Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

vwroad87 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:51 pm

Okay good job! Rear ends can last for a long time with noise if you didn't find any chunks of metal. If the carrier bearings are shot then you will hear more noise when going straight and less in turns down the highway. Pinion bearing make noise when accelerated and decelerating.
I had a boss that would have me pack bacon fat and sawdust into farmer's diffs that could afford a rebuild this season for their trucks. What a mess when they came back and I had to clean it all.

I just changed my motor mounts, not a big job, I did lift the passenger side mount out the top instead of the bottom as per GDE instructions. Good luck with the rest of your projects.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Thanks vwroad87,

I'm no professional but of the YouTube videos I watched, your assessment is correct.

This time I was lucky in finding no chunks of metal laying around. Thanks for responding.

My father used to talk about throwing sawdust into the clutch to stop it from chattering. They would eventually come back to his Dad's shop too. This would be 80-85 years ago.

Dean.

layback40 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:16 am

CaptainDean wrote:

My father used to talk about throwing sawdust into the clutch to stop it from chattering. They would eventually come back to his Dad's shop too. This would be 80-85 years ago.

Dean.

Banana skins was a common one over here. Then STP oil treatment came along. 2 cans in a diff made it quiet for about 1,000 miles.
More recently I heard of some one using 'stern tube' oil. Its very thick & sticky. It shuts a diff up better than STP & for longer.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

I don't like getting beat up, but here I am again in the barrel. Got a little exhaust leak that I have never said anything about because I thought I knew all about it. Once again -- NOT.

Dug into the machine today to fix it knowing the turbo would be the worst part -- NOT. :banghead:

Tried to pull off the exhaust manifold but the head of an allen bolt on the belt-driven viscous-heater was in the way.

Tried to remove the viscous heater but I had put the two mounting bolts in the wrong holes.

This is one mistake I made after having the engine apart for over a year. When I noticed it, I thought "...I won't have to go in here for a long time, so let it stay as-is..." Wrong judgement there! :banghead:

Had to take off the timing belt cover to get access to the head of the bolt. That means taking off the idler pulleys for the serpentine fan belt. :banghead:

Finally got the exhaust manifold off but could not see any sign of a leak. At least the underside of the heat shield does have some soot on it -- but not very much.

So, is there anything else I should be looking at that would sound like an exhaust manifold gasket leak?

The engine makes a loud tick on acceleration but it only sounds like one cylinder. (Exhaust manifold gasket leaks sound rather metallic when they are small.)

There was not evidence at the exhaust manifold, so checked the tightness of the injectors. They are tight too.

My next sobering thought is maybe one exhaust valve lifter did not get situated correctly. Before I go there, I'd like some support from all the Gurus out there.
(If a lifter is not pumping up, will it eventually pump up?)
(If an exhaust valve lifter is not in place, would it make this noise?)

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:55 pm

Dean, before you start tearing everything apart, you need to pinpoint the exact location of the leak.
One of the best ways to find a small exhaust leak is to get a short piece of tubing like a piece of fuel line or similar flexible tubing and hold it up to your ear on one end and use the other end to move around the engine and exhaust area to pinpoint the leak location. Used this trick for many years! You can also use a mechanics stethoscope if you have one to the same end.
Also an exhaust leak should be leaving lots of tell-tell signs of carbon dusting wherever it is leaking.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Thanks for the tip WWDiesel,

As it happens, the beast is already apart and I'm starting to put things back together. Got the bolts in the right places now on the viscous heater and a new serpentine fan belt.

Tomorrow I'll loosen the viscous heater and get the exhaust manifold and turbo back on. If the noise is still there, I will use the small tube listening method.

Even though the injector bolts are good and tight, could one of them still be leaking? The engine runs good as is.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:29 am

CaptainDean wrote:

Thanks for the tip WWDiesel,
As it happens, the beast is already apart and I'm starting to put things back together. Got the bolts in the right places now on the viscous heater and a new serpentine fan belt.
Tomorrow I'll loosen the viscous heater and get the exhaust manifold and turbo back on. If the noise is still there, I will use the small tube listening method.
Even though the injector bolts are good and tight, could one of them still be leaking? The engine runs good as is.
Dean.

If an injector seal is leaking, you should see some signs of carbon buildup in the hole I would think.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

WWDiesel wrote:

CaptainDean wrote:

Even though the injector bolts are good and tight, could one of them still be leaking? The engine runs good as is.
Dean.

If an injector seal is leaking, you should see some signs of carbon buildup in the hole I would think.

Took some pictures of each injector. Looks like #3 may be leaking a little. I'll take it out, clean the copper seal and put it back in.

Injector #1

Injector #2

Injector #3

Injector #4

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Pulled out injector #3 and cleaned both the port and the injector. Replaced the copper seal. The old seal looks like it had a wire from the rotary wire brush I used to clean the ports.

The Tap-Tap-Tap noise is still there. Now I'm suspecting it will be a lifter. When the engine comes up to accelerating shifting speed, the noise goes away. That sounds like a lifter needing more oil pressure. :banghead:

...or maybe a foreign object restricting oil into one lifter.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

JieselDeep wrote:

I think there's a thread (with pictures) around here somewhere on testing the lifters. You might check into it, from all I've read here, they are suspect at any time, and especially any time you've have occasion to open the engine that far anyway...

I'm suspicious of my own rockers and lifters...and valves...but it hasn't been bad enough yet for me to pull the head. Also, quite frankly, that part intimidates me a bit, which is part of the reason is like to see what all you're up to over there. Nothing teaches like experience and i just don't have that much 4 cycle engine experience, yet!

WWDiesel wrote:

You can buy the cam followers without buying the hydraulic adjusters. I really recommend buying a full set. I don't want to be spending your money, but even on fixed income, I don't think it's worth risking one failing and taking out a cam. or worse. You can see ones that have already failed, but not ones that are fatigued and ready to fail.

CaptainDean wrote:

I read your warnings and suggestions, and am considering them seriously.

I had one cylinder fail, including one valve that got sucked in, and one that got mashed. I changed all four valves but only found one rocker arm split. Unfortunately all the rocker arms and lifters were in a pile, and not in any order to retain the identity of which cylinder or valve they were associated with.

After over an hour of close inspection and fiddling, I managed to identify the one clip and one lifter that were assembled with the one broken rocker arm. One clip was snapped on one side. One lifter was much looser than the others as though the spring had been mashed.

At this time I am feeling confident that replacing one lifter/rocker/clip assembly will be good. However, tomorrow or next evening I will check the remaining rockers with a dial indicator to see if any are tweaked.

I've come to terms with having to pull the valve cover/cam assembly off to replace the entire set of lifters.

This CarParts.com won't ship to Hawaii. Anyone out there like to receive this shipment then forward them to me?
https://www.carparts.com/basket?ai=true
This is an entire set of new lifters for $147 + $6 shipping + $33 handling = $186

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Today I ordered the set of lifters by sending them to my sister in Sunnyvale, CA. She will forward them to me.
https://www.carparts.com/basket?ai=true This is an entire set of new lifters for $147 + $6 shipping + $33 handling = $186

In the meantime, what is a good oil or oil additive to use to quiet that one lifter while I wait for the new set to arrive and install them.

Also, is there a high volume/high pressure oil pump available for this engine? Replacing the oil pump is actually easier than replacing the lifters.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

I wanted to bookmark another thread that discussed lifters as we typically call them, but they are actually Hydraulic Lash Adjusters. Here's the thread...
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80307&hilit=hydraulic+valve+lash+adjuster#wrapheader

Are there other threads that discuss hydraulic lash adjusters?

Ordered new engine mounts from IDParts. They should arrive during this next week. I'm finally tired of listening to the rattle at idle.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:42 am

CaptainDean wrote:

Today I ordered the set of lifters by sending them to my sister in Sunnyvale, CA. She will forward them to me.
https://www.carparts.com/basket?ai=true This is an entire set of new lifters for $147 + $6 shipping + $33 handling = $186
In the meantime, what is a good oil or oil additive to use to quiet that one lifter while I wait for the new set to arrive and install them.
Also, is there a high volume/high pressure oil pump available for this engine? Replacing the oil pump is actually easier than replacing the lifters.
Dean.

Dean, I am a believer in Marvel Mystery Oil!
I add a pint to the engine at every oil change.
Seems to make the engine run a little bit quieter.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Thanks WWDiesel,

I believe in Marvel Mystery Oil too. It's sweet smell of Spearmint is a dead give-away to Spearmint's capacity to soften rubber parts. It must help seals stay alive. Maybe it has some Kerosene in it to that helps clean parts while in motion. I need to add a quart of oil anyway so I may as well top off with Marvel Mystery Oil. Thanks for the timely advise.

Dean.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

CaptainDean wrote:

GordnadoCRD wrote:

Bolts and TC took care of the noise? All issues are now gone? Hopefully you can find some comfort in knowing everything you've done, and confidence, knowing it was done with attention to detail rather than attention to the clock.

Thank you GordnadoCRD. The Jeep is much healthier now although I have two noises remaining. The original "clinking and clanking" noise is much smaller but not gone. The TC bolts are holding -- thank you. I believe the only thing not replaced is the motor and transmission mounts. I picked up and shook the motor mounts from the 2006 *other* engine and they rattled like WWDiesel's "...bunch of loose bolts rattling around in a coffee can...". That was a serious epiphany toward accepting my motor mounts as the final culprit.

The other noise is the rear ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing which I have not mentioned before. The Jeep died at the mechanic's shop last week while he was attempting to listen to the rear end. After fixing the broken wire and unconnected ground wire, he finally heard the howls and whines from the aft pumpkin. I'm sure I'll have to do the front 3rd member as well, but it can wait.

In high school (about a hundred years ago) I replaced the ring and pinion gears & pinion bearing my gold 1964 327 4-speed El Camino. It worked but you could witness the Doppler effect as that vehicle passed. This time I'll have a professional do it, or get a used 3.73 ratio rear end locally.

Dean.

Replaced the motor mounts today. Upon removing the old ones I checked them and they do not rattle at all in my hand. They feel solid and healthy. The ones from the *other 2006 engine* easily rattle when shaken; I do not believe that I would have put my old ones back in if they felt sloppy.

After changing the mounts, I started the engine and "...Voilà !...", a quiet idle! The phrase "...run silent, run deep..." drifted through my head.

Somehow, I do not feel like this is the last time I will change the motor mounts. They still clatter a bit on startup and shutdown. Seems kinda cheesy for brand new diesel engine motor mounts. Are there better choices out there?

I should be good for 50-75 thousand miles though.

Dean.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:10 am

Glad you're finally getting some enjoyable use out of her.

These motor mounts are the noisiest I've come across when they start going bad. Can't understand why ones with hydraulic fluid inside would make so much racket, but new ones can make a surprising difference.

Mine still has the original trans mount though. Going to change that soon.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

There are several YouTube videos about stiffening motor and transmission mounts with Polyurethane. Some use a liquid mix (polyurethane & hardener) others used windshield installation sealant in a tube (like tubes of silicone sealant).

Of all the videos this one is most knowledgeable, the others are backyard hacks. They all seem productive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYzL-IXqiSY

What are your thoughts on doing this? I would guess they fall apart soon.

Dean.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:53 pm

CaptainDean wrote:

There are several YouTube videos about stiffening motor and transmission mounts with Polyurethane. Some use a liquid mix (polyurethane & hardener) others used windshield installation sealant in a tube (like tubes of silicone sealant).
Of all the videos this one is most knowledgeable, the others are backyard hacks. They all seem productive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYzL-IXqiSY
What are your thoughts on doing this? I would guess they fall apart soon.
Dean.

Interesting, thanks for posting Dean.
Doing this on a gasser might be ok, but on a diesel I would be very concerned of transmitting way to much noise and vibration from the engine into the chassis and ultimately into the cabin. Am I thinking wrong on this?

layback40 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:43 pm

The mounts are a steal from Mercedes. In about 1986 MB started using fluid filled mounts like these in their diesel cars. Looks like when MB & Chrysler got into bed, the technology transferred. I would not be replacing the fluid with some mastic.

CaptainDean · **Joined:** Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am **Posts:** 693

Dug into the beast today to replace the hydraulic lash adjusters. The parts arrived 2 weeks ago and I did not think they looked correct - they looked big.

Today I confirmed that they actually are the wrong parts.

I will contact CarParts.com and arrange an exchange/return.

[Edit -- Added later...]

Called CarParts.com to arrange a return. They are crediting my card with the full purchase price, but they don't want the old parts back. These are for a 2005 Jeep Liberty Sport 2.4L engine. If anybody have use for them let me know.

Dean.

Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking

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