I wasn't having coil to uca contact it would be fine
Author:  Leeann [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Sounds like an alignment problem. I have no such issues, though mine is not lifted. Mine tracks where I put it, no correction needed.
Author:  John3:17 [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Have you checked your rack bushings?
Author:  The_dealer [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Yea, I put new moog bushings in when I did the Reman'd rack. Everything has less than 5k miles on it
Author:  dgeist [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
New upper arms might help your setup and be a good upgrade, but I doubt it's causing your problems (unless you have a LOT of play in one of the bushings...like bouncing around in the shell).

If you're holding the steering constant and you feel like parts are moving around under you, then loose connections on steering or suspension is your culprit. If it's just hard to hold in a constant position, like the act of moving forward is making your line wiggle around as you track down the road, then alignment is likely the issue. Lots of the things you've done recently can affect the subtle angles that make it track properly.

Dan
Author:  Gageraid [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Have you checked your tire pressure yet?
Not sure if a worn out belt would cause an issue, but maybe check that, too.
Author:  The_dealer [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Yea, I've played with the tire pressure. Tires are also brand new. Everything is tight, I've checked a few times. Guess I'll take it in tomorrow to a different shop and have the alignment checked
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Please check your rear
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Loll oops
Check your rear upper control arm if either bushing to the vehicle is shout the rest basically cocks around causing it to pull despite getting aligned over and over
Author:  The_dealer [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
They are new as well
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
i never ran my lift without JBA arms so i cant attest to alignment issues lifted without the arms, however with the arms Ive never had any alignment issues what so ever, it aligns perfect stock and keeps it

that being said, i had a set of 255-70/r16 dextero street tires that had a similar pattern to michelin ltx with a much softer compound and they drifted and pulled all over the dang place - they had no irregular wear or anything but the entire vehicle would wiggle back and forth , you could grab the rear bumper and shake the vehicle and it would keep right on shaking it's butt

when i switched to some used, and irregularly worn 245-75r16 mastercraft M/Ts every bit of the pull, wobble, wiggle, drift, etc stopped

switched to 235-85r16 ht's for a bit, again, no wobble wiggle drift etc

switched to general grabber red letters 31x10.5r15 and steelies, no wobble wiggle drift etc

is there someone with a set of 5x4.5 16 or 17" rims with a heavy set of tires non-passenger style you could test ride to see if its the tires , aside from that, my only other input would be to try a different shop preferably a firestone shop with lifetime alignments

i know you said the tires were new but my dextero's were new as well .. cheaper than used gum, but new
Author:  The_dealer [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
I'm running 245/75 wild country xtx. Was an improvement over the stock tires, but still have the issue
Author:  The_dealer [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
I talked to the guys at my dads(not his but the one he uses) alignment shop, and I'm taking it in tomorrow after lunch. I explained about the forum and lifted kj's, and they said if I had special instructions they'd do them instead of stock specs. What should I be looking for? Just from general knowledge I'm thinking less than .5* cross caster, but try to get it at least 3*. What about camber, cross camber, and toe? I'm sure someone has a recommendation, besides "just align to spec".
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
The_dealer wrote:
I talked to the guys at my dads(not his but the one he uses) alignment shop, and I'm taking it in tomorrow after lunch. I explained about the forum and lifted kj's, and they said if I had special instructions they'd do them instead of stock specs. What should I be looking for? Just from general knowledge I'm thinking less than .5* cross caster, but try to get it at least 3*. What about camber, cross camber, and toe? I'm sure someone has a recommendation, besides "just align to spec".

Camber as close to center of OE spec(along with cross camber,OE spec),cross caster within 0.5 degrees(less is better) and if that means 2-3 degrees so be it,and toe set to OE spec.


From what your experiencing over inflated tires(or a bad tire causing radial pull),worn(or just bad "new") rear control arm bushings,and low caster are the most likely causes.


Less caster means easier low speed steering but "wonders" at high speeds,more caster has harder low speed steering but more stable feeling at higher speeds.
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Camber must be set as close to the center specs as possible.
Cross caster must be within 0.5 degrees If toe and camber are within specs you're pretty good shape. Cross caster must be no more than .5 and at least 2-3 degrees
You can sacrifice some caster but cross caster must be within 0.5

I ran at 3.75 inches or more :wink: of lift for 70,000 miles before we started getting the JBA UCAs, never had an alignment issue, so highly doubt its them
More tires or a worn / bad new part


Never mind Troy beat me to it :banghead: :-)r
Author:  The_dealer [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Lol, glad you guys chimed in. I know it's not a tire thing since it was present before and after the new tires. I even rotated them just to rule out anything. Both new and old tires I've played with the tire pressure from 32-38 psi. Generally I do the chalk method to determine psi. The new 245's like 36 psi the best. Everything suspension is new, and has very low miles. The rear has less than 1500 miles, and everything else less than 5k. I also go the extra mile with suspension work, loosening components (uca/lca, Sway bars, track bars, etc) then after driving around the block I torque everything (level ground). I've had instances where arms were binding after a lift and causing weird handling. I'll take this info to the alignment shop, and hold their hands if I have to. To think, I can install 8 adjustable arms, square everything to the frame, set wheelbase, set caster and toe accurately, and center the axle's with a angle finder and tape measure(in the driveway)...but ifs alignments are black magic.
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
lol.. aint that right.. pipe wrench and a good ol alignment slide ruler bar
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
The_dealer wrote:
but ifs alignments are black magic.

No different then solid axle alignments.If you know what the angles are and how it effects the vehicle just looking at a alignment printout you should be able to tell if it will pull or wear tires.
Author:  The_dealer [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Tjkj2002 & tommudd, since I have your attention I have an issue I need ideas with. I removed my stock rear upper to work on an adjustable boomerang with Duroflex on the frame end, and jj on the axle end. The idea was supposed to be to get measurements, tack it together and test fit. Was going to reinstall the stock upper until I could work on it again. The caged nut on the drivers side came loose, but I ended up fishing it back in place. I don't know what holds this nut in place, but I'm guessing some sort of thin tabs. I can tighten and lossen the bolt with no problems (it's kept from spinning). Its too tight of a fit to get my welder in there to burn it into place. Now, I'm 100% sure this isn't the problem, since this just happened recently. I'm hoping you or tommudd can give me some ideas on how to repair this. Is there an access hole from up under the carpet? Should I drill a hole in that "channel" that it's in and try to bend back whatever holds it in? I can't get my welder in to weld the caged nut, so my other idea was to cut a section out , weld the nut, and weld the section back in (I can get my welder in there to weld a bigger section.

Even with the caged nut being somewhat loose in the larger hole, there isn't much play. The bolt did keep working loose after the first 150 miles or so, but since the last re-torquing hasn't worked loose. I was hoping since tommudd lives where rust grows, he might have had to repair the caged nut.

I took the KJ in for the alignment today, but they weren't able to get to it today. I told them I was fine with bringing it back so it wasn't rushed. So I have an appointment first thing In the am. Owning a shop, I can understand how bad things can get behind when u have issues on just one job.
Author:  The_dealer [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Is it time for some JBA arms??
Well, it ended up being the alignment. The one tire had a bunch of negative camber, the other a bunch of positive. While barely in spec for both sides, the cross camber was horrible. Same with cross caster (almost 1.5* difference). The caster is still somewhat low at a little over 2*, but drives fine. I felt alot more comfortable when the new shop got measurements of how it sat when I came in, than zeroed the camber/caster bolts to start fresh. Huge difference in before and after. I went on a good highway trip to the Truck & Jeepfest, and the kj drove better than it ever has.

Anyone have any ideas on the rear uca cage nut problem?
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