It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:07 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:34 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
Ok so I have been fighting outside tire wear on my jeep and have gotten at least two alignments a year plus rotations with no good fix.

I finally brought it down to this shop in SLC who specializes in alignments and they are telling my my rear diff/axle housing is bent such that the rear tires are toeing in. In other ward the fronts of the tires are pointed towards the center of the car, the rear of the tires are pointing out away from the car.

He seems to think it must be from the axle catching on something because usually In a rear end collision it would bend the other way.

What would even cause this and what is the best option? Do I find a used axle somewhere and do a swap? Is there a good way to tell if the used axle is not also bent? Are the 2006-2007 axles totally different than the previous years or could I swap parts from my axle and make something work?

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:34 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 7157
Location: Central GA
Bending a rear axle housing or tube requires some extreme external force unless it was built that way at the factory! :shock:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:54 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
Must be all that heavy duty diesel torque. Has the wheels trying to pass the differential. (smirk) :ROTFL:

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:11 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
WWDiesel wrote:
Bending a rear axle housing or tube requires some extreme external force unless it was built that way at the factory! :shock:


I asked the guy that. Im like, I think I would have known if I bent the axle at some point so unless the previous owner did something I dont believe it.

Could this be bad bearings that cause this? When you are driving the wheels would want to pull forward and so when they drive it up on the alignment rack it might have them toed forward.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:29 am 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4962
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
Quote:
Could this be bad bearings that cause this? When you are driving the wheels would want to pull forward and so when they drive it up on the alignment rack it might have them toed forward.

Could be.
But thats pretty easy to check and diagnose.
I would think that if it were actually bent axle tube(s) that it would put some strain on the carrier bearings and spider gears. But I have never experienced such a thing.

Probably should also check the lower control arms and bushings.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:24 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 7157
Location: Central GA
mass-hole wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Bending a rear axle housing or tube requires some extreme external force unless it was built that way at the factory! :shock:

I asked the guy that. Im like, I think I would have known if I bent the axle at some point so unless the previous owner did something I dont believe it.
Could this be bad bearings that cause this? When you are driving the wheels would want to pull forward and so when they drive it up on the alignment rack it might have them toed forward.

When you pull a vehicle onto an alignment rack, all the tires are placed onto pads that when you pull the locking pins out of the pads, which set on roller bearings, they allow the entire suspension to relax so nothing is under any stress during the alignment measuring and adjustment process.
I have performed untold number of alignments on many types of vehicles over the years and have never encountered a negative toe between just the two rear wheels on a solid tube type rear axle unless it was involved in a wreck or accident! If the rear axle was bent due to an accident, it required replacing the entire assembly! There was no straightening it!
On an independent rear suspension you can adjust toe-in, but on a solid rear axle about the only thing you can do is to make sure the rear axle assembly is aligned parallel to the front tires so they all track together in a straight line.

If an axle bearing was worn enough to cause what you described, it would be extremely noisy and leaking oil profusely as it would have already wiped the axle seal. Not to mention as others stated all the negative or adverse effects it would have on the carrier components! :shock:

Another possibility would be a bent wheel, but I would hope your alignment person checked wheel run-out?
My guess would be equipment malfunction giving a false reading or the operator is not competent? (hate to say this not knowing the operator! :roll: )
If it were mine, I would get a second opinion from a different alignment shop! :wink:

Keep us posted, I am most interested in the outcome!!!! :POPCORN:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Last edited by WWDiesel on Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:30 am 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
WWDiesel wrote:
Not mention as Gordon stated all the negative or adverse effects it would have on the carrier components! :shock:


That was Flash being constructive. I was just being a smarta$s.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:17 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
WWDiesel wrote:
mass-hole wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Bending a rear axle housing or tube requires some extreme external force unless it was built that way at the factory! :shock:

I asked the guy that. Im like, I think I would have known if I bent the axle at some point so unless the previous owner did something I dont believe it.
Could this be bad bearings that cause this? When you are driving the wheels would want to pull forward and so when they drive it up on the alignment rack it might have them toed forward.

When you pull a vehicle onto an alignment rack, all the tires are placed onto pads that when you pull the locking pins out of the pads, which set on roller bearings, they allow the entire suspension to relax so nothing is under any stress during the alignment measuring and adjustment process.
I have performed untold number of alignments on many types of vehicles over the years and have never encountered a negative toe between just the two rear wheels on a solid tube type rear axle unless it was involved in a wreck or accident! If the rear axle was bent due to an accident, it required replacing the entire assembly! There was no straightening it!
On an independent rear suspension you can adjust toe-in, but on a solid rear axle about the only thing you can do is to make sure the rear axle assembly is aligned parallel to the front tires so they all track together in a straight line.

If an axle bearing was worn enough to cause what you described, it would be extremely noisy and leaking oil profusely as it would have already wiped the axle seal. Not to mention as others stated all the negative or adverse effects it would have on the carrier components! :shock:

Another possibility would be a bent wheel, but I would hope your alignment person checked wheel run-out?
My guess would be equipment malfunction giving a false reading or the operator is not competent? (hate to say this not knowing the operator! :roll: )
If it were mine, I would get a second opinion from a different alignment shop! :wink:

Keep us posted, I am most interested in the outcome!!!! :POPCORN:


Image

Is that even out that far? .39* total seems like nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:43 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 4962
Location: Green Cove Springs FL
That doesn't seem like enough to worry about.
And there is nothing you can do to change it.
About the only thing you can do is replace the lower control arms and convince yourself that its all better.

_________________
U.S. Army Retired


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:11 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 12988
Location: Colorado Springs
I can tell you they moved the heads to get the L/R and R/R exactly at the same reading.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:21 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
flash7210 wrote:
That doesn't seem like enough to worry about.
And there is nothing you can do to change it.
About the only thing you can do is replace the lower control arms and convince yourself that its all better.


I could replace the control arms to get the axle straight again, but there would still be toe, it would just be .19 on each side instead of .26 on one side and .13 on the other.

I'd have to replace the axle to fix the toe.

.19 on each side doesnt sounds like much but its outside of Jeeps spec for the front end. The max toe on the front is .16.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:40 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:12 pm
Posts: 2505
Location: Oregon Coast Dairy Country. Land of stumps, dumps, and "Liquid Pumps"
I don't think even replacing it would get much better.

1) Total Toe at 0.39 degrees over the length of the vehicle is only about 5/8 inch.
BUT
really tracking is the only function to worry about, and since both sides have positive toe, they subtract. Not add.
SO
2) you're only looking at tracking toe of 0.13 degrees shifting the rear of the vehicle roughly 3/32" to the right of the front.

Seriously, are you worried about that? I'll bet that's way less than the margin of repeatable error of either machine or operator, and definitely beyond the capability of both together.

Not only would a different shop get a different reading, you couldn't even take it back to the same operator at the same shop and get the same result without them faking it.

_________________
'06 Lbrty Sprt CRD 150K

Sasquatch
DSS Turbo
CAT-elimntr
Weeks Stg1&2 EGRfix
PV-200
BLING
vent gauges

IDParts
head
cams
rockers
Timing set
ARP studs
eTn1 GX2123 5v GPs

YETI Custom Tune
Flowmaster 8325508
Carter P76611M
GM 12611872
Hayden 2986
GM 15976889
PATC Custom Billet
2010 Ram Hemi Trans
Sonnax 44957
Transgo kit
Cooper 51770


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:12 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
GordnadoCRD wrote:
Seriously, are you worried about that? I'll bet that's way less than the margin of repeatable error of either machine or operator, and definitely beyond the capability of both together.

Not only would a different shop get a different reading, you couldn't even take it back to the same operator at the same shop and get the same result without them faking it.


I guess that's what I am trying to figure out. should I be worried or just leave it? This all came up because the Jeep ate my Duratracs alive in like 7000 miles but it was on the front which has always been in spec. The rears werent even the issue. I've started rotating them every 3-4 k which doesnt seem like much, but its just another thing on the list of crap to do.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:02 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 7157
Location: Central GA
Sorry, changing the control arms on the rear will NOT change rear axle toe from left to right wheel, only tracking as compared to front wheels in parallel straight lines!
0.039 is 1/16 over 3/8 of an inch or 25/64
Still not sure how a solid straight rear axle could have a lot of negative toe unless something is bent!

But if you are not having a problem with rear tire wear indicative of negative toe, I would simply ignore it or better yet if you are concerned, take it to a another good alighment shop and see if they are able to repeat the readings, but just don't tell them about the first readings you got. Sort of like a blind test!
:juggle:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:02 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:21 pm
Posts: 2137
Location: Utah
WWDiesel wrote:
Sorry, changing the control arms on the rear will NOT change rear axle toe from left to right wheel, only tracking as compared to front wheels in parallel straight lines!
0.039 is 1/16 over 3/8 of an inch or 25/64
Still not sure how a solid straight rear axle could have a lot of negative toe unless something is bent!

But if you are not having a problem with rear tire wear indicative of negative toe, I would simply ignore it or better yet if you are concerned, take it to a another good alighment shop and see if they are able to repeat the readings, but just don't tell them about the first readings you got. Sort of like a blind test!
:juggle:


No it would only straighten the axle with respect to the body, and make the toe even on each side(.19/.19)

I think i am gunna just ignore it. I've been driving it like this for a long time I assume and I am not sure that the rear has anything to do with the tire wear.

_________________
2006 CRD - GTB2056 turbo by Dieselguy86, Eco Trans Tune, Lift Pump, Week's, HDS Tstat, Racor Filter, ARP's, OME 790's+Top Plate, JBA 2.5", JBA UCA, Moab's+265/75R16, ARB Bull Bar, 4.10's, TrueTracs


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Bent rear axle/diff housing
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:56 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 7157
Location: Central GA
mass-hole wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Sorry, changing the control arms on the rear will NOT change rear axle toe from left to right wheel, only tracking as compared to front wheels in parallel straight lines!
0.039 is 1/16 over 3/8 of an inch or 25/64
Still not sure how a solid straight rear axle could have a lot of negative toe unless something is bent!

But if you are not having a problem with rear tire wear indicative of negative toe, I would simply ignore it or better yet if you are concerned, take it to a another good alighment shop and see if they are able to repeat the readings, but just don't tell them about the first readings you got. Sort of like a blind test!
:juggle:


No it would only straighten the axle with respect to the body, and make the toe even on each side(.19/.19)

I think i am gunna just ignore it. I've been driving it like this for a long time I assume and I am not sure that the rear has anything to do with the tire wear.

I agree! Sometimes we tend to overthink things! :ROTFL:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Week's BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 Bld.fan/HDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount

98 Dodge Cummins 24 Valve


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com