Can I add LSD? Fist post, Fist Jeep

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum and my first Jeep. I am going later today to pick up a 2005 Liberty CRD.

Quick Summary of Vehicle:
It is in overall good shape. It has a small lift kit 2-3 inches that is all spring. I think arms were replaced too but I’m unsure. The torque converter was also replaced (not sure with what). I am installing the Greed Diesel Engineering Eco Tune. It will tow a boat with gear which is unlikely to ever get above 4,500. It will be driven to work frequently in an area with lots of snow. The focus will be on MPG and reliability. I am considering the removable thermostat swap, switching to an electric fan, adding a plate style fuel heat exchanger, and some other things.

My referenced build sheet shows I have no LSD from the factory. I have read lots of good and bad about the trac-loc system. Either way I see it as an upgrade in this snowy region. I seems I can buy a rebuilt trac-loc for under 400.

What would be entailed with adding trac-loc? Is it an easy swap of parts that I can do (I have torch and press)? About how long would it take?

If it is easy enough, I will do it and probably look for a differential cover with added volume and a drain plug. Any recommendations on a cheap cover?

Thanks

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:19 am

Welcome to the addiction!
First and most important is the timing belt, when was it last changed? You did not list the mileage; timing belt replacement is recommended at 100,000 miles! If yours has over 100k and has not been previously changed, it is way over the recommended mileage and time. These are interference engines and if the timing belt breaks or slips, bad things can and will happen when valves contact pistons. :grim:

You can change the belt yourself if you do your own wrenching, or find someone who is familiar with this engine to do it for you!
Do not let anyone touch this engine who is not familiar with it's unique requirements, it is not the same as other engines.... :roll:

Second, read the NOOB thread; lots of great information in this thread for new CRD owners!
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54207

After that, post your questions on LOST and you will get answers, lots of great people on here more than willing to help... :wink:

As to the LSD, they are very good units and that is what Mopar installed at the factory on some vehicles. A new LSD carrier can be purchased for less than 500 bucks if you shop around! I would not waste time on a used unit!!! Lunch Box Lockers can be bought for less and do not require replacement of the carrier. They are installed between the spider gears and can be installed by most home mechanics using simple hand tools!
Some prefer a full blown locker carrier and they get quite a bit more expensive. Guess it depends on your needs?
A press and set up tools along with experienced knowledge are required to replace any carrier along with its bearings. Going into a differential, I would recomend replacing ALL bearings and seals along with the axle bearings and axle seals while you got it apart!

Heavy duty aluminum covers with drain and fill plugs can be found for a little over 100 bucks if you look around ebay and others.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Thanks for the reply. I have read through the nob section. It is a great resource. The Liberty has 115,000 and the timing belt was replaced.

I have not worked inside a differential before. Am I correct in understanding only the carrier would need swapped for trac-loc? Is that easy? Is the other stuff good but not needed?

What would it cost to go to a shop and have it rebuilt and add the trac-loc?

I don’t know what a lunch box locker is, could you explain a little or give a link to one? EDIT: Just found them and they are attractive but I seem to remember someone saying you lose drivability especially in snow w/ say the Aussie locker. Would this make more sense:
https://www.powertrax.com/traction-syst ... ze%3A_ANY_

ALSO, I could only find that diff cover for 180 on ebay. Do you have a better source?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:22 pm

Are you sure you 05 CRD doesn't have a limited slip differential?
Or is it a 06 with electronic traction control?

Easy way to check.
1. Chock the front wheels
2. Put trans in N
3. Jack both rear wheels off the ground
4. Spin one wheel forward
If the other rear wheel spins the same direction you have some sort of trac lock or limited slip.
If they spin opposite directions it's a open diff.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

The VIN didn't show it has one but I will certainly check before I buy anything. If nothing else, incase a previous owner installed one. Good tip.

I am also unsure how accurate the VIN lookup is. It could be spot on and......

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:40 pm

For a little more go with the Detroit true track and never have to replace clutches :2cents:

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:41 pm

Science and Energy wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I have read through the nob section. It is a great resource. The Liberty has 115,000 and the timing belt was replaced.
That is a very good thing for you!
I have not worked inside a differential before. Am I correct in understanding only the carrier would need swapped for trac-loc? Is that easy? Is the other stuff good but not needed?
Yes, only the carrier, but it would need new bearings pressed onto it and the backlash play set up properly (requires special tools)! The other stuff is just being proactive while you already have the differential apart and axles removed. Not required unless they are already bad, but a good thing to do while you got it apart! :wink:

What would it cost to go to a shop and have it rebuilt and add the trac-loc?
Most shops around here get 200-300 labor to replace and set up a carrier!
I don’t know what a lunch box locker is, could you explain a little or give a link to one? EDIT: Just found them and they are attractive but I seem to remember someone saying you lose drivability especially in snow w/ say the Aussie locker. Would this make more sense:
https://www.powertrax.com/traction-syst ... ze%3A_ANY_
That is a Lunch Box Locker! Lockers are different and behave much differently on the street than a posi-tractions like the Track-lock! And they make a clicking noise when unlocking and re-locking. I personally prefer the Track-lock type's behavior and no noise.
ALSO, I could only find that diff cover for 180 on ebay. Do you have a better source?

Do a search for "G2 Chrysler differential cover 8.25" :google:

summitracing.com, 4wheelparts.com, southernoffroad.com, and several vendors on eBay have them for ~$120...
:SOMBRERO:

u2slow · **Joined:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm **Posts:** 160

I've run lunchbox lockers in the front and rear of a few different vehicles. So quick and easy to install in a rear axle. The powertrax No-Slip is the best behaved IMO.

I have two buddies that ditched their helical-type LSDs (true-trac, torsen, etc) because they didn't meet expectations. One was an 8.8" in a Bronco II, the other was a 11.5" in a '06 Dodge truck. That said, I've picked up cheap used Lockrights because people couldn't get used to them. YMMV.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:07 pm

u2slow wrote:

I've run lunchbox lockers in the front and rear of a few different vehicles. So quick and easy to install in a rear axle. The powertrax No-Slip is the best behaved IMO.

I have two buddies that ditched their helical-type LSDs (true-trac, torsen, etc) because they didn't meet expectations. One was an 8.8" in a Bronco II, the other was a 11.5" in a '06 Dodge truck. That said, I've picked up cheap used Lockrights because people couldn't get used to them. YMMV.

The lunch box style do give amazing traction. I put an Aussie locker in the front of a4ruuner and it was impressive, to bad you can't do that in our jeeps because the front is always connected to the diff.
I'd go Detroit in the rear if you don't have to drive more than 20 mph on icy roads :grim:

The dtt is invisible and usually just requires pressing on some bearings which is easy, but it doesn't throw 100% of the traction to the non slipping tires instantly like the lunch box do :rockon:

u2slow · **Joined:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:26 pm **Posts:** 160

Mountainman wrote:

The lunch box style do give amazing traction. I put an Aussie locker in the front of a4ruuner and it was impressive, to bad you can't do that in our jeeps because the front is always connected to the diff.
I'd go Detroit in the rear if you don't have to drive more than 20 mph on icy roads :grim:

The No-slip does fine in our full-time front diffs. Invisible in 2wd.

I have logged hundreds of miles of winter highways with a locker. It's an acquired taste perhaps, but you have a lot of control over it with a manual trans.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Thanks everyone for the info. I broke my wallet and ordered a Detroit TrueTrac. I am not looking to do intense off roading, just small stuff. This should net better capability there and in snow.

I saw some rebuild kits online and some video are out there. How tuff is it to rebuild the rear diff yourself?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:28 am

Science and Energy wrote:

Thanks everyone for the info. I broke my wallet and ordered a Detroit TrueTrac. I am not looking to do intense off roading, just small stuff. This should net better capability there and in snow.

I saw some rebuild kits online and some video are out there. How tuff is it to rebuild the rear diff yourself?

It is not a terrible job; it does require a few special tools like a dial indicator for setting backlash play and the tool for rotating the carrier side play and preload bearing retainers. You also will need a hydraulic press or access to one to install bearings on the carrier. Experiance goes a long way in working on differentials, but if watch some videos and do some reading in some repair manuals and take your time, you can do it! :wink:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:19 am

You'll want to Google the gear pattern or whatever it's called for used gears unless you're replacing them. The pattern is a lot different than the guides show for a new set of gears,, just press out the pinion and replace the seal, a slightly oversized bearing is invaluable for setting pinion depth. You'll need the tool to set the end play and about 3 feet worth of extensions as well as the usual install kit, and massive cheater bar which will likely need to be 3/4" drive, or a very high torque impact makes the job much easier.
I use a tiny cheap old school dial torque wrench to measure drag of new bearings when torquing down pinion nut

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:41 am

Mountainman wrote:

You'll want to Google the gear pattern or whatever it's called for used gears unless you're replacing them. The pattern is a lot different than the guides show for a new set of gears,, just press out the pinion and replace the seal, a slightly oversized bearing is invaluable for setting pinion depth. You'll need the tool to set the end play and about 3 feet worth of extensions as well as the usual install kit, and massive cheater bar which will likely need to be 3/4" drive, or a very high torque impact makes the job much easier.
I use a tiny cheap old school dial torque wrench to measure drag of new bearings when torquing down pinion nut

Never heard of an oversized pinion bearing? Pinion depth is determined or adjusted by the thickness of the shim or shims placed under the big pinion bearing closest to the pinion gear.

If only replacing just the carrier and using the same ring & pinion gears, there is no need to fool with the pinion bearings unless one of them is bad or you want to replace the pinion seal.
But you are right about that pinion nut, if you take it off it requires some hefty tools to get it torqued back correctly and have the pinion bearings pre-loaded correctly.
If you pull the pinion gear out for any reason, it will require a new crush sleeve as well....

I have changed plenty of carriers out to posi-traction ones and never touched the pinion parts. Just adds lots of extra work if you don't need to!

As to the used gear contact pattern, as long as you do not change to different or new gears and you do not disturb the the pinion gear; gear contact should go back to exactly what it was provided you get gear backlash and carrier bearing preload set correctly. I would still check gear pattern with some red or yellow paint paste to be sure it looks good! :wink:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm

Yeah, my terrible terminology. I'm talking about "set up" bearings that just have the center honed out slightly to easy slide on and off the pinion which makes setting depth easy, but you're right, as long as the parts go back together like they came apart, just need the seal and crush sleeve. I wouldn't leave the old seal in there because if you have a press all you need is the ability to put about 500 ft pounds on the but, and a tiny torque wrench to measure the preload

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

I am pretty sure the pinion bearing is bad based on the sound coming from the rear end. To make maters worse, I just started a new thread because I think the rockers just bit the dust after owning it less than a week. I will need to work that out before I start this now.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Sorry to hear about the motor. Good call on the TruTrac though, much better than the trash loc. When in snow or ice, be careful and use fulltime if you have it. Trutracs and trashlocs like to swap the front and rear wheels in the slick stuff and can put you in a ditch if you are not careful. ESP helps there, but can kill your power.

Science and Energy · **Joined:** Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:12 am **Posts:** 246

Thanks
Did you mean to say front and rear? Wouldn't it only affect left to right on the rear axle?

Can I add LSD? Fist post, Fist Jeep

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