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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:38 am 
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May 4, 2021. May the fourth be with me. Today I got my engine block back from the machinist. I took the block to the machinist sometime between May 13, 2020 and "7 months before Jan 17, 2021" according to my own posts. Doing the math on that doesn't add up.

This weekend I'll get busy on this engine again. The Homebrewers' meeting has been cancelled this month for Covid. That will give me time to dedicate to the engine. My wife will be delighted.

Dean.

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2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:16 pm 
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So was the 4th with you or did you succumb to the dark side?

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk

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Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 11:59 pm 
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The Fourth was with me. I got the bolts cleaned up and the engine back on the stand. Getting back to square-1 wasn't too bad. Cleaned the engine after it had sat in his machine shop for a year. Visually examined the oil jets he aimed for me and they seem to be correct; I'm banking on his good skills. Torqued the connecting rod bolts to spec and got ready to continue assembly.

I'll have to clean and lube each part before installing them since they've all sat in my work area for a year as well. Tomorrow the balance shaft assembly goes on along with the oil draw tube and oil pan & filter.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:33 am 
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Fingers crossed for you, CaptainDean. I hope it goes together and fires right up, with no issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:20 pm 
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Dean, I just hope you can remember where all the parts go. A year is a long time to try and remember where every different bolt/nut/part came from... :juggle: :dizzy:
Best of luck to you! :D

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05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
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SunCoast/Transgo
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 1:27 am 
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Just looked back in this thread and found the date I took the motor out: April 19, 2019. I can't believe I dug into the Jeep on my wife's birthday. No wonder it's taking so long to get this beast back together. I cursed myself by starting an engine project on her birthday. :grim:

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:11 am 
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Finally getting the engine back to a recognizable state. Feeling like I'm making progress. Actually got the rest of the engine assembled and the serpentine belt installed. My wife called out saying Martinis are ready so I just cleaned up and went inside without taking another picture.

Image

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:17 am 
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I want to pump some fresh oil through the engine & bearings before I crank it. What do I need to connect a high pressure oil pump to the oil filter threaded connection? I know it's not standard pipe thread.

Electric high pressure oil pump: Manfuacter & model suggestions... ?
Oil pump threaded connection: Maunfactuer & model number suggestions.... ?

Is there another method? Suggestions... ?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:12 pm 
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Just some thoughts.
I would simply disconnect the metal oil line fitting that goes to the turbo on the side of the block. That is a direct port into the main lube oil galley in the block that feeds everything.
Adapting to this threaded port should be quite easy. Where are you going to take your suction for your external oil pump from? You could use the oil drain in the oil pan, but I would still run it through an external oil filter to catch any fine particles.

Remote oil filter adaptors are plentiful online like the Derale 15708 Remote Filter Mount.
Image

I would NOT use a high pressure pump! You are only wanting to flush the the OIL system and low pressure would still provide the flow for this purpose and get the job done.

If you still want to use the oil filter nipple, the threaded nipple is 3/4-16 UNF threads. IT is NOT pipe threads. You will need a female 3/4-16 UNF fitting similar to the this: 1/2" ID 3/4-16 UNF Barbed Push On Female JIC 37/SAE 45 Swivel Connector

This is the flow path.

Image

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:35 am 
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Thank you WWDiesel,

This will get me on the way. The local hydraulic shop should have an adapter (female 3/4-16 UNF to 1/2 or 3/4 NPT). So, if I don't need a high pressure, positive displacement pump, then my ordinary transfer pump should circulate oil through the lube system.

I'd like to stay with the oil filter connection because it is so accessible. I will follow your other suggestion of including a filter housing. I have some good oil that needs a good polish job, and I can use it to polish the fuel tank as well.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:28 am 
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Got the engine together last weekend and looks good. Unfortunately it has no compression. :grim:

Talked with machinist; he says do a Leak Down test. Googled it and watched some YouTube University videos. Put together the connections to use compression tester hose in glow plug hole. I will be able to hear the path of air escaping the cylinder this coming weekend.

Before I do it, I'm suspecting the valves will be leaking even though they looked good. I think maybe they rusted during the year it sat on the bench.

Another possibility is the new set of hydraulic lash adjusters are not compressing (collapsing) and holding the valves open. I wondered about bending the valves but machinist says while hand cranking it's probably not a problem.

Any words of wisdom before I start this weekend?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:09 pm
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Location: Australia
CaptainDean wrote:
Got the engine together last weekend and looks good. Unfortunately it has no compression. :grim:

Talked with machinist; he says do a Leak Down test. Googled it and watched some YouTube University videos. Put together the connections to use compression tester hose in glow plug hole. I will be able to hear the path of air escaping the cylinder this coming weekend.

Before I do it, I'm suspecting the valves will be leaking even though they looked good. I think maybe they rusted during the year it sat on the bench.

Another possibility is the new set of hydraulic lash adjusters are not compressing (collapsing) and holding the valves open. I wondered about bending the valves but machinist says while hand cranking it's probably not a problem.

Any words of wisdom before I start this weekend?

Dean.


leak down is probably a good start.
You may hear the air rushing out if you have a valve leak.
If you put a couple of tea spoons in each cylinder, one at a time, you can see if its rings causing the problem. Do this after everything else and 1 cylinder at a time.
If a valve is stuck down, you will feel it hitting the piston when you turn by hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:44 pm 
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Thanks layback40,

The leak down test was all I needed. All the valves leak a little but #4 exhaust leaks the most.

I put regulated 20 PSI of continuous compressed air into each glow plug port one at a time. #1, 2 & 3 gave pretty good compression resistance on the breaker bar while turning by hand. I still heard some air leaking past intake and exhaust valves. Don't know how much is acceptable for a good metal-metal valve seal. #4 offered no compression resistance but a lot of air coming out the exhaust valves.

I didn't feel any contact of valve-to-piston so non-releasing hydraulic lash adjusters are probably not an issue.

My first thought was to attempt to deliver a mist of Ospho or Metal Prep to the valve surfaces, but that causes spring steel to be come very brittle. That won't be good for the rings.

Next step is to install the engine/trans adapter plate, flywheel and starter to crank the engine faster. Maybe that will slap the valves together and knock a chunk of rust off the valve surface.

Bottom line is I may have to take the head back off and have the valves freshened up. That means a new $200 head gasket and a new $100 set of head bolts.

Any other suggestions?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:03 pm 
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Location: Australia
CaptainDean wrote:
Thanks layback40,

The leak down test was all I needed. All the valves leak a little but #4 exhaust leaks the most.

I put regulated 20 PSI of continuous compressed air into each glow plug port one at a time. #1, 2 & 3 gave pretty good compression resistance on the breaker bar while turning by hand. I still heard some air leaking past intake and exhaust valves. Don't know how much is acceptable for a good metal-metal valve seal. #4 offered no compression resistance but a lot of air coming out the exhaust valves.

I didn't feel any contact of valve-to-piston so non-releasing hydraulic lash adjusters are probably not an issue.

My first thought was to attempt to deliver a mist of Ospho or Metal Prep to the valve surfaces, but that causes spring steel to be come very brittle. That won't be good for the rings.

Next step is to install the engine/trans adapter plate, flywheel and starter to crank the engine faster. Maybe that will slap the valves together and knock a chunk of rust off the valve surface.

Bottom line is I may have to take the head back off and have the valves freshened up. That means a new $200 head gasket and a new $100 set of head bolts.

Any other suggestions?

Dean.



A tea spoon of oil in each cylinder is normally enough to seal enough to get it going. As your machineist has already reseated and lapped the valves it is no more than cosmetic lapping them again. Once it starts the valves will seat tight as any surface rust will be soon gone.

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Australian KJ CRD 2006


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:00 am 
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Thanks for the suggestion layback40. These pistons have a hollow in the center which would catch any oil shot in through the injector port or the glow plug port and prevent it from getting to the rings. To administer a tea spoon of oil, I'll have to rotate the crankshaft to either of the 90° positions, then insert a tube through the glow plug port clear to the far side of the cylinder. This will direct the teaspoon of oil to the edge of the piston so the rings will get sealed.

There is so much work and risk involved in installing the engine without knowing the valves will seal properly. The 'risk' is all the work of removing the head once the engine is installed -- what a pain compared to working on the engine stand.

So, I'm glad you mentioned the teaspoon of oil; I now plan to install the engine/transmission adapter plate, flex plate, and starter to crank the engine faster. With a little oil in the cylinders, maybe I'll get a few pops that will spin the engine faster.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:48 pm 
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Dean,
If you use a syringe with a needle on it, you should be able to squirt the oil onto the bore or place the engine on its side. If you invert the engine it would probably seal the valves if they are just surface rusted. If that doesnt seal the valves, they are probably stuck open a little. When installing valves I like to give them a hit with a brass mallet to snap them shut.
A bit of oil in the top end doesnt hurt when starting.

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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 12:45 am 
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I had thought of tilting the engine on it's side to get the oil on the rings, but it is really heavy to turn back upright. I can do it, but I like the idea of spraying oil down a small tube.

I should have whacked the valves a couple times each before installing the head. That would have been a good idea, especially for a head that's been sitting on the table for a year. Presently, the head and head cover are installed. I'm hoping the oil and cranking with the starter does the trick.

If all this fails, then I'll have justification to pull the head back off and spend the $$$ for a gasket and bolts.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:10 am 
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Hello everyone, I'm back on line. Finally taking some time off work to get this beast back on the road. I've got 3 weeks, start counting !

This weekend I did tilt the engine on it's side and squirt some oil through the glow plug holes to lube the rings. Also filled the crankcase with oil. Cranked it by hand then hooked a battery and starter button to spin it faster. This process seemed to have taken care of cylinders 1-3 but not 4. Even with the glow plugs & injectors back in, it would show compression resistance for 3 cylinders and wheeze through #4.

Took the top off the head exposing the valve tops and intake ports. Shot some penetrating oil into #4's intake ports and it leaked right out. Hmmmph. So I took a mallet and whacked each valve top about a dozen times and checked again. This may have done it. :BANANA:

Poured some diesel into the ports and letting it sit overnight. See what happens tomorrow morning.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:49 am 
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Diesel was still in each of the intake ports in the morning, so tapping the valves to smack the surfaces together did the trick. Cranked the engine with the starter after emptying the intake ports, which shot diesel out of the injector and glow plug holes. Glad I'm not a smoker, I would have made a nice fireball.

Tipped the engine on it's side and repeated the process for the exhaust valves. That did the trick too. This saved me from having to take the head off.

So, cleaned everything up and started re-assembly. Put the hydraulic lash adjusters in some light oil to fill them, and installed the lifters & rockers.

Installed the head cover and torqued everything down. I'm feeling much better this time. Tomorrow I'll put the timing housing on and install the timing belt, etc. I'm anxious to feel the resistance of compression while hand cranking the engine.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:19 pm 
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Installed the timing housing, cam pulleys, idler pulleys, timing belt adjuster, and the timing belt. Felt good to get everything lined up again. Put on the timing belt cover and the crankshaft fanbelt pulley. Cranked it over by hand and was very pleased to feel a good amount of resistance for each cylinder's firing position.

Pressed the remote starter button and spun the engine over. Yay! No crashes or bangs, just some soot coming from the exhaust manifold. Wasn't quite enough fuel in the cylinders to get a few pops, but it was good to see dark soot smoke.

Put away my tools, took a shower and enjoyed a beer at 4:30 PM. Today was a good day.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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