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LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85079		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  JTLibertyUK [ Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
Hi All,

Following other issues on my 2004 2.5 CRD, which are mostly fixed now(!), I'm now having some issues starting the beast. It started randomly last week and hasn't done it before.

It cranks for some time (5+ seconds mostly, sometimes longer, sometimes with several key turns) and it can throw out a little puff of smoke when it eventually fires, but I assume this is because of the 'richness' due to long cranking times. It generally runs OK, but if you blip the throttle during initial fast running the revs drop to almost stalling, then pick up straight away. It hasn't stalled whilst driving and there doesn't appear to be any power loss (although it's never been a quick motor!).
I've plugged a diagnostic tool into it as well and there's no fault codes.

I've taken the battery off, charged it fully, tested it (12V standing and peaking at about 13.5V on revving), so assume the battery and alternator are OK?
I've also 'jumped' it from another vehicle to see if it helped, but all it did was make the starter spin a bit quicker, but didn't fire the engine into action any quicker.

I need to change the fuel filter as it looks old (and I don't know how long it's been on there), so I'm hoping that's the main cause of the problem. I have one on order. I also wonder if there's a bit of air in the system, as I let it get down to '90 miles to go' and parked on a slant (although I've done this before with no issues).

So I'm thinking it might be one of (or a combination of) the following issues:
- Fuel Filter (clogged, air, loose 'stuff' in it),
- Starter / alternator / battery breaking down.
- injectors clogged/worn,
- fuel pump issues,
- glow plugs (although I'd expect there to have been a fault code).

I've also read another thread that talks about a lifter pump at the tank, bleeding the head on the fuel filter and all that good stuff, so I'll have a tinker with all that too.

Any bright ideas from anyone would be much appreciated so I can get it back running like normal.
Although, while it's not running properly and the weather's nice here in the UK at the moment, at least I have an excuse to be out on the motorbike! 8)

Cheers!
Author:  Pippobug [ Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
It sound like you have covered all the points you need to check. I would start with changing the fuel filter and make sure you buy a good one as it make the difference specially when winter come round in UK (and if you are filling up at Supermarket stations). Then I would look at fuel lines & possibly as a last resort a good clean out of the tank if needed. I don't personally think it's the starter that is causing issues, you might have a faulty glow plug. Also to check any engine error codes on the CRD2.5 you need to check them with the Key not ODB reader. Turn the key 3 time on and off and it will give you any stored error codes, be quick and writing the codes down, it might take a bit of practice to get the error codes out.

Fil.
Author:  JTLibertyUK [ Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
Great, thanks for that!

The fuel filter should be here soon. Yes, I'm filling up at Supermarkets too (Tesco and Morrisons!).
Mine looks like it's had a new tank sometime before I bought it, but I guess they can get a bit caked up inside.

It was suggested by a local garage that the glow plugs were probably past their best (they had trouble starting it after I took it in for clutch replacement), so that's on my list to do as well..!

Interesting about the error codes - I didn't know that method of retrieving them. I've been using the ODB reader. I'll give that a go!

I'll post back with an update once I've got to the bottom of it all.

Cheers.
Author:  JTLibertyUK [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
So I thought I'd post back with an update...

Fuel filter changed (and I noticed that the original was a tiny bit loose), but the issue still remained. Still difficult to start, but if primed vigorously at the fuel head/filter primer (every time I tried to start) it would eventually fire, but stutter a lot, before stalling, then repeating the process until it eventually ran OK.

I ended up getting a bit of clear hose and attaching it to the incoming fuel hose so I could see if there were bubbles coming up from the tank. This actually showed that, on blipping the throttle, bubbles were going back down the pipe towards the tank (from the head). So I swapped the clear hose over to the pipe going to the engine. This showed a mass of bubbles from the head towards the fuel pump!

Excellent! Issue diagnosed! Now to fix it...!

I've taken the fuel filter head off and put PTFE around every thread. I cleaned it up and re-seated the filter as tight as I dare on the head. At the moment it seems like it's OK, but I'll give it another try again tonight. I'll leave the clear hose on for now, so I can be on 'bubble watch'..!

I'm wondering if I should upgrade the fuel filter head? I've read that you can retrofit the head from the later Cherokee/Liberty's (which looks like it takes a different filter). Does anyone know if the wiring and connections are the same as the heater/water connections on a 2004 CRD KJ?

Any more news and I'll post back.

Cheers :5SHOTS:
Author:  lacabrera [ Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
Hi, stick to the filter head you have, The version fitted to face lift models are sh-t. It would pay to fit a lift pump within the fuel tank or an inline one.
Author:  JTLibertyUK [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
lacabrera wrote:
Hi, stick to the filter head you have, The version fitted to face lift models are sh-t. It would pay to fit a lift pump within the fuel tank or an inline one.


Thanks, will do. I was reading through some historical posts about the filter/head unit, as I thought the one I had was worse, but it turns out the later model with the banjo bolts and 'puck' heater is the more problematic one, as you say!

One thing I hadn't actually done (doh!) was bleed the head using the little screw on the top right of the head. Did that last night and it all seems good now. The only thing I seem to have done is tightened up the bleed screw a bit too much and partially stripped the thread in the head. I've got a full set of taps & die's, so I'll have a go at re-tapping it with a bigger bolt/o-ring.
Worst case, I end up buying a new Parker/Racor 245R head and filter system (about £100 online with a 30-micron filter).

I've read many pros and cons of having a lift pump so I'm still undecided. I'll see how I get on with this head for now and if the issue persists, I'll consider a lift pump.

Gotta love those diesels!! :JEEPIN:
Author:  lacabrera [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
If you decide to go with a lift pump, there is no electrical feed under the rear seat on the pre face lift model, but you can access the fuel sender without removing the fuel tank. The fuel hoses at the fuel tank on mine were causing most of my problems with air in fuel.
Author:  JTLibertyUK [ Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: LIberty/Cherokee 2.5 CRD Starting Issues
lacabrera wrote:
If you decide to go with a lift pump, there is no electrical feed under the rear seat on the pre face lift model, but you can access the fuel sender without removing the fuel tank. The fuel hoses at the fuel tank on mine were causing most of my problems with air in fuel.


Great, thanks for the info.

On mine, thinking about it, I believe the slightly loosened filter must have let air into the head and when I replaced the filter I didn't bleed it properly. Air only seemed to be going from the head to the pump/rail and nothing appeared to be coming up from the tank.

It actually looks like I have a newish tank on mine, but I'll drop it sometime and have a scout around, see what the connections are like.
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