Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:13 pm

Tell them you won't give them bad reviews if they just give you the rest of the engine that the bigger one fits.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Tell them you won't give them bad reviews if they just give you the rest of the engine that the bigger one fits.

Ha ha ha. I haven't looked into the 2.4L engine but I suppose it's a 4-banger gasser. Don't need it.

Took the top off the *Other 2006 2.8L CRD* and removed the hydraulic lash adjusters.

Built a simple tester to check all the lash adjusters. I'll take pictures tomorrow and post my thoughts of how the lash adjusters should be tested. Certainly I'll need some input from the forum to make everything accurate.

I'll take the 16 best ones and put them in the Jeep.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

First of all I would like to thank everyone that has posted their knowledge about hydraulic lash adjusters and how they work. I've been able to get this far by drawing from each person who has done this before.

One person said the lash plunger should move.
Another said it should not move until you push-to-release the check valve inside the lash adjuster body.
Someone else said their's would not move until they cleaned them in diesel.
One person said the plunger would move freely until the lash adjuster filled with oil.

So I built a simple test jig to test each lash adjuster, one at a time. The object was to put pressure on the top of the lash adjuster without covering up the hole on the top. I found a 3' length of aluminum flat stock in my junk pile and bent it in half to make the handle. Drilled a 1/2" hole in the tester base to locate the lash adjuster for testing. Then, using a small fender washer atop the lash adjuster, I could apply pressure on both sides of the washer while leaving the small hole accessible.

Dropped one lash adjuster in the hole at a time. Placed the small fender washer atop the adjuster. Started to push on the handle.

A small Allen wrench was perfect to press-to-release the check valve inside the lash adjuster. Started by testing all the lash adjusters from the *Other 2006 CRD*. Being the first time that engine had been opened, it provided a wide selection of totally worn out parts, worn-but-usable parts, and a few good parts.

I could easily press some hydraulic lash adjusters with my fingers, some were harder but still compressible, some were not compressible at all.

There is a second hole (above) in the test jig. This is for oil to supply the lash adjuster under test. There is a passage way from the big hole to the smaller hole that is not visible. This is to allow the lash adjuster to pump full of oil.

This picture (below) is tough to distinguish. It is the handle laying atop the washer atop the hydraulic adjuster. Also the small Allen wrench is setting inside the adjuster and standing up above the handle.

It didn't take long to determine that the good adjusters are the ones that could not be compressed until the Allen wrench was used to depress the check valve inside the adjuster body. Took a little feeling-around in the dark to locate the correct spot to press-to-open the check valve.

When the Allen wrench did press-to-open the check valve, then the plunger would collapse. It would also spring back up when pressure was released on the handle. It would compress and spring back several times until I released the Allen wrench. Then it would become solid again and UN-compressible when the check valve pressure was released.

Now, understanding how the good ones tested, I checked all of the lash adjusters from my Jeep. The bad news is they all tested good. This led me to the sobering conclusion that there is an oil delivery problem in the recently rebuilt head.

This could be caused by debris clogging the oil passageway, or the passageway had been welded closed when the machinist rebuilt the head and never re-drilled the passageway afterward.

I connected the remote starter button to the Jeep and cranked it over until oil started coming out. First it gushed out a passageway leading to the overhead cam shafts (now removed) in the head cover. So I mopped up the puddle and held a finger over that hole and continued cranking. As expected the first hydraulic lash bore for cylinder #1 started filling with oil. Installed that lash adjuster and continued - the second lash bore for cylinder #1 filled and overflowed. Installed that hydraulic lash adjuster.

Continued this way until cylinders 1, 2, and 3 intake adjuster bores were verified. That is where it stopped. #4 cylinder lash bores would not fill with oil.

Cleaned up the oily head and sat down for a beer. I now realize the head will have to come off and return it to the machinist to clear that oil passage.

I do, however, still have the head from the *Other 2006 CRD* that could be removed and refurbished.

Either way, this Jeep will not hit the road Monday.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:53 pm

That's a real bummer, but better you found it now rather than later. :shock:

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Parts arrived today from IDParts. Head gasket, set of bolts, connection rod journal bearings.

Have been hoping to get the head off after work throughout the week but it's been hot and I've been tired. Saturday I'll get the head off and take it to the machinist. He is planning to run a drill down the passenger-side galley in the head. (Driver's side in Australia)

I got new main rod bearings because I've heard a knock in the lower end. Seems to be coming from cylinder #1 but I heard it real loud on the motor mount. I doubt the main journal crankshaft bearings are bad, but I'm suspecting a loosened bolt on one of the rod caps. During the rebuild I used Thread Locker blue, but I only ran a stripe down one side of the threads. After GordnadoCRD said that I should use "gobs" of Thread Locker on the torque converter bolts, I started doubting the security of the rod cap bolts.

The PlastiGauge I used on the rod/main bearings showed the bearings were a little tight. I thought a little tight is better than a little loose so I continued forward. I'll find out the truth over the weekend. It should be a quick fix to change the rod journal bearings and keep going.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:21 am

Sorry to hear of the issues Dean!
I am a bit late commenting.
If you have not got to the removal yet, you could try blowing compressed air down the #3 hole. If its just crud blocking the gallery it may blow out the #4 hole. A piece of cloth over the #4 hole would catch it. The gallery must be drilled from one end. The end plug should be visible. Will be interesting to hear what the machinist concludes.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Got the engine out of the beast today and did not remove any of the radiators or front end components. It was a tight fit but it came out. By the end of the day it was on the engine stand again. There is a walking path in front of my house so I'm sure a lot of people are taking notice that the engine is out again.

GordnadoCRD's comments about using a lot of thread locker gave me some reflection today. When I took out the Torque Converter bolts I had to really work at breaking loose 3 of the 4 bolts. One was easy to loosen and I don't recall "breaking" loose four bolts. Clearly I did not "slather" one of the bolts as well with thread locker as the others.

Tonight, I have not taken the oil pan off but I expect to tomorrow. My visions of finding one con-rod cap loose is haunting me. Tomorrow I should find out.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

In all my years of "shade tree mechanic'n" I have never had to dig back into an engine. [Hmmm. Maybe the Volkswagen in high school. I got pretty good at taking that engine out]

This time I have been reflecting on the shock impulses in a 4-banger diesel. They are probably much greater than the jolts experienced in a gasser. Cylinders 1 & 4 move together, and 2 & 3 move together. When one of the synced pairs has a power stroke, the other synced piston is on the intake stroke. ie: One is pushing down on the crank journal while the other is getting yanked down. The one getting yanked is feeling forces on the connecting rod cap. If my use of thread locker was not sufficient, the cap bolts may have worked loose.

That is what I'm expecting to find tomorrow.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Removed the oil pan, oil draw tube, balance shaft assembly. Checked all 8 rod cap bolts and they were tight; one was torqued slightly less but still locked in. Only one of the bearings (#3) showed a tiny bit of abnormal wear but no evidence of a knock -- otherwise they all looked brand new.

During this week I will take out each piston & rod set and check the pin fit. I'll also use some Plastigauge on the rod journal bearings. I imagine a trip to the machinist will be of some help too.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Since the rod/journal bearings look so good, I'm forming a new prediction of what I'll find as the source of my engine knock. I recall bending one of the oil nozzles (#3) that shoots oil into the hole in the underside of the piston head. Even though I made a lot of effort to straighten it correctly, I'm starting to think I'll find a damaged piston/wrist pin.

Seen in this first picture is a tiny hole in the top of the rod. This is where lubrication gets from the underside of the piston head to the wrist pin. Suddenly it is seeming like a miraculous leap of faith to lubricate the wrist pin.

The tiny hole in the pictures (above) seems like a need for perfect alignment to rely on a splash of oil to lubricate the wrist pin.

This picture is a comparison of the old piston style (right) and the new piston style (left). The hole in the old style is lower on the piston than the new style.

The old style piston brings the hole completely down over the nozzle ensuring oil will course through the hollows of the piston head.

The new style piston has the hole higher inside the piston so the oil has to rely on the nozzle being straight and powerful enough to shoot up into the hollows of the piston head. Jeeps, being a vehicle that is subjected to rigorous terrain and jolts while driving, could have some oil miss the hole.

Didn't have time to dig into it today after work, but hopefully tomorrow. I'll examine the nozzle in #3 and assure it is pointing correctly.

These nozzles are one part that should still be good in the *other 2006 engine*. At any rate, these are not expensive parts to buy from IDParts.

Dean.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Tue May 07, 2019 3:26 pm

You sure they did not change the nozzle design to compensate and not really publish that important information?

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layback40 · **Posted:** Tue May 07, 2019 6:21 pm

The oil in the hollow is mainly there for cooling. With the engine running there is normally plenty of oil over the inside of the piston. I doubt that for the short amount of driving you have done will have done any damage. Is there oil holes feeding out into the pin hole in the piston from the cavities? Most of the pin movement should occur in the rod end not the piston. Normally there is a hole in the top of the rod to allow oil to find its way into that area to lubricate the rod/pin movement.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

WolverineFW wrote:

You sure they did not change the nozzle design to compensate and not really publish that important information?

I asked that question of IDParts and VM Specialists, and neither had an answer.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Just putting these specifications and instructions out here where I can find them quickly. There might be something interesting to the rest of you.

The first procedure indicates to torque the connecting rod bolts, then turn them another 40° tighter. It doesn't mention installing the connecting rod onto the crankshaft journal. Instead it indicates to measure the inside diameter of the connection rod.

The second procedure indicates to torque the connecting rod bolts, then turn them another 60° tighter. This process indicates to install the pistons and connect them to the crankshaft journal. No mention of measuring with PlastiGauge.

Connecting rod bearing play onto the crankshaft journal can be measured using the Sealed Power green PlastiGauge. Any of the squeezing measurement of this plastigauge is acceptable.

Dean.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2019 6:18 am

Have you found any clearances out of spec or is that scheduled for later?

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Have you found any clearances out of spec or is that scheduled for later?

I had intended to check these yesterday but my day did not go as planned. Today (Wednesday) is full already so possibly Thursday. Otherwise, definitely Saturday.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed May 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Not pushing.
I'm just following along. :POPCORN:

It's interesting to me as you have gone way past my personal experience relative to these engines.
I like your perseverance, as it matches mine when it comes to getting a proper result.
It really sucks though, when you have to go that deep time and again.
Hang in there! :BANANA:

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

I didn't think you were pushing. Can't push a rope anyway.

Thanks for the perseverance comment. I appreciate it although my wife doesn't see the humor in digging into the engine again. Part of what keeps me going is the camaraderie on this forum.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu May 09, 2019 1:23 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

I didn't think you were pushing. Can't push a rope anyway.
Thanks for the perseverance comment. I appreciate it although my wife doesn't see the humor in digging into the engine again. Part of what keeps me going is the camaraderie on this forum.
Dean.

Hey we all are rooting enthusiastically to lend moral support for you Dean from afar! Your tenacity is to be commended! :rockon:

I know how it feels to have to go back into a freshly built engine; been there, done that myself years ago due to a failed connecting rod. :furious:

And it was on a big ol 396 high performance big block. Rod took out block, piston, and oil pan, outch!

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Youch WWDiesel !! That one must have hurt. But that 396 came back like a pro, right?

My dad had a 1966 Caprice 396 that he drove like '...driving miss Daisy..." I was a teenager and wound that beast up and plopped it in drive (I thought) and peeled out for an entire acre frontage. About a half minute later I found I had thrown it in Low, but the transmission shifted up anyway. Somehow, no damage to it. Whew. But that has echoed in my soul ever since.

Tonight I Platiguaged the bottom end and all connecting rod journals are perfect. Allowable tolerances are 0.0008" to 0.0029" (or for all the truncators: .001" to .003").

Journal #1: 0.001"

Journal #2: 0.0015"

Journal #3: 0.0015"

Journal #4: 0.0015"

I'll take all four piston assemblies to the machinist tomorrow and let him determine the health of the pistons, wrist pins and connecting rod bearings. I will get a better look tomorrow about whether the oil dripping port on the bottom of the piston is aligned with the oil-accepting port on the top of the connecting rod.

All of the oil nozzles beneath the pistons look in excellent condition. I may change them anyway. Since the machinist found some "muddy" stuff in the head, one of them could be clogged. I'm certain there must be a larger galley through the block to each nozzle causing a bottleneck for oil flow. There was some muck around the bottom edges of the oil pan too.

Dean.

Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

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